I want to create an addon using Squeak for a Computer Aided Design (CAD) software in Windows. That means that the CAD will control Squeak and communicate back and forth. In other languages, the addon would be a DLL called by the CAD. Can Squeak become such a DLL? How can it be done? Are there examples?
Any other ideas would be appreciated too. Thanks in advance.
All the best, Aik-Siong Koh
Hi Aik-Siong Koh,
a> I want to create an addon using Squeak for a Computer Aided Design (CAD) a> software in Windows. That means that the CAD will control Squeak and
very curious: which CAD? What do you plan to do? I'm in road design.
a> Any other ideas would be appreciated too. Thanks in advance.
Long term I plan to connect to ACAD, ICAD, ACAD LT+LTE via writing LISP in Squeak and make the CAD load the Lisp.
With DLL imho you have to do some work in every CAD you support with every release.
I have no good idea of how to access Squeak from Lisp. First access would just be to start Squeak from Lisp. Right now I have no better idea than let Lisp write a file which Squeak polls for.
Com imho is not present in every CAD and also differs too much. And I don't want to close the door to non M$ OS.
Any thoughts welcome!
Cheers,
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
I think it would be MUCH easier to write a .dll which communicating with squeak vm using sockets instead of rewriting squeak VM to be compiled as dll. There are too much gory details need to be changed to be able to build squeak as dynamic library for general purpose. Squeak VM can be built as browser plugin (dll), but to what i saw it is really different to making squeak a simple dynamic library.
2008/7/26 Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net:
Hi Aik-Siong Koh,
a> I want to create an addon using Squeak for a Computer Aided Design (CAD) a> software in Windows. That means that the CAD will control Squeak and
very curious: which CAD? What do you plan to do? I'm in road design.
a> Any other ideas would be appreciated too. Thanks in advance.
Long term I plan to connect to ACAD, ICAD, ACAD LT+LTE via writing LISP in Squeak and make the CAD load the Lisp.
With DLL imho you have to do some work in every CAD you support with every release.
I have no good idea of how to access Squeak from Lisp. First access would just be to start Squeak from Lisp. Right now I have no better idea than let Lisp write a file which Squeak polls for.
Com imho is not present in every CAD and also differs too much. And I don't want to close the door to non M$ OS.
Any thoughts welcome!
Cheers,
Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net
Thank you very much for your expert advice. Can you elaborate a bit why a Squeak.dll is so different from Squeak.exe? What holds back the browser plugin from becoming a CAD plugin/addon?
Thanks, Aik-Siong Koh
I think it would be MUCH easier to write a .dll which communicating with squeak vm using sockets instead of rewriting squeak VM to be compiled as dll. There are too much gory details need to be changed to be able to build squeak as dynamic library for general purpose. Squeak VM can be built as browser plugin (dll), but to what i saw it is really different to making squeak a simple dynamic library.
2008/7/27 askoh askoh@askoh.com:
Thank you very much for your expert advice. Can you elaborate a bit why a Squeak.dll is so different from Squeak.exe? What holds back the browser plugin from becoming a CAD plugin/addon?
Well, you have to rewrite the initialization, which starts in main() function and then after a dozen steps, like loading image, creating window, setting up a message loop, calls interpret(). Also, interpret() function is not reentrant, once you called it, it never returns.
And there i no API, like in other languages (Lua / Python) which will give you control on initialization & managing interpreter, memory , events from host application. You'll have to invent all by own. And there is a lot of platform-specific code, which assuming it runs as standalone process.
Thanks, Aik-Siong Koh
I think it would be MUCH easier to write a .dll which communicating with squeak vm using sockets instead of rewriting squeak VM to be compiled as dll. There are too much gory details need to be changed to be able to build squeak as dynamic library for general purpose. Squeak VM can be built as browser plugin (dll), but to what i saw it is really different to making squeak a simple dynamic library.
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Squeak-as-DLL-tp18655393p18671688.html Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hello Igor,
IS> I think it would be MUCH easier to write a .dll which communicating IS> with squeak vm using sockets instead of rewriting squeak VM to be IS> compiled as dll.
yeah, you'd have to plug a simple dll into the CAD which transfers all input it receives from the socket to the CAD's command line and in the other direction offers a function in the CAD to send some data (maybe only strings) out through the socket.
Plus a few functions in the CAD to set up the socket. No changes in Squeak at all. That's all you need as long as you don't need a very dynamic access with the CAD.
But: With AutoCAD they have made dll's incompatible, called it arx and have you sign some ugly license to use the SDK.
Our application supports AutoCAD + LT from 2000 to 2009 (soon) and could have one version of the lisp code (no version specific code).
For the C code, we have to keep around several compilers and a lot of ifdef's in the C code. 2010 will bring us the next C version.
Even for the small dll as described above that will be a lot of work and one point of the SDK license is to not make the program available under LT or other CAD platforms.
Cheers,
Herbert
My main work is related to freeCAD: 3D CAD with Motion Simulation http://ar-cad.com has the application and open source. All the code there is in VisualWorks.
A partner and I have created Alibre Motion addon using the motion engine. http://askoh.net/misc/motion/motion1/motion1.html We used Visual Basic and COM to interface Alibre Design and the VisualWorks motion engine. Others are helping me to create addons for Solidworks using VB, Rhinoceros using C++, AutoCAD using Lisp. My partner and I have put all the common features into a SDK, so only the CAD dependent code needs to be done to create motion addons. http://askoh.net/motionsdk/intro/Install_and_run_VB_example.html http://askoh.net/motionsdk/Programming/Programming_Intro.html http://askoh.net/motionsdk/Documentation/Documentation_Available.html http://askoh.net/motionsdk/intro/Actua_Motion_Core_SDK_Setup_20080506.exe
Another partner and I are porting freeCAD to Squeak and Croquet. http://www.youtube.com/user/kayef8 Hence, I have interest to create addons with Squeak.
I have tried DotNet Bridge with Squeak to control AutoCAD to do CAD automation. It works pretty well but it is Squeak controlling all the time. It may be possible to extend it to work both ways.
I would really like to create addons with Squeak. So I am willing to help any effort to make that possible.
All the best, Aik-Siong Koh
Hi,
thanks for a lot of information.
Please see my reply to Igor's post why C variants are an alternative I try to avoid. Especially as I'd have to pay the programmers.
a> I have tried DotNet Bridge with Squeak to control AutoCAD to do CAD a> automation. It works pretty well but it is Squeak controlling all the time. a> It may be possible to extend it to work both ways.
You are much advanced to me and your demands on the CAD are much higher than mine. We need the CAD more or less as an engine to statically draw plans and pick objects. In cases we dynamically drag parameterized constructions Lisp was fast enough 5 years ago.
a> I would really like to create addons with Squeak. So I am willing to help a> any effort to make that possible.
Igor's suggestion about sockets seems very valid here. From your links you seem to be using VB6. I verified from ACAD 2002 to 2007 they use VBA6, ACAD2000 doesn't specify its VB version.
So writing a VB6 dll to access sockets sockets and using that dll in VBA should make it possible to communicate with any Squeak. And you don't have to sign the arx license.
OTOH for you it might be easier to make your DotNet bidirectional. IMHO also no ugly license.
If rumours that ACAD 2010 will drop Lisp prove correct I see a chance for a Lisp across ACAD, ACAD LT and BricsCad (maybe even PowerCAD) that will support some basic socket functionality.
A bit OT I guess but maybe we have some more CAD related people around.
Cheers,
Herbert
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