Hi,
Lets suppose, I want to use Squeak on a regular basis for the following tasks, how could I possibly go around achieving my goals?
1. Web surfing (not too heavy, mostly googling around) 2. EMails (lots of them, filtering, PGP would be great ;) [handling around 300 mails a day] 3. Telnet (thats one of the most important things in my life :) [is there SSH available too??] <grin> 4. Document preparation (usually LaTeX, would like some way to view .ps files) 5. Journal keeping (pure text, almost 8 years of data, need some encryption technique, certainly wouldn't want my to-be wife to read _some_ of those entries ;) 6. A bit of music (mostly MP3) 7. A bit of drawing (mostly rough concept drawings done while on the move) 8. PIM (Schedules, AddressBook)
~Mayuresh
Hi!
--- Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@vsnl.com wrote:
Hi,
Lets suppose, I want to use Squeak on a regular basis for the following tasks, how could I possibly go around achieving my goals?
- Web surfing (not too heavy, mostly googling around)
Hmmm, Scamper is there but... :-) I usually have Galeon or Mozilla up in parallell. This is one area that Squeak will have a hard time to handle unless the code by Jon Hylands get's cleaned up by someone... Or someone would integrate the Gecko engine as a plugin - someone mentioned that the other day.
- EMails (lots of them, filtering, PGP would be great ;) [handling around 300 mails a day]
Check! No problem. I use "stock" Celeste and it works superb. The new and improved FilterCeleste scales even better as I understand it. PGP is coming right as we speak obviously. Eh... GPG? :-)
We are a bunch of users so new features tend to popup in this area.
- Telnet (thats one of the most important things in my life :)
Check! There is a telnet client. I don't know how good it is, I don't use it but I think it is useable.
[is there SSH available too??] <grin>
No, but we really should write a plugin for SSL/SSH... Perhaps someday. We might need it in a project of ours so...
- Document preparation (usually LaTeX, would like some way to view .ps files)
Oops. Viewing Postscript is one complex job. But sure, perhaps someone could write some fancy plugin for ghostscript!? :-)
Btw, I use Lout instead of LaTeX (same but better IMHO) and a nice Lout preparation environment in Squeak should be easy to produce - I mean, hey, it's just text with tags! :-)
By using OSProcess you could probably quite easy whip up some form of authoring environment that just calls TeX or Lout when it comes to compile some output.
- Journal keeping (pure text, almost 8 years of data, need some encryption technique, certainly wouldn't want my to-be wife to read _some_ of those entries ;)
Well, we got encryption so a little journal app should be easy to build. And since Scott Crosby recently produced a nice text indexing package for very fast text searching that would be a perfect fit.
- A bit of music (mostly MP3)
Check! Already there, SqueakAMP - works superb and looks cool!
- A bit of drawing (mostly rough concept drawings done while on the move)
Check! Try Ned Konz "Connectors" - they are perfect for that and can generate Postscript.
- PIM (Schedules, AddressBook)
Well, nothing there now apart from some PDA playstuff (I think).
~Mayuresh
regards, G�ran
===== G�ran Hultgren, goran.hultgren@bluefish.se GSM: +46 70 3933950, http://www.bluefish.se "Department of Redundancy department." -- ThinkGeek
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards� http://movies.yahoo.com/
Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@vsnl.com is claimed by the authorities to have written:
Hi,
Lets suppose, I want to use Squeak on a regular basis for the following tasks, how could I possibly go around achieving my goals?
- Web surfing (not too heavy, mostly googling around)
Currently just possible but not good for many websites; they rely on badly written javascript, terribly mangled html and probably even worse java. Many sites do terribly things with tables.
Scamper is amazing in that it works at all but it needs a great deal of work to come close to what most web users would consider a first class browsing experience. The effort would be large to make much improvement; consuder how much work goes into Mozilla or internet exploder or even the smaller browsers like Opera. Even assming we can do fives times better - because after all we're better people with a better system to work on - it still adds up to a lot of work.
- EMails (lots of them, filtering, PGP would be great ;) [handling around 300 mails a day]
Celeste is pretty good but not very pretty. That could be fixed.
