Hi,
I just published a first version of Pier (formerly called SmallWiki 2) on SqueakMap, it is still an unofficial and incomplete version, but it is closer to release than ever. Some things are still missing or incomplete (such as a proper and fully functional persistency, lots of tests, query engine is probably too complex ...), but that will certainly improve!
The package includes all the requirements to use Pier within a 3.8 image, probably it also works in 3.7 and 3.9. The installer will ask in the beginning if Seaside should be installed, if you tell so, it will automatically go through all the requirements and load DynamicBindings, KomServices, KomHttpServer, Seaside and Scriptaculous. Then Magritte will be loaded and finally Pier.
Start Seaside using "WAKom startOn: 8888" and fire up a browser on "http://localhost:8888/seaside/pier" to play with the system ...
Now for those that have an existing image with code and a model inside they want to keep. That is possible as well of course, but it is not strait-forward: loading the new code from SqueakMap or Monticello won't work, because I renamed package- and class- prefixes. Copy the attached script to a workspace and follow the instructions step-by-step and everything will magically work. If you followed the naming conventions of SmallWiki 2 your code will be automatically updated as well, you just need to publish the new packages ;-)
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
Hi Lukas, Stef,
the Pier presentation and demo at the Bern Smalltalk Gathering was very impressive, thank you very much.
I've looked around for other such things and found only the (relatively new) buzzword "Codeless Development" (which google suggests to reword into "Wireless Development" ;) and a site with screen shots from a $$$ solution
http://www.codeless.com/ProductOverview/cde/modeler/
which is interesting in its own but far behind what Pier/Magritte/Seaside promises: software (and other multimedia) composition :)
Thanks again, will install Pier on my test server (3.8) next week.
/Klaus
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:04:17 +0100, stéphane ducasse ducasse@iam.unibe.ch wrote:
Hi,
I just published a first version of Pier (formerly called SmallWiki 2) on SqueakMap, it is still an unofficial and incomplete version, but it is closer to release than ever. Some things are still missing or incomplete (such as a proper and fully functional persistency, lots of tests, query engine is probably too complex ...), but that will certainly improve!
The package includes all the requirements to use Pier within a 3.8 image, probably it also works in 3.7 and 3.9. The installer will ask in the beginning if Seaside should be installed, if you tell so, it will automatically go through all the requirements and load DynamicBindings, KomServices, KomHttpServer, Seaside and Scriptaculous. Then Magritte will be loaded and finally Pier.
Start Seaside using "WAKom startOn: 8888" and fire up a browser on "http://localhost:8888/seaside/pier" to play with the system ...
Now for those that have an existing image with code and a model inside they want to keep. That is possible as well of course, but it is not strait-forward: loading the new code from SqueakMap or Monticello won't work, because I renamed package- and class- prefixes. Copy the attached script to a workspace and follow the instructions step-by-step and everything will magically work. If you followed the naming conventions of SmallWiki 2 your code will be automatically updated as well, you just need to publish the new packages ;-)
I have been using SmallWiki2 and have totally love it ! So of course, I am really happy to see it's update, Pier, now available.
I grabbed a fresh copy of 3.9a 6704 and installed Pier from SM. Everything went as expected.
I started the server as described and every link gives this error:
MessageNotUnderstood: WARenderNotification>>raiseSignal
I will try a 3.8 image but I wanted to post this problem.
ALSO, I want to move my smallwiki2 data to Pier. How would I go about doing this? (please don't say cut and paste !) Where does Smallwiki2 store the data anyway??
Jason Hogue
On 20-Nov-05, at 5:58 AM, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
Hi Lukas, Stef,
the Pier presentation and demo at the Bern Smalltalk Gathering was very impressive, thank you very much.
I've looked around for other such things and found only the (relatively new) buzzword "Codeless Development" (which google suggests to reword into "Wireless Development" ;) and a site with screen shots from a $$$ solution
http://www.codeless.com/ProductOverview/cde/modeler/
which is interesting in its own but far behind what Pier/Magritte/ Seaside promises: software (and other multimedia) composition :)
Thanks again, will install Pier on my test server (3.8) next week.
/Klaus
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:04:17 +0100, stéphane ducasse ducasse@iam.unibe.ch wrote:
Hi,
I just published a first version of Pier (formerly called SmallWiki 2) on SqueakMap, it is still an unofficial and incomplete version, but it is closer to release than ever. Some things are still missing or incomplete (such as a proper and fully functional persistency, lots of tests, query engine is probably too complex ...), but that will certainly improve!
