The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
this sounds quite cool Now I would like to know how do you sort the symbols. (I know that romain completion package is smarter that the default alt-q since he is paying attention to instance variables and also methods defined in the class (if I'm not wrong).
Now roel showed use a simple bytecode analyser that guess quite well the type of instance variables and this is on my to do list to port it to Squeak. )
So can you tell us more.
Stef
On 28 nov. 04, at 21:32, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
Stef, Thanks for your feedback.
The instance variable types are only detected in the Debugger, as a context is provided. In the case of Browser, Workspace etc. only "type suggesting" names do the job. But for instance variables this is not something people use.
I planed to add the guessing of instance variables types for the next version in the following way: Analyze the initialize method with the RBParser. You see a solution in analyzing the bytecode, is this what is working in Dolphin Completion?
If you pass some pointers, I would very happy to try it out and eventually integrate it in eCompletion.
Ruben
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:19:28 +0100, you wrote:
this sounds quite cool Now I would like to know how do you sort the symbols. (I know that romain completion package is smarter that the default alt-q since he is paying attention to instance variables and also methods defined in the class (if I'm not wrong).
Now roel showed use a simple bytecode analyser that guess quite well the type of instance variables and this is on my to do list to port it to Squeak. )
So can you tell us more.
Stef
On 28 nov. 04, at 21:32, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
hi ruben
I hope that we will have soon the simple typer of roel so we could get already some nice type information for instance variables.
Stef, Thanks for your feedback.
The instance variable types are only detected in the Debugger, as a context is provided. In the case of Browser, Workspace etc. only "type suggesting" names do the job. But for instance variables this is not something people use.
strange because each time you send a message to an instance variable you would like to have a smart completion too. For local variables I guess that a good heuristics to find the class is to look for what is in front of a new method :). Are you doing that?
I planed to add the guessing of instance variables types for the next version in the following way: Analyze the initialize method with the RBParser. You see a solution in analyzing the bytecode, is this what is working in Dolphin Completion?
I do not know. roel coded what he did in SOUL (kind of prolog) and hard-coded it in VisualWorks and his demoe last week was nice so I want to have that in squeak.
If you pass some pointers, I would very happy to try it out and eventually integrate it in eCompletion.
on cincom store you have a package called roel typer ro something like that. All the code is available (ie one class and its tests :))
Ruben
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:19:28 +0100, you wrote:
this sounds quite cool Now I would like to know how do you sort the symbols. (I know that romain completion package is smarter that the default alt-q since he is paying attention to instance variables and also methods defined in the class (if I'm not wrong).
Now roel showed use a simple bytecode analyser that guess quite well the type of instance variables and this is on my to do list to port it to Squeak. )
So can you tell us more.
Stef
On 28 nov. 04, at 21:32, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
Hi,
eCompletion is really nice, especially for someone like me learning the environment (in small doses), thanks.
Regarding instance variable names, I think it would be useful, in the absence of any ability to "inferr" the type to try to auto-complete variable names based on first few letters typed.
Let's say in Eclipse/Java I have, two classes on the Classpath starting with "My"
MyClass1 MyClass2
Let's say I want to type
MyClass1 myClass1 = new MyClass();
After typing "My" I can ask for autocomplete which will give me choice of (MyClass1, MyClass2). When completed to MyClass1, I can type "m" and autocomplete will give me "myClass1" as variable name (etc). Saves a lot of typing, all it takes is about 5-7 keystrokes to type the whole line. Quite helpful and makes an argument about having to "say" the static type less valid.
Perhaps an equivalent would be useful in eCompletion: If I want
| myClass1 | myClass1 := MyClass1 new.
, after typing "| my" I would get a selection of (myClass1, myClass2) as variable name. After autocompletion of the "| myClass1 |", things would continue as they do now, autocompleting the "myClass1 := MyClass1 new." Similarly if I want
|aMyClass1| aMyClass1 := MyClass1 new.
, after typing "| aMy" the equivalent autocomplete selection could be displayed by guessing by existing class names from first capital "My" in the string "aMy".
Not sure how useful this would be, I often use variables named by their class name.
Thanks Milan
(This could work in Workspace as well, autocompleting from "my" to "myClass1")
On November 28, 2004 04:33 pm, Ruben Bakker wrote:
Stef, Thanks for your feedback.
The instance variable types are only detected in the Debugger, as a context is provided. In the case of Browser, Workspace etc. only "type suggesting" names do the job. But for instance variables this is not something people use.