- Telnet (thats one of the most important things in my life :) [is there SSH available too??] <grin>
I think telnet is there but ssh is not. I could be wrong. I don't think there is currently any support for secure socket stuff.
- Document preparation (usually LaTeX, would like some way to view .ps files)
No idea
- Journal keeping (pure text, almost 8 years of data, need some encryption technique, certainly wouldn't want my to-be wife to read _some_ of those entries ;)
There's a file system; you could store files in a suitable directory structure. You could use a locally hosted swiki. Many good options here.
- A bit of music (mostly MP3)
See MPegPlayer.
- A bit of drawing (mostly rough concept drawings done while on the move)
There are options ranging from using or extendingthe painter for morphs to HotDraw to Ned's connectors to doing a new one.
- PIM (Schedules, AddressBook)
See class PDA
tim
Tim Rowledge tim@sumeru.stanford.edu wrote:
Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@vsnl.com is claimed by the authorities to have written:
- Telnet (thats one of the most important things in my life :) [is there SSH available too??] <grin>
I think telnet is there but ssh is not. I could be wrong.
Has telnet support improved recently ?
Hmm..... TelnetMachine open. Nope.
Of course, there's the old adage that supporting telnet is not the same as providing useful terminal emulation. If you look at the comments for TelnetMachine you'll see it says:
"The beginnings of a telnet terminal,"
It'll probably stay that way until someone actually needs it to be better and can spend the time to make it better. (Wish I knew enough myself to do it... but not yet %-( )
Also see: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1523
Unless you could use David Lewis' CommandShell & OSProcess to get what you need (I've never used them so I don't know if they can do that - be a telnet substitute ?)
-Andy-
On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Andy Stoffel wrote:
//snip//
Unless you could use David Lewis' CommandShell & OSProcess to get what you need (I've never used them so I don't know if they can do that - be a telnet substitute ?)
Seems not, although I've not got the very latest version. With an Xterm I get:
john@molehole:~ > telnet localhost Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. Welcome to SuSE Linux 6.4 (i386) - Kernel 2.2.14 (4).
molehole login: john Password: Last login: Tue Mar 26 10:10:14 from console Have a lot of fun...
Lieberman's Law: Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
john@molehole:~ > exit logout Connection closed by foreign host.
With Squeak shell:
$ telnet localhost Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
Connection closed by foreign host.
(All further experimentation will cease till I get SuSE 8.0 and a new hard drive!)
Cheers
John
On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 04:28:09PM -0500, Andy Stoffel wrote:
Of course, there's the old adage that supporting telnet is not the same as providing useful terminal emulation. If you look at the comments for TelnetMachine you'll see it says:
Unless you could use David Lewis' CommandShell & OSProcess to get what you need (I've never used them so I don't know if they can do that - be a telnet substitute ?)
See today's Felix Franz vt100Telnet post, which is probably what you are looking for.
A CommandShell ("Squeak shell") can be used to open a telnet session in an operating system window. On Windows, use the command "telnet&", and on unix, "xterm -e telnet somehost&". CommandShell does not do terminal emulation (such as vt100), so something like vt100Telnet is required to do it properly within Squeak.
Dave
Hi,
If you have observed, most of them are Morphic oriented stuff. Can't there be something for a lightweight MVC stuff?
From: Tim Rowledge tim@sumeru.stanford.edu
- EMails (lots of them, filtering, PGP would be great ;)
[handling around 300 mails a day]
Celeste is pretty good but not very pretty. That could be fixed.
Stuck up with Morphic :(
- Telnet (thats one of the most important things in my life :)
[is there SSH available too??] <grin>
I think telnet is there but ssh is not. I could be wrong. I don't think there is currently any support for secure socket stuff.
Again, I think stuck up with Morphic :( Could you show me how to use it?
- Journal keeping (pure text, almost 8 years of data, need some
encryption technique, certainly wouldn't want my to-be wife to read _some_ of those entries ;)
There's a file system; you could store files in a suitable directory structure. You could use a locally hosted swiki. Many good options here.