The package includes all the requirements to use Pier within a 3.8 image, probably it also works in 3.7 and 3.9. The installer will ask in the beginning if Seaside should be installed, if you tell so, it will automatically go through all the requirements and load DynamicBindings, KomServices, KomHttpServer, Seaside and Scriptaculous. Then Magritte will be loaded and finally Pier.
Start Seaside using "WAKom startOn: 8888" and fire up a browser on "http://localhost:8888/seaside/pier" to play with the system ...
Now for those that have an existing image with code and a model inside they want to keep. That is possible as well of course, but it is not strait-forward: loading the new code from SqueakMap or Monticello won't work, because I renamed package- and class- prefixes. Copy the attached script to a workspace and follow the instructions step-by-step and everything will magically work. If you followed the naming conventions of SmallWiki 2 your code will be automatically updated as well, you just need to publish the new packages ;-)
I started the server as described and every link gives this error:
MessageNotUnderstood: WARenderNotification>>raiseSignal
This is very strange, seems to be a problem with Seaside: in my image I have a method in the Seaside-Package
Exception>>raiseSignal ^ self signal
Maybe you should try to reload the latest Seaside from the SqueakSource repository.
I will try a 3.8 image but I wanted to post this problem.
I am developing in 3.8, if you don't want to be surprised with undiscovered problems you should probably try this one.
ALSO, I want to move my smallwiki2 data to Pier. How would I go about doing this? (please don't say cut and paste !)
See my original announcement in the SmallWiki mailing list, it includes migration code to keep your code and all your data alive while upgrading from SmallWiki 2 to Pier ...
http://impara.de/pipermail/smallwiki/2005-November/002691.html
Where does Smallwiki2 store the data anyway??
Objects, that all live happily in the Squeak image ;-)
Pier was designed to have a prevalence like persistency: this means it consists of a snapshot mechanism and the logging facilities for command-objects. Command objects are the key thing, since this is the only way to modify the model. There is some experimental code (that already proved to work) but that is not tested in real environments and that is still lacking some features.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
FWIW I'm getting exactly the same problem on a 3.8 image with the latest version of Seaside (I even reloaded it as suggested).
Lukas Renggli wrote:
I started the server as described and every link gives this error:
MessageNotUnderstood: WARenderNotification>>raiseSignal
This is very strange, seems to be a problem with Seaside: in my image I have a method in the Seaside-Package
Exception>>raiseSignal ^ self signal
Maybe you should try to reload the latest Seaside from the SqueakSource repository.
I will try a 3.8 image but I wanted to post this problem.
I am developing in 3.8, if you don't want to be surprised with undiscovered problems you should probably try this one.
ALSO, I want to move my smallwiki2 data to Pier. How would I go about doing this? (please don't say cut and paste !)
See my original announcement in the SmallWiki mailing list, it includes migration code to keep your code and all your data alive while upgrading from SmallWiki 2 to Pier ...
http://impara.de/pipermail/smallwiki/2005-November/002691.html
Where does Smallwiki2 store the data anyway??
Objects, that all live happily in the Squeak image ;-)
Pier was designed to have a prevalence like persistency: this means it consists of a snapshot mechanism and the logging facilities for command-objects. Command objects are the key thing, since this is the only way to modify the model. There is some experimental code (that already proved to work) but that is not tested in real environments and that is still lacking some features.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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On 11/24/05, Simon Kirk simon.kirk@pinesoft.co.uk wrote:
FWIW I'm getting exactly the same problem on a 3.8 image with the latest version of Seaside (I even reloaded it as suggested).
Ok, I found the problem. I loaded the RefactoringBrowser into my development image and this removes the method Exception class>>raiseSignal from the Seaside package that is bundled with Magritte :-/
Reload Magritte-1.0.5 from SqueakMap or simply load the latest version of Seaside from http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
Lukas Renggli wrote:
On 11/24/05, Simon Kirk simon.kirk@pinesoft.co.uk wrote:
FWIW I'm getting exactly the same problem on a 3.8 image with the latest version of Seaside (I even reloaded it as suggested).
Ok, I found the problem. I loaded the RefactoringBrowser into my development image and this removes the method Exception class>>raiseSignal from the Seaside package that is bundled with Magritte :-/
Reload Magritte-1.0.5 from SqueakMap or simply load the latest version of Seaside from http://www.squeaksource.com/Seaside.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
Hi Lucus - thanks for the pointer. Sadly reloading Magritte-1.0.5 from SqueakMap didn't fix the problem.
As for the latest version of Seaside, do you mean the latest 2.5 version? Or the latest 2.6?