I planed to add the guessing of instance variables types for the next version in the following way: Analyze the initialize method with the RBParser. You see a solution in analyzing the bytecode, is this what is working in Dolphin Completion?
If you pass some pointers, I would very happy to try it out and eventually integrate it in eCompletion.
Ruben
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:19:28 +0100, you wrote:
this sounds quite cool Now I would like to know how do you sort the symbols. (I know that romain completion package is smarter that the default alt-q since he is paying attention to instance variables and also methods defined in the class (if I'm not wrong).
Now roel showed use a simple bytecode analyser that guess quite well the type of instance variables and this is on my to do list to port it to Squeak. )
So can you tell us more.
Stef
On 28 nov. 04, at 21:32, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:46:49 -0500, you wrote:
Hi Milan,
Thanks for taking your time and sending this nice input. I will consider it for a future version. And I agree, completion is about typing less...
Ruben
Hi,
eCompletion is really nice, especially for someone like me learning the environment (in small doses), thanks.
Regarding instance variable names, I think it would be useful, in the absence of any ability to "inferr" the type to try to auto-complete variable names based on first few letters typed.
Let's say in Eclipse/Java I have, two classes on the Classpath starting with "My"
MyClass1 MyClass2
Let's say I want to type
MyClass1 myClass1 = new MyClass();
After typing "My" I can ask for autocomplete which will give me choice of (MyClass1, MyClass2). When completed to MyClass1, I can type "m" and autocomplete will give me "myClass1" as variable name (etc). Saves a lot of typing, all it takes is about 5-7 keystrokes to type the whole line. Quite helpful and makes an argument about having to "say" the static type less valid.
Perhaps an equivalent would be useful in eCompletion: If I want
| myClass1 | myClass1 := MyClass1 new.
, after typing "| my" I would get a selection of (myClass1, myClass2) as variable name. After autocompletion of the "| myClass1 |", things would continue as they do now, autocompleting the "myClass1 := MyClass1 new." Similarly if I want
|aMyClass1| aMyClass1 := MyClass1 new.
, after typing "| aMy" the equivalent autocomplete selection could be displayed by guessing by existing class names from first capital "My" in the string "aMy".
Not sure how useful this would be, I often use variables named by their class name.
Thanks Milan
(This could work in Workspace as well, autocompleting from "my" to "myClass1")
On November 28, 2004 04:33 pm, Ruben Bakker wrote:
Stef, Thanks for your feedback.
The instance variable types are only detected in the Debugger, as a context is provided. In the case of Browser, Workspace etc. only "type suggesting" names do the job. But for instance variables this is not something people use.
I planed to add the guessing of instance variables types for the next version in the following way: Analyze the initialize method with the RBParser. You see a solution in analyzing the bytecode, is this what is working in Dolphin Completion?
If you pass some pointers, I would very happy to try it out and eventually integrate it in eCompletion.
Ruben
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:19:28 +0100, you wrote:
this sounds quite cool Now I would like to know how do you sort the symbols. (I know that romain completion package is smarter that the default alt-q since he is paying attention to instance variables and also methods defined in the class (if I'm not wrong).
Now roel showed use a simple bytecode analyser that guess quite well the type of instance variables and this is on my to do list to port it to Squeak. )
So can you tell us more.
Stef
On 28 nov. 04, at 21:32, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
Ruben, Thanks again for this work.
On December 2, 2004 08:14 am, Ruben Bakker wrote:
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:46:49 -0500, you wrote:
Hi Milan,
Thanks for taking your time and sending this nice input. I will consider it for a future version. And I agree, completion is about typing less...
Ruben
Hi,
eCompletion is really nice, especially for someone like me learning the environment (in small doses), thanks.
Regarding instance variable names, I think it would be useful, in the absence of any ability to "inferr" the type to try to auto-complete variable names based on first few letters typed.
Let's say in Eclipse/Java I have, two classes on the Classpath starting with "My"
MyClass1 MyClass2
Let's say I want to type
MyClass1 myClass1 = new MyClass();
After typing "My" I can ask for autocomplete which will give me choice of (MyClass1, MyClass2). When completed to MyClass1, I can type "m" and autocomplete will give me "myClass1" as variable name (etc). Saves a lot of typing, all it takes is about 5-7 keystrokes to type the whole line. Quite helpful and makes an argument about having to "say" the static type less valid.
Perhaps an equivalent would be useful in eCompletion: If I want
| myClass1 |
myClass1 := MyClass1 new.