I could use any of the options above, but the most important features are: Search (full text, dates, keywords) Encryption (there is the to-be wife factor to be considered ;)
- A bit of music (mostly MP3)
See MPegPlayer.
How do I use that? Hope thats not Morphic
- A bit of drawing (mostly rough concept drawings done while on
the move)
There are options ranging from using or extendingthe painter for morphs to HotDraw to Ned's connectors to doing a new one.
Hmnn...
- PIM (Schedules, AddressBook)
See class PDA
I think even that is stuck up with Morphic...
~Mayuresh
Mayuresh ,
What's with the stuck with morphic talk?
Of course you're not stuck with morphic. Just write your own code using whatever you want to use. You can always just write some assembler if you want to.
Jim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mayuresh Kathe" mayuresh@vsnl.com To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Squeak for everyday use??
Hi,
If you have observed, most of them are Morphic oriented stuff. Can't there be something for a lightweight MVC stuff?
From: Tim Rowledge tim@sumeru.stanford.edu
- EMails (lots of them, filtering, PGP would be great ;)
[handling around 300 mails a day]
Celeste is pretty good but not very pretty. That could be fixed.
Stuck up with Morphic :(
- Telnet (thats one of the most important things in my life :)
[is there SSH available too??] <grin>
I think telnet is there but ssh is not. I could be wrong. I don't think
there
is currently any support for secure socket stuff.
Again, I think stuck up with Morphic :( Could you show me how to use it?
- Journal keeping (pure text, almost 8 years of data, need some
encryption technique, certainly wouldn't want my to-be wife to read _some_ of those entries ;)
There's a file system; you could store files in a suitable directory structure. You could use a locally hosted swiki. Many good options here.
I could use any of the options above, but the most important features are: Search (full text, dates, keywords) Encryption (there is the to-be wife factor to be considered ;)
- A bit of music (mostly MP3)
See MPegPlayer.
How do I use that? Hope thats not Morphic
- A bit of drawing (mostly rough concept drawings done while on
the move)
There are options ranging from using or extendingthe painter for morphs
to
HotDraw to Ned's connectors to doing a new one.
Hmnn...
- PIM (Schedules, AddressBook)
See class PDA
I think even that is stuck up with Morphic...
~Mayuresh
Woops, did I p*** someone off? I am sorry.
But frankly, Morphic *is* really heavy on resources. Isn't it? :)
~Mayuresh
From: "Jim Benson" jb@speed.net
Mayuresh ,
What's with the stuck with morphic talk?
Of course you're not stuck with morphic. Just write your own code using whatever you want to use. You can always just write some assembler if you want to.
Jim
Woops, did I p*** someone off? I am sorry.
But frankly, Morphic *is* really heavy on resources. Isn't it? :)
Here's my opinion. I don't think there is much to the morphic approach that is intrinsically heavier on resources than any other approach (and I assume this is the comparison most people care about here).
There is lots of extra baggage in morphic right now because lots of people are adding stuff, and have done so for half a decade. I personally have gone on about three crusades to make things run faster in morphic, only to discover that things I made efficient on the last go-round had been defeated again by recently added features. [this is not an accusation, but an illustration of Squeak's current state of non-optimization]
This is an inevitable characteristic of evolving, and especially multi-authored and under-documented, projects.
In fact morphic is frequently lean on memory resources compared to MVC's saved bitmaps behind every window (you can turn these off, but then things flash a lot). Numerous features such as rounded corners, and rounded scroll bars and the like force Morphic to do a lot of extra work, but these situations, too, can be dealt with any time we decide things are stable long enough to merit some serious performance tuning.
Also, we have long forgotten and, because we are not yet using the module system we have not yet relearned, that morphic by itself is not all that large. I recently built a real-world commercial application about which I will tell all in a week. I chose to do it in morphic, and I was delighted to find how much could be thrown away, and how adequately things performed with a modicum of tweaking. I test it on a used 133MHz Windoze laptop.
So, I would answer that, as it comes, and if you use the expensive and untuned options, yes, morphic is a bit of a resource hog. But I would add that, given some real-world application that you want to deliver, morphic can fairly easily be tweaked to MVC-level performance in speed and space with not more than a couple of man-weeks' effort by a knowledgeable and performance-passionate Squeaker.