S
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Hi Lucus - thanks for the pointer. Sadly reloading Magritte-1.0.5 from SqueakMap didn't fix the problem.
Really strange, I just tried in a 3.9 image and it works for me. Did you update and clear the caches of SquakMap, maybe it loaded the same file again?
As for the latest version of Seaside, do you mean the latest 2.5 version? Or the latest 2.6?
Pier and Magritte require the very latest Seaside versions, this means that you should load Seaside2.6a2-avi.64 ...
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
Hi again - just a quick followup to say: I made sure I had the very latest 2.6 version as you described and Pier is perfectly happy now. Many thanks! S
Lukas Renggli wrote:
Hi Lucus - thanks for the pointer. Sadly reloading Magritte-1.0.5 from SqueakMap didn't fix the problem.
Really strange, I just tried in a 3.9 image and it works for me. Did you update and clear the caches of SquakMap, maybe it loaded the same file again?
As for the latest version of Seaside, do you mean the latest 2.5 version? Or the latest 2.6?
Pier and Magritte require the very latest Seaside versions, this means that you should load Seaside2.6a2-avi.64 ...
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
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On Nov 28, 2005, at 2:40 AM, Simon Kirk wrote:
Hi again - just a quick followup to say: I made sure I had the very latest 2.6 version as you described and Pier is perfectly happy now. Many thanks! S
To make this process a bit easier, I've now updated the 2.6a release for Seaside on SqueakMap. The new one should, AFAIK, be fine for use with Pier.
Avi
Hi,
in a quest for the ultimate wiki I looked at Pier and tried to look at Smallwiki and Swiki.
Unluckily the last two didn't install with the can't find EOCD error and:
Download from original url (http://map.squeak.org/accountbyid/f477504f-bc7d-4b7e-9eba-47adfe27abbc/files...) failed with this exception: Incorrect SHA checksum of file from orginal URL Trying server cache instead. (SWServer is Undeclared) Fetch: 68 ms Size: 8 bytes Download from original url (http://map.squeak.org/accountbyid/a6930213-b578-49b1-862e-228cc5ab39e7/files...) failed with this exception: Incorrect SHA checksum of file from orginal URL Trying server cache instead.
So I downloaded the readymade Swiki.
I'm a bit nervous with Pier as an Application that stores data without a serialization possibility. And it does not have the "Links to this page" tool which I really like from minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak.
Which gives the question "How do I get all the links to a page?" A short test with Swiki didn't show them.
Torsten
Unluckily the last two didn't install with the can't find EOCD error and:
That's probably a problem of SqueakMap, I had it too several times today.
I'm a bit nervous with Pier as an Application that stores data without a serialization possibility.
Pier has got a built in prevalence like persistency mechanism (snapshot and logging). Keep in mind that Pier is in an early alpha stage, right now I am experimenting with the persistency framework within the image to see how it might work.
The real persistency back-ends will come later. There are plenty of possibilities: reference streams, image segments, xml serialization (this will be all very simple and probably the default), goods, omnibase, magma (object databases could also be a possibility, but there might be some problems doing the snapshots), relational-databases (yeah, that should also be possible, but first i need someone making magritte sql-aware), ...
And it does not have the "Links to this page" tool which I really like from minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak.
Of course Pier has this, you just have to add PRReferencesWidget to your environment.
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
Hi torsten
pay attention that: SmallWiki I is a wiki :) there is a stable version on squeaksource (I do not know if samir published it on squeakmap as I suggested) but the version on squeakmap is unstable
Smallwiki + no seaside (I mean if you want to serve thousand of users, it may be a concern) + good model + extremely stable on VW (we used the same image since nearly the beginning and got may be on crash) + some people introduce a better back-end (impara)
Pier (the dead SmallWiki II) is much more than a wiki and is more a plug for seside applications Pier + seaside + brand new meta-model Magritte + new security model + same object model (but meta-described) + rethought of SmallWiki one - in beta
Stef
Thank you,
for now I will be pragmatic and simply use ComSwiki with an eye on Pier. Its intended for workgroup collaboration with my colleagues and I don't yet know if they will take to the Wiki idea.
Is there a possibility to get the Squeak-Swiki design? The "Links to this page" is really a feature.
Cheers, Torsten
P.S. One stupid question Lukas:
Of course Pier has this, you just have to add PRReferencesWidget to your environment.
How do I do this?