, after typing "| my" I would get a selection of (myClass1, myClass2) as variable name. After autocompletion of the "| myClass1 |", things would continue as they do now, autocompleting the "myClass1 := MyClass1 new." Similarly if I want
|aMyClass1|
aMyClass1 := MyClass1 new.
, after typing "| aMy" the equivalent autocomplete selection could be displayed by guessing by existing class names from first capital "My" in the string "aMy".
Not sure how useful this would be, I often use variables named by their class name.
Thanks Milan
(This could work in Workspace as well, autocompleting from "my" to "myClass1")
On November 28, 2004 04:33 pm, Ruben Bakker wrote:
Stef, Thanks for your feedback.
The instance variable types are only detected in the Debugger, as a context is provided. In the case of Browser, Workspace etc. only "type suggesting" names do the job. But for instance variables this is not something people use.
I planed to add the guessing of instance variables types for the next version in the following way: Analyze the initialize method with the RBParser. You see a solution in analyzing the bytecode, is this what is working in Dolphin Completion?
If you pass some pointers, I would very happy to try it out and eventually integrate it in eCompletion.
Ruben
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 22:19:28 +0100, you wrote:
this sounds quite cool Now I would like to know how do you sort the symbols. (I know that romain completion package is smarter that the default alt-q since he is paying attention to instance variables and also methods defined in the class (if I'm not wrong).
Now roel showed use a simple bytecode analyser that guess quite well the type of instance variables and this is on my to do list to port it to Squeak. )
So can you tell us more.
Stef
On 28 nov. 04, at 21:32, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
hi
here is a simple feedback. It would be nice to remove the method categorie strings from the list of the potential candidates for the completion.
Stef
GREAT WORK! I installed it and immediately started to work with it. I love it! I just wanted to send you a note expressing my gratitude. I was almost on the verge of writing on of these myself, but I'm glad you beat me to it! Anyway, thanks for such a great tool! -- Blaine Buxton, Mad Scientist In Training My Amps: Smalltalk, Lisp, and Ruby http://www.blainebuxton.com
From: Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers listsqueak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: [ANN] eCompletion - code completion inspired by eclipse Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
_________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Great work
One error - there's no instance variable "completionMorph" in class StringHolder!
Pavel
Second error: TextMorph>>keyStroke: The test [editor model isCompletionMorphOpen] fails if the model is nil.
Pavel
Hi Ruben,
This looks like some nice work indeed. I hope that we will able to make one nice completion package you, Pavel and I ;-).
Cheers, Romain
On Nov 28, 2004, at 9:32 PM, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
The bug that you and Pavel reported is fixed. Please install the latest version from squeakmap. Have fun. Ruben
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:34:10 -0500, you wrote:
Hello, I have found one bug. If you try to save a Class Definition from the browser. I get a doesNotUnderstand message.
I have the RefactoringBrowser and Shout loaded. If you need any other information, let me know.
Here' the complete information from the log: MessageNotUnderstood: UndefinedObject>>isCompletionMorphOpen 28 November 2004 5:28:30 pm
VM: Win32 - a SmalltalkImage Image: Squeak3.7 [latest update: #5989]
SecurityManager state: Restricted: false FileAccess: true SocketAccess: true Working Dir C:\bbuxton\dev\squeak\current Trusted Dir C:\bbuxton\dev\squeak\current\owner Untrusted Dir C:\My Squeak\owner
UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #isCompletionMorphOpen Receiver: nil Arguments and temporary variables: aMessage: isCompletionMorphOpen Receiver's instance variables: nil TextMorphForShout(TextMorph)>>keyStroke: Receiver: a TextMorphForShout(3179) Arguments and temporary variables: evt: [keystroke 'Cmd-s'] action: nil completionAllowed: true Receiver's instance variables: bounds: 0@0 corner: 782@87 owner: a TransformMorph(3537) submorphs: #() fullBounds: 0@0 corner: 782@87 color: Color black extension: a MorphExtension (3730) borderWidth: 0 borderColor: Color black textStyle: a TextStyle Accujen12 text: a Text for 'Workspace subclass: #SonoraWorkspace instanceVariableNames: ...etc... wrapFlag: true paragraph: a NewParagraph editor: a TextMorphForShoutEditor container: nil predecessor: nil successor: nil backgroundColor: nil margins: nil editView: a PluggableShoutMorph(3289) acceptOnCR: false