YMMV of course...
- Dan
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
If you have observed, most of them are Morphic oriented stuff. Can't there be something for a lightweight MVC stuff? [...] I think even that is stuck up with Morphic...
There could be, but Morphic is nicer, newer, and generally more fun, so that's where almost all active development with GUI apps goes on now. One could write similar tools for MVC, or modify the existing to work in both Morphic and MVC, but I doubt that there are going to be many people jumping at that opportunity, seeing how Morphic is where most people work.
Any particular reason you don't want Morphic-based tools?
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "life, probably the biggest word i've ever said, that says a lot, because there's a whole lot of words inside my head.." :: atmosphere
Please don't get me wrong.
Morphic *does* look nice (way neater than pure MVC). But, it _does_ take up a lot of resources (processor, memory) which could be used for more constructive use.
Sorry, no offense meant towards anyone's work.
Regards,
~Mayuresh
From: Aaron J Reichow reic0024@d.umn.edu
Any particular reason you don't want Morphic-based tools?
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
Please don't get me wrong.
Morphic *does* look nice (way neater than pure MVC). But, it _does_ take up a lot of resources (processor, memory) which could be used for more constructive use.
Sorry, no offense meant towards anyone's work.
I didn't ask because I was offended, I'm just honestly curious on what kind of target you want to run Squeak. Morphic does take up more resources than MVC, but it seems to perform sufficiently on a goodly amount of hardware available today. I seems mostly fast enough on an iPAQ running at 206 MHz with 16 MB of RAM. 206 MHz is still pretty fast though. Planning on running Squeak on some 486s?
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "if i don't stay true to live and hate, how do i differentiate between chasing cream and chasing dreams" :: atmosphere
- A bit of music (mostly MP3)
See MPegPlayer.
How do I use that? Hope thats not Morphic
Check out http://www.bobjectsinc.com/squeakamp/ . Yep, it's Morphic. Squeak without Morphic is like a day without sunshine.
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
- Web surfing (not too heavy, mostly googling around)
Scamper is the web browser in Squeak currently. It is very bare-bones. Even a small, textmode browser like Links does quite a bit more. Unforuntately, a lot of sites now a days are very feature heavy- JS, Java, funky tables and the like. Luckily, the kinds of things I read on-line look OK in browsers like Scamper and Dillo, but I imagine I'm a minority and that respect.
One promising lead is Jon Hyland's MediaView- http://www.huv.com/smalltalk/browser.html
As time goes by, this lead seems less promising, however. He's not had the time to tidy and fileOut the code thus far, and my attempts to contact him to see if some other arragement could be reached (a third-party doing the code clean-up, or distributing the old image sans clean-up), but I've not recieved any responses.
- EMails (lots of them, filtering, PGP would be great ;) [handling around 300 mails a day]
It seems a fair amount of people use Celeste and like it. No PGP now, but that could be added.
- Telnet (thats one of the most important things in my life :) [is there SSH available too??] <grin>
There is TelnetMachine, a very primitive telnet client. Can't handle much in the way of terminal emulation though, I am guessing running something like emacs would be out of the question.
On the Squeak IRC channel (#squeak on irc.openprojects.net), someone was talking about a VT100 emulator on which they were working. I can't recall his nick, but if you're reading this, please pipe up. :) IIRC, it had features enough to run emacs over a telnet connection and display it decently. A SSH backend could be added to it, I imagine, although that hasn't been done yet, AFAIK.
- Document preparation (usually LaTeX, would like some way to view .ps files)
See the "Document Crafting, Objectively" thread in the archive. Lots of jibberjabbering about this. No real tools yet, although I'd love something LaTeX-ish for creating docs for print in Squeak.
- Journal keeping (pure text, almost 8 years of data, need some encryption technique, certainly wouldn't want my to-be wife to read _some_ of those entries ;)
It would be pretty easy to create a journal browser that stored journal entries in a hierarchical manner. Doesn't exist yet.
- A bit of music (mostly MP3)
There's an MP3 player in Squeak.