On Thu, 8 Dec 2005, ducasse wrote:
Hi torsten
pay attention that: SmallWiki I is a wiki :) there is a stable version on squeaksource (I do not know if samir published it on squeakmap as I suggested) but the version on squeakmap is unstable
Smallwiki + no seaside (I mean if you want to serve thousand of users, it may be a concern) + good model + extremely stable on VW (we used the same image since nearly the beginning and got may be on crash) + some people introduce a better back-end (impara)
Pier (the dead SmallWiki II) is much more than a wiki and is more a plug for seside applications Pier + seaside + brand new meta-model Magritte + new security model + same object model (but meta-described) + rethought of SmallWiki one - in beta
Stef
Is there a possibility to get the Squeak-Swiki design? The "Links to this page" is really a feature.
Yes, this is possible. Pier is build from dynamically composed (Seaside) components, it is possible to have any design ...
Of course Pier has this, you just have to add PRReferencesWidget to your environment.
How do I do this?
1. Select the page 'Environment' and hit 'Edit'.
2. Add a new embedded link to the wiki-page, I added mine to the right of the contents (+References+), that results in a wiki-string looking like:
+Header+ <table class="body"><tr><td class="boxes">+Views+<br />+Commands+<br />+Tree+</td><td class="spacer"></td><td class="contents">+Contents+</td><td class="spacer"></td><td class="boxes">+References+</td></tr></table>
(btw, it would also be possible to replace the the html-table with a pure wiki-table, however the result looks better if you do it manually)
3. As you will see in the resulting view, the newly created link points to a non-existing place (it is red), click on it to create a new structure.
4. Keep the suggested title and select 'Component' as 'Type', hit save.
5. In the appearing edit-pane select 'References' as 'Component Class' to tell Pier what component it should place there, hit save.
Cheers, Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
Thank you,
it works.
If there now would just be an administration app for 1000+ Students per semester... :-))
Cheers, Torsten
On Fri, 9 Dec 2005, Lukas Renggli wrote:
Is there a possibility to get the Squeak-Swiki design? The "Links to this page" is really a feature.
Yes, this is possible. Pier is build from dynamically composed (Seaside) components, it is possible to have any design ...
Of course Pier has this, you just have to add PRReferencesWidget to your environment.
How do I do this?
Select the page 'Environment' and hit 'Edit'.
Add a new embedded link to the wiki-page, I added mine to the right
of the contents (+References+), that results in a wiki-string looking like:
+Header+
<table class="body"><tr><td class="boxes">+Views+<br />+Commands+<br />+Tree+</td><td class="spacer"></td><td class="contents">+Contents+</td><td class="spacer"></td><td class="boxes">+References+</td></tr></table>
(btw, it would also be possible to replace the the html-table with a pure wiki-table, however the result looks better if you do it manually)
- As you will see in the resulting view, the newly created link
points to a non-existing place (it is red), click on it to create a new structure.
Keep the suggested title and select 'Component' as 'Type', hit save.
In the appearing edit-pane select 'References' as 'Component Class'
to tell Pier what component it should place there, hit save.
Cheers, Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
If there now would just be an administration app for 1000+ Students per semester... :-))
Philippe Marschall is building a security framework around Pier. I don't know if it can handle 1000+ students, but that would certainly be a good use-case ;-)
Lukas
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
On 12-Dec-05, at 7:14 AM, Torsten Sadowski wrote:
If there now would just be an administration app for 1000+ Students per semester... :-))
Well there is a seaside app for *testing* and grading students, so maybe that would save some time and make it possible for you to write the admin part.
tim
If there now would just be an administration app for 1000+ Students per semester... :-))
Could you tell us about your needs a bit more in detail? I'm not only talking about the administration part alone, but also if you have any idea how to add 1000 users to a system. I guess this must be automated somehow.
The requirements need a bit of explanation.
I'm working as a Ph.D. student in the Mechanical Engineering Institute of the TU Berlin. Part of my job is teaching ME to undergraduate students. The teaching is not a problem but the University, the Faculty of Engineering and not even the institute have a centralized system for course management. Every working group in the institute has its own system where the students can register themselves and log in for the courses. The university wide system was planned, partly paid for and then abandoned for political reasons.
What is needed are two more or less independent systems, one for registering students to courses and one for grading students in courses. Both are perfectly illegal after the german "Datenschutzgesetz".
Application 1 Registration: -Students create accounts for themselve -Students change account data -Students enroll for courses -Students decide otherwise and take themselves out of the couse list (before the start of the semester, must be logged) -Students register for exams -Students can view their grades
Application 2 Administration (and grading) -Teachers can access their course lists -Teachers can mass mail to one or more courses or to selected students -Teachers can grade students -the course administrator defines a grading system -Teachers can view a students history (courses and grades) -all data has to be persistent at least until the students graduation -all data must be accessible without the running server -automatic printing of course certificates
Teachers are completely trustworthy and students can only change their personal data and view their grades.