TextMorphForShout(TextMorphForEditView)>>keyStroke: Receiver: a TextMorphForShout(3179) Arguments and temporary variables: evt: [keystroke 'Cmd-s'] view: a PluggableShoutMorph(3289) Receiver's instance variables: bounds: 0@0 corner: 782@87 owner: a TransformMorph(3537) submorphs: #() fullBounds: 0@0 corner: 782@87 color: Color black extension: a MorphExtension (3730) borderWidth: 0 borderColor: Color black textStyle: a TextStyle Accujen12 text: a Text for 'Workspace subclass: #SonoraWorkspace instanceVariableNames: ...etc... wrapFlag: true paragraph: a NewParagraph editor: a TextMorphForShoutEditor container: nil predecessor: nil successor: nil backgroundColor: nil margins: nil editView: a PluggableShoutMorph(3289) acceptOnCR: false
TextMorphForShout(TextMorph)>>handleKeystroke: Receiver: a TextMorphForShout(3179) Arguments and temporary variables: anEvent: [keystroke 'Cmd-s'] pasteUp: nil Receiver's instance variables: bounds: 0@0 corner: 782@87 owner: a TransformMorph(3537) submorphs: #() fullBounds: 0@0 corner: 782@87 color: Color black extension: a MorphExtension (3730) borderWidth: 0 borderColor: Color black textStyle: a TextStyle Accujen12 text: a Text for 'Workspace subclass: #SonoraWorkspace instanceVariableNames: ...etc... wrapFlag: true paragraph: a NewParagraph editor: a TextMorphForShoutEditor container: nil predecessor: nil successor: nil backgroundColor: nil margins: nil editView: a PluggableShoutMorph(3289) acceptOnCR: false
--- The full stack --- UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #isCompletionMorphOpen TextMorphForShout(TextMorph)>>keyStroke: TextMorphForShout(TextMorphForEditView)>>keyStroke: TextMorphForShout(TextMorph)>>handleKeystroke:
KeyboardEvent>>sentTo: TextMorphForShout(Morph)>>handleEvent: TextMorphForShout(Morph)>>handleFocusEvent: [] in HandMorph>>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: {[ActiveHand := self. ActiveEvent := anEvent. result := focusHolder han...]} [] in PasteUpMorph>>becomeActiveDuring: {[aBlock value]} BlockContext>>on:do: PasteUpMorph>>becomeActiveDuring: HandMorph>>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: HandMorph>>sendEvent:focus:clear: HandMorph>>sendKeyboardEvent: HandMorph>>handleEvent: HandMorph>>processEvents [] in WorldState>>doOneCycleNowFor: {[:h | ActiveHand := h. h processEvents. capturingGesture := capturingGest...]} Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: WorldState>>handsDo: WorldState>>doOneCycleNowFor: WorldState>>doOneCycleFor: PasteUpMorph>>doOneCycle [] in Project class>>spawnNewProcess {[[World doOneCycle. Processor yield. false] whileFalse. nil]} [] in BlockContext>>newProcess {[self value. Processor terminateActive]}
Hi Romain,
Yes, that would be nice!
In fact, without your help in form of your and Pavel's ideas and source code I wouldn't have done it. Many thanks for that.
Ruben
On Monday, November 29, 2004, at 11:44AM, Romain Robbes romain.robbes@lu.unisi.ch wrote:
Hi Ruben,
This looks like some nice work indeed. I hope that we will able to make one nice completion package you, Pavel and I ;-).
Cheers, Romain
On Nov 28, 2004, at 9:32 PM, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
yes this would be great if you all join forces to get a really cool auto completion system for squeak. (I'm not sure that I like the e in eCompletion but ... :-) )
Stef
On 29 nov. 04, at 11:44, Romain Robbes wrote:
Hi Ruben,
This looks like some nice work indeed. I hope that we will able to make one nice completion package you, Pavel and I ;-).
Cheers, Romain
On Nov 28, 2004, at 9:32 PM, Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
Have fun... Ruben
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion.
Nice work. I prefer the way alt-q puts spaces around selector keywords, and positions the cursor after the first keyword, so I modified this package to do the same. My version is at:
http://beta4.com/mc/ECompletion-avi.10.mcz
Cheers, Avi
Thanks for the great contribution, eCompletion is more complete now :). I'll put it on the SqueakMap as soon as I can.
Ruben
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:29:09 +0100, you wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion.
Nice work. I prefer the way alt-q puts spaces around selector keywords, and positions the cursor after the first keyword, so I modified this package to do the same. My version is at:
http://beta4.com/mc/ECompletion-avi.10.mcz
Cheers, Avi
Oddly, it was not listed as "eCompletion(1->1.2)" in SqueakMap Package Loader just 'eCompletion(1)', evetn after updating my local map. I just have installed package again and it is (1.2), but that is an inconsistancy and I am not sure the cause. Other packages seem fine, maybe someone forgot something.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Bakker" ruben_bakker@mac.com To: avi@beta4.com; "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [ANN] eCompletion - code completion inspired by eclipse
Thanks for the great contribution, eCompletion is more complete now :). I'll put it on the SqueakMap as soon as I can.