- A bit of drawing (mostly rough concept drawings done while on the move)
There are some painting tools in Squeak, but to my knowledge, nothing for vector drawing yet.
- PIM (Schedules, AddressBook)
There's a class PDA. As a part of my Dynapad PDA Environment, I plan on creating a nicer set of PIM tools. Eventually at http://spe.sf.net.
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "life, probably the biggest word i've ever said, that says a lot, because there's a whole lot of words inside my head.." :: atmosphere
This one sure is promising, whoa, I was totally blown out. Why isn't PARC releasing it? It would be a great tool for all of us.
Probably heavy weights like Alan Kay, Dan Ingalls, et all could help the Squeak community out here?
~Mayuresh
From: Aaron J Reichow reic0024@d.umn.edu
One promising lead is Jon Hyland's MediaView- http://www.huv.com/smalltalk/browser.html
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
This one sure is promising, whoa, I was totally blown out. Why isn't PARC releasing it? It would be a great tool for all of us.
Probably heavy weights like Alan Kay, Dan Ingalls, et all could help the Squeak community out here?
Well, I do'nt think it's PARC's to release. Or was Interval owned by Xerox? In any case, I think he has permission to release it, I don't know of the Smalltalk big-guns would do much good in the way of trying to pressure Jon into releasing it. I think the guy is just busy or MIA for the time being.
Someone (Karl, I think) said that the code was up on Jon's server, for a while, but the link I was given no longer works. Did anyone happen to mirror the image that was up for download?
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "a system based on exchanging products inevitably channels wealth to a few, and no governmental change will ever be able to correct that." :: daniel quinn
Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@vsnl.com is claimed by the authorities to have written:
This one sure is promising, whoa, I was totally blown out. Why isn't PARC releasing it?
Because PARC doesn't have the tiniest bit to do with it. Jon's browser was written on Interval Research's time and he got permission to release it after the project was canned, just like a lot of the stuff Craig & I have been able to release. PARC hasn't had a lot to do with Smalltalk in a long, long, long time.
tim
Your DynaPad seems interesting (the concept), would you keep the list posted?
~Mayuresh
From: Aaron J Reichow reic0024@d.umn.edu
There's a class PDA. As a part of my Dynapad PDA Environment, I plan on creating a nicer set of PIM tools. Eventually at http://spe.sf.net.
On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:57:47 -0600 (CST), Aaron J Reichow reic0024@d.umn.edu wrote:
One promising lead is Jon Hyland's MediaView- http://www.huv.com/smalltalk/browser.html
As time goes by, this lead seems less promising, however. He's not had the time to tidy and fileOut the code thus far, and my attempts to contact him to see if some other arragement could be reached (a third-party doing the code clean-up, or distributing the old image sans clean-up), but I've not recieved any responses.
Andrew (and everyone else),
I apologize for not getting back to you on this -- I looked back, and sure enough the email from you is in my inbox... My excuse is I just (after 5 months with no work) got a new contract in Florida, and getting down here and getting set up has been a major hassle.
Anyways, I did release my web browser quite a while ago -- just after Smalltalk Solutions last year, in fact. I heard not a peep from anyone about it, so I figured no-one was interested.
I've just in a past couple months gotten emails from two people (one of them was yourself) about it. The reason it is not on my server anymore is the zip file was 12 MB, and I was exceeding my space quota, and something had to go, and since no-one seemed to care one way or the other, I just deleted it from the server.
Unfortunately, given that the code was written in 1997, and Squeak has changed a small amount since then, it doesn't work very well. I started porting it to work in Morphic last year, but the new layout stuff didn't seem to work very well, and I just stopped working on it...
If people are interested, I will make an effort in the next couple weeks to work on the code again, and get it into a state where at least you can file it into a 3.2 or 3.3 image to work on it...
Later, Jon
-------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Hylands Jon@huv.com http://www.huv.com/jon
Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) http://www.huv.com
You mean to say that browser of yours does not use Morphic??
Wow, thats cool, and thats an awesome piece of work, I should say... Hats off to you.
Will the browser work on a image which has been MajorShrink(ed)? (Just MVC)
If not Morphic, what did you use to create the UI?