If the Registration is done somewhere else, the Administration needs some import capability (CSV).
As a solution is not inside and because I'm not even in a position to decide on a system for the institute look at the smily below and only do something if my requirements meet your goal.
Cheers, Torsten
P.S. How does your university handle student administration?
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005, Philippe Marschall wrote:
If there now would just be an administration app for 1000+ Students per semester... :-))
Could you tell us about your needs a bit more in detail? I'm not only talking about the administration part alone, but also if you have any idea how to add 1000 users to a system. I guess this must be automated somehow.
Sounds like a couple of days' worth of work if you'd make a Seaside app out of it.
On 12/13/05, Torsten Sadowski moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de wrote:
The requirements need a bit of explanation.
Sounds like a couple of days' worth of work if you'd make a Seaside app out of it.
Or a couple of hours' worth of work if you'd make a Pier app out of it.
-- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch
Possibly - still have to look at Pier (it was a bit too big and too undocumented last time I looked ,)). My point was that the context of Wiki´s wasn´t entirely clear to me here.
On 12/13/05, Lukas Renggli renggli@gmail.com wrote:
Or a couple of hours' worth of work if you'd make a Pier app out of it.
As in many discussions the topic drifted away. The Wiki problem is solved for the moment with a ComSwiki as a workgroup notepad.
Cheers, Torsten
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Cees De Groot wrote:
Possibly - still have to look at Pier (it was a bit too big and too undocumented last time I looked ,)). My point was that the context of Wiki´s wasn´t entirely clear to me here.
On 12/13/05, Lukas Renggli renggli@gmail.com wrote:
Or a couple of hours' worth of work if you'd make a Pier app out of it.
2005/12/13, Torsten Sadowski moehl@akaflieg.extern.tu-berlin.de:
The requirements need a bit of explanation.
I'm working as a Ph.D. student in the Mechanical Engineering Institute of the TU Berlin. Part of my job is teaching ME to undergraduate students. The teaching is not a problem but the University, the Faculty of Engineering and not even the institute have a centralized system for course management. Every working group in the institute has its own system where the students can register themselves and log in for the courses. The university wide system was planned, partly paid for and then abandoned for political reasons.
What is needed are two more or less independent systems, one for registering students to courses and one for grading students in courses. Both are perfectly illegal after the german "Datenschutzgesetz".
Application 1 Registration: -Students create accounts for themselve -Students change account data -Students enroll for courses -Students decide otherwise and take themselves out of the couse list (before the start of the semester, must be logged) -Students register for exams -Students can view their grades
Application 2 Administration (and grading) -Teachers can access their course lists -Teachers can mass mail to one or more courses or to selected students -Teachers can grade students -the course administrator defines a grading system -Teachers can view a students history (courses and grades) -all data has to be persistent at least until the students graduation -all data must be accessible without the running server -automatic printing of course certificates
Teachers are completely trustworthy and students can only change their personal data and view their grades.
If the Registration is done somewhere else, the Administration needs some import capability (CSV).
As a solution is not inside and because I'm not even in a position to decide on a system for the institute look at the smily below and only do something if my requirements meet your goal.
Wow. No sorry there's nothing specific for your case in Pier right now. However I think it should not be too hard to implement a simple solution in either Seasie or Pier/Magritte _if_ you know them.
P.S. How does your university handle student administration?
Uh, don't ask ;) The University would like us to use WebCT, but it sucks. In general each course does it his way. We have a very small Seaside (Mewa) app and I'm experimenting with dabble.
I've got also this problem. And I forgot my mailman password which I can't get mailed to me.
Herbert, could you check in your delayed mails where they did hang around? Maybe the squeakfoundations server has been blacklisted somewhere. Please reply to me personally and to the list for the records.
Cheers, Torsten
Hello Torsten,
send this off list too and if you need more details, mail me off list.
I attach the headers of a mail I got 5 days after it was sent, maybe it helps.
The most plausible explanation for me was what Cees pointed out under "Update mailing list trouble", that squeak dev landed on a blacklist named SORBS and Some providers do not deliver mail from IP addresses listed there.
Someone else (Göran? can't find the post) pointed out that gmx (my provider) also had squeak dev blacklisted. I survived by reading through gmane's web interface and now I'm up to date again.
Cheers
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
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