Ruben
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:29:09 +0100, you wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com
wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion.
Nice work. I prefer the way alt-q puts spaces around selector keywords, and positions the cursor after the first keyword, so I modified this package to do the same. My version is at:
http://beta4.com/mc/ECompletion-avi.10.mcz
Cheers, Avi
I tried to reproduce the problem and started with a fresh image. Unfortunatly everything works fine here. I installed the "1" version and then it was listed as eCompletion(1->1.2).
Maybe I should remove the unpublished (1.1) version? Ruben
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:29:28 -0800, you wrote:
Oddly, it was not listed as "eCompletion(1->1.2)" in SqueakMap Package Loader just 'eCompletion(1)', evetn after updating my local map. I just have installed package again and it is (1.2), but that is an inconsistancy and I am not sure the cause. Other packages seem fine, maybe someone forgot something.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Bakker" ruben_bakker@mac.com To: avi@beta4.com; "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [ANN] eCompletion - code completion inspired by eclipse
Thanks for the great contribution, eCompletion is more complete now :). I'll put it on the SqueakMap as soon as I can.
Ruben
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:29:09 +0100, you wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com
wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion.
Nice work. I prefer the way alt-q puts spaces around selector keywords, and positions the cursor after the first keyword, so I modified this package to do the same. My version is at:
http://beta4.com/mc/ECompletion-avi.10.mcz
Cheers, Avi
A comment from me: hook this into Browser -> find class =) Auto pop up there? Perhaps "auto show" when the new class code text is focused when a category is selected... No, too fine grained.
-Lyndon
Thanks for the input, I add it to the idea list. Ruben
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 22:39:10 -0800, you wrote:
A comment from me: hook this into Browser -> find class =) Auto pop up there? Perhaps "auto show" when the new class code text is focused when a category is selected... No, too fine grained.
-Lyndon
Your contribution is now merged with my version and available on SqueakMap. Ruben
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:29:09 +0100, you wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion.
Nice work. I prefer the way alt-q puts spaces around selector keywords, and positions the cursor after the first keyword, so I modified this package to do the same. My version is at:
http://beta4.com/mc/ECompletion-avi.10.mcz
Cheers, Avi
Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
eCompletion together with Shout surely is a BIG help for newbies, and even handy for oldbies, I guess ;-)
Support for MVC (aka PKI, Poor man Kernel Image), like Shout, would be a nice enhancement.
Thanks for completing eCompletion.
Cheers,
PhiHo.
Are there many of you doing PKI, without Morphic? I'm just curious: What hardware and squeak versions are you using, is it 3.7? Ruben
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 01:30:41 -0500, you wrote:
Ruben Bakker wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
eCompletion together with Shout surely is a BIG help for newbies, and even handy for oldbies, I guess ;-)
Support for MVC (aka PKI, Poor man Kernel Image), like Shout, would be a nice enhancement.
Thanks for completing eCompletion.
Cheers,
PhiHo.
Am 30.11.2004 um 18:21 schrieb Ruben Bakker:
Are there many of you doing PKI, without Morphic? I'm just curious:
No. There are a number of different "minimal" images floating around, some based on stripped morphic, some based on MVC. All are build using *really* old Squeak versions. (like 3.2).
PKI seems to be PhiHo's private image, I don't think that anyone else is using it. (But I'm happy to be corrected on that one)
Marcus
How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? It worth the effort, or is something that is passing away slowly? Maybe we need to distinguish between development and deployment. For deployment the image can be stripped but for development Morphic could be there... What do you think? Ruben
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:31:10 +0100, you wrote:
Am 30.11.2004 um 18:21 schrieb Ruben Bakker:
Are there many of you doing PKI, without Morphic? I'm just curious:
No. There are a number of different "minimal" images floating around, some based on stripped morphic, some based on MVC. All are build using *really* old Squeak versions. (like 3.2).
PKI seems to be PhiHo's private image, I don't think that anyone else is using it. (But I'm happy to be corrected on that one)
Marcus
Am 30.11.2004 um 22:41 schrieb Ruben Bakker:
How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? It worth the effort, or is something that is passing away slowly? Maybe we need to distinguish between development and deployment. For deployment the image can be stripped but for development Morphic could be there... What do you think?