Eagerly awaiting your reply.
~Mayuresh
From: Jon Hylands jon@huv.com
Unfortunately, given that the code was written in 1997, and Squeak has changed a small amount since then, it doesn't work very well. I started porting it to work in Morphic last year, but the new layout stuff didn't seem to work very well, and I just stopped working on it...
If people are interested, I will make an effort in the next couple weeks to work on the code again, and get it into a state where at least you can file it into a 3.2 or 3.3 image to work on it...
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:35:15 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@vsnl.com wrote:
If not Morphic, what did you use to create the UI?
The browser was written for a highly modified version of Squeak, back around version 2.4 or something like that (whatever was current in 1997). Morphic wasn't really even usable back then, so I didn't even consider using it.
The web pages were all drawn directly on the window. I used modified Paragraph objects to display the text.
We (at Interval) had our own windowing system, our own graphics primitives, and so on.
All of the layout will need to be redone. I have started on that, but it needs many many hours of work.
Later, Jon
-------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Hylands Jon@huv.com http://www.huv.com/jon
Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) http://www.huv.com
Could you try doing a MajorShrink on your 3.0 image? And then probably try and get the browser to work with that?
That would pave the way for really using Squeak in embedded internet access devices.
I am an absolute newbie and have now restarted efforts at learning ST, I think I should get on full speed within a month, then I'll start writing an email reader for MVC.
Again, great work, and hope you manage to get the browser working on MVC.
Eagerly awaiting your reply.
~Mayuresh
From: Jon Hylands jon@huv.com
The browser was written for a highly modified version of Squeak, back around version 2.4 or something like that (whatever was current in 1997). Morphic wasn't really even usable back then, so I didn't even consider using it.
The web pages were all drawn directly on the window. I used modified Paragraph objects to display the text.
We (at Interval) had our own windowing system, our own graphics primitives, and so on.
All of the layout will need to be redone. I have started on that, but it needs many many hours of work.
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:14:48 +0530, Mayuresh Kathe mayuresh@vsnl.com wrote:
Could you try doing a MajorShrink on your 3.0 image? And then probably try and get the browser to work with that?
No, I don't think so. If someone else wants to do that, that works fine with me.
The majority of Squeak users work in Morphic. Any reasonable embedded device is going to have lots of RAM, and lots of FLASH file space. There will be some that don't, of course, but I'm not going to penalize the 99% who do by not using Morphic.
Later, Jon
-------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Hylands Jon@huv.com http://www.huv.com/jon
Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) http://www.huv.com
Jon Hylands jon@huv.com is claimed by the authorities to have written:
We (at Interval) had our own windowing system, our own graphics primitives, and so on.
Actually IIRC it was more like _four_ systems with little agreement as to which one was to be used, how to design etc. It was a classic case of a project starting up without any seriously experienced practitioners and getting into all sorts of problems that then need clearing up. Of course, you then have issues with the 'originals' feeling that their stuff is perfect and the 'laters' claiming it isn't and so on.
Moral of the story; hire me at the beginning of the project, not halfway through. :-)
tim
Jon --
This would be really great! Thanks!
Cheers, Alan
----
At 7:28 PM -0500 3/26/02, Jon Hylands wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:57:47 -0600 (CST), Aaron J Reichow reic0024@d.umn.edu wrote:
One promising lead is Jon Hyland's MediaView- http://www.huv.com/smalltalk/browser.html
As time goes by, this lead seems less promising, however. He's not had the time to tidy and fileOut the code thus far, and my attempts to contact him to see if some other arragement could be reached (a third-party doing the code clean-up, or distributing the old image sans clean-up), but I've not recieved any responses.
Andrew (and everyone else),
I apologize for not getting back to you on this -- I looked back, and sure enough the email from you is in my inbox... My excuse is I just (after 5 months with no work) got a new contract in Florida, and getting down here and getting set up has been a major hassle.
Anyways, I did release my web browser quite a while ago -- just after Smalltalk Solutions last year, in fact. I heard not a peep from anyone about it, so I figured no-one was interested.