Yes, and even for deployment: This is end of 2004. Even my notebook computer hat 2GB of RAM. Most people "deploying" Squeak apps (e.g. with seaside) don't strip the image, as it's a good idea to have the tools available in the deployment image for fixing bugs fast.
There might be some need for stripping if you are doing embedded stuff, but then you won't need the dev tools or use a setup like squat of resilient that allows to debug/browse over the net.
I don't think that MVC is that important: There are I think a bunch of people using it (sometime there are fixes submitted for MVC that even have been added to the release), but overall the number of people developing with MVC should be closer to zero than to 10.
So don't waste your time with MVC is you don't need this for yourself.
Marcus
Marcus Denker wrote:
Am 30.11.2004 um 22:41 schrieb Ruben Bakker:
How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? It worth the effort, or is something that is passing away slowly? Maybe we need to distinguish between development and deployment. For deployment the image can be stripped but for development Morphic could be there... What do you think?
Yes, and even for deployment: This is end of 2004. Even my notebook computer hat 2GB of RAM. Most people "deploying" Squeak apps (e.g. with seaside) don't strip the image, as it's a good idea to have the tools available in the deployment image for fixing bugs fast.
There might be some need for stripping if you are doing embedded stuff, but then you won't need the dev tools or use a setup like squat of resilient that allows to debug/browse over the net.
I don't think that MVC is that important: There are I think a bunch of people using it (sometime there are fixes submitted for MVC that even have been added to the release), but overall the number of people developing with MVC should be closer to zero than to 10.
So don't waste your time with MVC is you don't need this for yourself.
This makes perfect sense.
I don't expect the Croqueteers wasting time with Morphic/Squeak ;-)
Cheers,
PhiHo.
Marcus Denker wrote:
Am 30.11.2004 um 22:41 schrieb Ruben Bakker:
How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? It worth the effort, or is something that is passing away slowly? Maybe we need to distinguish between development and deployment. For deployment the image can be stripped but for development Morphic could be there... What do you think?
Yes, and even for deployment: This is end of 2004. Even my notebook computer hat 2GB of RAM. Most people "deploying" Squeak apps (e.g. with seaside) don't strip the image, as it's a good idea to have the tools available in the deployment image for fixing bugs fast.
There might be some need for stripping if you are doing embedded stuff, but then you won't need the dev tools or use a setup like squat of resilient that allows to debug/browse over the net.
I don't think that MVC is that important: There are I think a bunch of people using it (sometime there are fixes submitted for MVC that even have been added to the release), but overall the number of people developing with MVC should be closer to zero than to 10.
So don't waste your time with MVC is you don't need this for yourself.
This makes perfect sense.
I don't expect the Croqueteers wasting time with Morphic/Squeak ;-)
Cheers,
PhiHo.
Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? It worth the effort, or is something that is passing away slowly?
It would be perfectly ok with me for MVC to fade away (since it is pretty much abandoned anyway we don't have much choice) and be replaced. Of course it would be nice if the thing that replaced performed as rapidly as MVC does on slower machines like mine. I know that morphic does a lot more - or more corectly _can_ do a lot more - but it annoys me on a pretty regular basis that so much seems reeeeeaaaaallllyyyy ssssslllllloooooowwwwww. Drop into an MVC project and menu zing, typing is fast etc. Or at least it was until fairly recently when something seemed to slow down even MVC.
I realise I probably ought to be the one doing profiling but there's this slight problem of already too much to do combined with little knowledge of morphic as opposed to the lowlevel system.
tim -- Tim Rowledge, tim@sumeru.stanford.edu, http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim Strange OpCodes: GME: Generate Meaningless Error
On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 04:12:35PM -0800, Tim Rowledge wrote:
Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? It worth the effort, or is something that is passing away slowly?
It would be perfectly ok with me for MVC to fade away (since it is pretty much abandoned anyway we don't have much choice) and be replaced. Of course it would be nice if the thing that replaced performed as rapidly as MVC does on slower machines like mine. I know....
Those are two different questions.
1) How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? -- probably not important, unless somebody speaks up and says they care about it.
2) Is it OK for MVC to fade away? No. It matters to some people, including people who do not have a lot of money or who live in parts of the world where fancy computers and fast networks may not be easy to come by. Not to mention the occasional eccentric who might just happen to think it's interesting just because it's interesting. Squeak is full of interesting things, and I kind of like that.
Dave
Am 01.12.2004 um 04:42 schrieb David T. Lewis:
- Is it OK for MVC to fade away? No. It matters to some people,
including people who do not have a lot of money or who live in parts of the world where fancy computers and fast networks may not be easy to come by. Not to mention the occasional eccentric who might just happen to think it's interesting just because it's interesting. Squeak is full of interesting things, and I kind of like that.
It would be the best if MVC would be a package on SM in the case that it gets removed from the image...
on the other hand: If you make a new GUI framework, romoving the old one at some point is the way to go as you are *forced* to fix the shortcomings. We see this with morpic: It's bloated and slow because everyone did the easy thing (MVC) for those cases that required a small and fast framework.
Marcus
- Is it OK for MVC to fade away? No. It matters to some people, including people who do not have a lot of money or who live in parts of the world where fancy computers and fast networks may not be easy to come by. Not to mention the occasional eccentric who might just happen to think it's interesting just because it's interesting. Squeak is full of interesting things, and I kind of like that.
Dave
agreed
Stef
But may be you also want to invest in the future ;)
this may interest you and has been published on the tweak mailing-list
What is the greater plan for Tweak Vs. Morphic, that is, would we want to have a Squeak version that comes with Tweak instead of MVC+Morphic? I personally would like to see this happen as soon as possible...
Well, now that the proof of concept is complete we can look at the next steps. Personally, I think (partial) victory could be declared once the resulting image has no further obsolete references *AND* can reload and run Morphic/MVC. This mostly means making the basic packages (Kernel, Collections, Graphics, Compiler) Morphic/MVC clean by a) refactoring methods (moving them in extensions) and b) introduce a few required extra abstractions (for PopUpMenu, FITBM, and friends). For the latter, I think that having something like a simple indirection ala "UIManager default confirm: mumble" would be perfectly sufficient.
Then, there is still the tools issue. As you may have noticed I haven't put much work into getting the browsers up to par (simply a question of priorities) but having good tool support is crucial. I wonder if I can convince someone to get OmniBrowser or StarBrowser or any of those in Tweak...
Cheers, - Andreas
_______________________________________________ Tweak mailing list Tweak@impara.de http://impara.de/mailman/listinfo/tweak
Hi!
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?st=E9phane_ducasse?= ducasse@iam.unibe.ch wrote:
But may be you also want to invest in the future ;)
this may interest you and has been published on the tweak mailing-list
Oh, wasn't aware there even was such a list. :)
What is the greater plan for Tweak Vs. Morphic, that is, would we want to have a Squeak version that comes with Tweak instead of MVC+Morphic? I personally would like to see this happen as soon as possible...
Well, now that the proof of concept is complete we can look at the next steps. Personally, I think (partial) victory could be declared once the resulting image has no further obsolete references *AND* can reload and run Morphic/MVC. This mostly means making the basic packages (Kernel, Collections, Graphics, Compiler) Morphic/MVC clean by a) refactoring methods (moving them in extensions) and b) introduce a few required extra abstractions (for PopUpMenu, FITBM, and friends). For the latter, I think that having something like a simple indirection ala "UIManager default confirm: mumble" would be perfectly sufficient.
Yes, such a UIManager pattern was used in Stable Squeak btw - my article describing that is still up: http://anakin.bluefish.se/sqworld
Then, there is still the tools issue. As you may have noticed I haven't put much work into getting the browsers up to par (simply a question of priorities) but having good tool support is crucial. I wonder if I can convince someone to get OmniBrowser or StarBrowser or any of those in Tweak...
Hehe, well - how are the docs? :) I think that may matter.
Cheers,
- Andreas
cheers, Göran
On Tuesday 30 November 2004 22:42, David T. Lewis wrote:
Those are two different questions.
- Is it OK for MVC to fade away? No. It matters to some people, including people who do not have a lot of money or who live in parts of the world where fancy computers and fast networks may not be easy to come by.
And, it's those voices which we are unlikely to hear on this list because internet accessibility is not easy to come by. I favor the idea of having MVC as a package, but for these folks it would be nice to have a separate image with _just_ MVC -- but that's probably dreaming too much.
Hi!
Jason Rogers jacaetevha@fast-mail.org wrote:
On Tuesday 30 November 2004 22:42, David T. Lewis wrote:
Those are two different questions.
- Is it OK for MVC to fade away? No. It matters to some people, including people who do not have a lot of money or who live in parts of the world where fancy computers and fast networks may not be easy to come by.
And, it's those voices which we are unlikely to hear on this list because internet accessibility is not easy to come by. I favor the idea of having MVC as a package, but for these folks it would be nice to have a separate image with _just_ MVC -- but that's probably dreaming too much.