I've just in a past couple months gotten emails from two people (one of them was yourself) about it. The reason it is not on my server anymore is the zip file was 12 MB, and I was exceeding my space quota, and something had to go, and since no-one seemed to care one way or the other, I just deleted it from the server.
Unfortunately, given that the code was written in 1997, and Squeak has changed a small amount since then, it doesn't work very well. I started porting it to work in Morphic last year, but the new layout stuff didn't seem to work very well, and I just stopped working on it...
If people are interested, I will make an effort in the next couple weeks to work on the code again, and get it into a state where at least you can file it into a 3.2 or 3.3 image to work on it...
Later, Jon
Jon Hylands Jon@huv.com http://www.huv.com/jon
Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) http://www.huv.com
--
Jon Hylands wrote:
Anyways, I did release my web browser quite a while ago -- just after Smalltalk Solutions last year, in fact. I heard not a peep from anyone about it, so I figured no-one was interested.
I was interested, but when I saw it was not hooked up to morphic I had a hard time understanding it, as I only know morphic and not mvc.
Unfortunately, given that the code was written in 1997, and Squeak has changed a small amount since then, it doesn't work very well. I started porting it to work in Morphic last year, but the new layout stuff didn't seem to work very well, and I just stopped working on it...
If people are interested, I will make an effort in the next couple weeks to work on the code again, and get it into a state where at least you can file it into a 3.2 or 3.3 image to work on it...
This seems to be a great effort.
Karl
hi Jon
have you made a call for project? May be people around would like to participate. I look at it but I'm bad in morphic and the core morph is not consistent with different coordinate system. But your browser was really impressive so this would be really interesting to resurrect it.
Stef
Jon Hylands wrote:
Anyways, I did release my web browser quite a while ago -- just after Smalltalk Solutions last year, in fact. I heard not a peep from anyone about it, so I figured no-one was interested.
I was interested, but when I saw it was not hooked up to morphic I had a hard time understanding it, as I only know morphic and not mvc.
Unfortunately, given that the code was written in 1997, and Squeak has changed a small amount since then, it doesn't work very well. I started porting it to work in Morphic last year, but the new layout stuff didn't seem to work very well, and I just stopped working on it...
If people are interested, I will make an effort in the next couple weeks to work on the code again, and get it into a state where at least you can file it into a 3.2 or 3.3 image to work on it...
This seems to be a great effort.
Karl
Jon Hylands jon@huv.com writes:
If people are interested, I will make an effort in the next couple weeks to work on the code again, and get it into a state where at least you can file it into a 3.2 or 3.3 image to work on it...
Jon - yes please.
Thanks, -Simon
Aaron J Reichow wrote:
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
- Web surfing (not too heavy, mostly googling around)
Scamper is the web browser in Squeak currently. It is very bare-bones. Even a small, textmode browser like Links does quite a bit more. Unforuntately, a lot of sites now a days are very feature heavy- JS, Java, funky tables and the like. Luckily, the kinds of things I read on-line look OK in browsers like Scamper and Dillo, but I imagine I'm a minority and that respect.
One promising lead is Jon Hyland's MediaView- http://www.huv.com/smalltalk/browser.html
As time goes by, this lead seems less promising, however. He's not had the time to tidy and fileOut the code thus far, and my attempts to contact him to see if some other arragement could be reached (a third-party doing the code clean-up, or distributing the old image sans clean-up), but I've not recieved any responses.
I have a image with it loaded, but changes corruped :-( And I have a change set with it but it will not file in :-(
Anybody interested ?
Karl
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Karl Ramberg wrote:
As time goes by, this lead seems less promising, however. He's not had the time to tidy and fileOut the code thus far, and my attempts to contact him to see if some other arragement could be reached (a third-party doing the code clean-up, or distributing the old image sans clean-up), but I've not recieved any responses.
I have a image with it loaded, but changes corruped :-( And I have a change set with it but it will not file in :-(
Anybody interested ?
Someone was kind enough to email me a copy of the original archive Jon sent out to the list. He's planning on packaging it up soon, but until then, I'll make it available- I'll send a link out when I've access to my computer later this evening.
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies." :: r. w. emerson
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