Hmmm, dreaming? Well, just "do it". :) I mean, "how hard can it be"? :) Perhaps taking Squat and putting MVC on top isn't hard. Eh... wait a minute - isn't that already the case in Squat?
Enough blabbering, where is my coffee...
regards, Göran
Ruben Bakker wrote:
How important is MVC for an extension as eCompletion? It worth the effort, or is something that is passing away slowly? Maybe we need to distinguish between development and deployment. For deployment the image can be stripped but for development Morphic could be there... What do you think?
I wrote:
"Support for MVC (aka PKI, Poor man Kernel Image), like Shout, would be a nice enhancement."
because it seems you like Shout and MVC has Shout.
I would say that MVC is not important at all.
For that matter Morphic would be obsolete anytime and replaced by Tweak and Squeak would be something of the past when Croquet is perfected ?
Thanks for asking
Cheers,
PhiHo.
Marcus Denker wrote:
Am 30.11.2004 um 18:21 schrieb Ruben Bakker:
Are there many of you doing PKI, without Morphic? I'm just curious:
No. There are a number of different "minimal" images floating around, some based on stripped morphic, some based on MVC. All are build using *really* old Squeak versions. (like 3.2).
PKI seems to be PhiHo's private image, I don't think that anyone else is using it. (But I'm happy to be corrected on that one)
By Poor man Kernel Image, I meant the major shrinked image.
My private image has just ProtoObject, Metaclass and supporting cast. ;-)
Cheers,
PhiHo.
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
I'm running Avi's version (ECompletion-avi.10), and it seems that Ctrl-i (explore it) does not work properly anymore. A self halt at TextMorph>>handleCompletionKeyStroke: indicates that the keyboard event keyValue is 9, shouldn't 9 be a tab instead?
I was able to reproduced it with version 1.2 published on SqueakMap (has Avi's extensions included). I'll solve the bug for the next version. Thanks for reporting the problem. Ruben
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:05:44 +0800, you wrote:
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:32:54 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
The package is available on the SqueakMap with the name eCompletion. More information can be found on this page: http://homepage.mac.com/monique_bakker/squeak/eCompletion.html.
I'm running Avi's version (ECompletion-avi.10), and it seems that Ctrl-i (explore it) does not work properly anymore. A self halt at TextMorph>>handleCompletionKeyStroke: indicates that the keyboard event keyValue is 9, shouldn't 9 be a tab instead?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 07:29:50 +0100, Ruben Bakker ruben_bakker@mac.com wrote:
I was able to reproduced it with version 1.2 published on SqueakMap (has Avi's extensions included). I'll solve the bug for the next version. Thanks for reporting the problem. Ruben
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:05:44 +0800, you wrote:
I'm running Avi's version (ECompletion-avi.10), and it seems that Ctrl-i (explore it) does not work properly anymore. A self halt at TextMorph>>handleCompletionKeyStroke: indicates that the keyboard event keyValue is 9, shouldn't 9 be a tab instead?
I have a slight variation up at http://motionobj.com/squeakmc/ECompletion-hboon.14.mcz . It
-disable tab key so that it does not activate tab completion (in order for default Explore shortcut to work) -make selector matching be case-insensitive (not sure if I missed any)
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:22:44 +0800, Yar Hwee Boon hboon@motionobj.com wrote:
I have a slight variation up at http://motionobj.com/squeakmc/ECompletion-hboon.14.mcz . It
-disable tab key so that it does not activate tab completion (in order for default Explore shortcut to work) -make selector matching be case-insensitive (not sure if I missed any)
Found a bug immediately after I sent, sorry. Fixed here: http://motionobj.com/squeakmc/ECompletion-hboon.15.mcz
Hi HweeBoon, Thank you very much for sending your version! I already fixed the Ctrl-I/Ctrl-Shift-I problem for 2.0. I'm not sure if the case-insensitive filtering will please everyone. Maybe a preference to turn it on is a solution. I will try it out and then decide about the preference. Ruben
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Avi Bryant -
Blaine Buxton -
David T. Lewis -
goran.krampe＠bluefish.se -
Jason Rogers -
Lyndon Tremblay -
Marcus Denker -
Milan Zimmermann -
Pavel Krivanek -
PhiHo Hoang -
Romain Robbes -
Ruben Bakker -
SmallSqueak -
stéphane ducasse -
Stéphane Rollandin -
Tim Rowledge -
Yar Hwee Boon