Folks -
[I'm about to leave town]
I have incorporated the last updates I knew of (incl a couple JMM suggested that were required to compile a new VM on some platforms), have brought in an old copy of readme.txt, and have written a short word of caution to folks who should be at SqueakAlpha, not in Squeak.
I consider this final in code but not in appearance (please don't be shocked by the mess on screen). It needs...
1. The readme to be updated (flaps and UI prefs at least) and combined with the Getting Started text
2. A proper statement about rights and openness from Andrew, to go in the welcome window (probably at the end)
3. Ted to fix the SqC image whose URL appears in the welcome window, and it needs a good URL for Flash demo (suggestions??).
I have placed the latest image on UIUC as Squeak3.2gamma3.zip (I used Squeak to zip it, thanks for the encouragement).
I have spoken with Scott Wallace who says he is willing to do the final laying on of hands to finish this up.
If you have easily-implemented suggestions about the appearance of, or text to go in, the first-screen windows, please relay them promptly to Scott.
I will continue to be in touch be e-mail, though unable to do much of substance from here on. Scott knows this stuff well, and will probably do a better job that I at putting this baby in truly final form.
Good luck, y'all...
- Dan
At 10:03 29/06/02, you wrote:
- Ted to fix the SqC image whose URL appears in the welcome window, and
it needs a good URL for Flash demo (suggestions??).
there's a fmis.swf at the same level as this page: http://www.zogotounga.net/DAs/fourmis.html
could this make a demo ? (that's a Flash 4, with no sound)
by the way, when I saw it within squeak, I noticed that some colors where plain wrong !
Stef
there's a fmis.swf at the same level as this page: http://www.zogotounga.net/DAs/fourmis.html
could this make a demo ? (that's a Flash 4, with no sound)
by the way, when I saw it within squeak, I noticed that some colors where plain wrong !
... and also that morphing was wrong (see the snail), and the animation not too good (see the ants legs)
overall I was not impressed by the Flash-player performance :)
Stef
Hi,
I was after some community guidance/comment on the recent additions to the swiki that appear to be unrelated to the world of Squeak. I just wanted to check that I hadn't missed something.
This page
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2541
seems almost genuine but to me just in the wrong home. It's a bit different to playing a game with random gifs.
I've kindof got into cleaning up mode on the swiki but I don't want to tread on anyones toes. One of the pages I was going to 'clean' is locked and that prompted this post. What does one do in this situation?
thanks
Mike
On Sunday 30 June 2002 22:43, Michael Roberts wrote:
Hi,
I've kindof got into cleaning up mode on the swiki but I don't want to tread on anyones toes. One of the pages I was going to 'clean' is locked and that prompted this post. What does one do in this situation?
Talk to whoever has root rights: possibly je77 or Mark Guzdial.
To me it looks genuine enough, but should maybe either be someplace else or have it's own "front end". To me there would be some advantage in having -- if it doesn't exist already -- a "play with the Swiki" page where people who were just tipping their toes into the idea of using ComSwiki someplace else could simply mess about with the editor.
Cheers
John
Well, there seems to be a lot of activity going on on the Swiki that is not related to Squeak.
Some of it has been the grafitti issues that someone brought up recently, the latest has something to do with collaborative writing, colored fish, and a class of some sort.
These clearly have nothing to do with Squeak. However, I don't ever recall seeing a terms of use on the Squeak Swiki which tells what acceptable content is, or that the content must be Squeak related. Except for the folks who were pasting their vacation photos in the quote of the day page header, I would expect that most anything goes as long as it's not illegal.
Seems like a lost cause to me,
Jim
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hinsley" johnhinsley@blueyonder.co.uk To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 5:45 PM Subject: Re: Recent swiki contents
On Sunday 30 June 2002 22:43, Michael Roberts wrote:
Hi,
I've kindof got into cleaning up mode on the swiki but I don't want to tread on anyones toes. One of the pages I was going to 'clean' is
locked
and that prompted this post. What does one do in this situation?
Talk to whoever has root rights: possibly je77 or Mark Guzdial.
To me it looks genuine enough, but should maybe either be someplace else
or
have it's own "front end". To me there would be some advantage in
having --
if it doesn't exist already -- a "play with the Swiki" page where people
who
were just tipping their toes into the idea of using ComSwiki someplace
else
could simply mess about with the editor.
Cheers
John
Quoting Jim Benson jb@speed.net:
Well, there seems to be a lot of activity going on on the Swiki that is not related to Squeak.
[..snip..]
Seems like a lost cause to me,
I don't know if I agree with that assessment. It looks like a writing class from the University of Central Florida is the culprit, seeing that most of the external links go to servers that originate there.
Given that the cost of setting up their own Swiki is minimal, perhaps someone needs to contact the appropriate people at UCF and let them know how to make their own play space.
dave
John Hinsley johnhinsley@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
To me it looks genuine enough, but should maybe either be someplace else or have it's own "front end". To me there would be some advantage in having -- if it doesn't exist already -- a "play with the Swiki" page where people who were just tipping their toes into the idea of using ComSwiki someplace else could simply mess about with the editor.
Most Swikis have a "Sandbox" page. The Squeak swiki is no exception. -Lex
So 3.2 "final" is very close now, and this is a final call for complaints, suggestions, and problem reports.
Andrew kindly sent wording for the rights/openness paragraph.
I have been fleshing out and proofreading the contents of the ReadMe and Welcome windows.
Nobody has mentioned any issues regarding the 3.2gamma4 image recently posted, so at this point that 3.2gamma4 represents *precisely* the code base of the putative 3.2-final release, and 3.2-final will primarily differ from 3.2gamma4 only in the contents of the first-screen windows, plus having had a few standard last-minute-cleanup expressions evaluated.
Indeed, there has been no feedback whatsoever regarding 3.2gamma4, leaving me uncertain whether this represents "gamma burnout" -- i.e., nobody is using it -- or whether this bespeaks a satisfied community of gamma4 users who can attest to the absence of gotchas.
If *anybody* out there has used 3.2gamma4 and has any experiences to report, positive or negative or neutral, I would really appreciate hearing from you -- off-list is fine, unless there are issues worth bringing to the attention of the mailing list.
Thanks,
-- Scott
At 12:03 AM -0700 6/29/02, Dan Ingalls wrote:
Folks -
[I'm about to leave town]
I have incorporated the last updates I knew of (incl a couple JMM suggested that were required to compile a new VM on some platforms), have brought in an old copy of readme.txt, and have written a short word of caution to folks who should be at SqueakAlpha, not in Squeak.
I consider this final in code but not in appearance (please don't be shocked by the mess on screen). It needs...
- The readme to be updated (flaps and UI prefs at least) and
combined with the Getting Started text
- A proper statement about rights and openness from Andrew, to go
in the welcome window (probably at the end)
- Ted to fix the SqC image whose URL appears in the welcome
window, and it needs a good URL for Flash demo (suggestions??).
I have placed the latest image on UIUC as Squeak3.2gamma3.zip (I used Squeak to zip it, thanks for the encouragement).
I have spoken with Scott Wallace who says he is willing to do the final laying on of hands to finish this up.
If you have easily-implemented suggestions about the appearance of, or text to go in, the first-screen windows, please relay them promptly to Scott.
I will continue to be in touch be e-mail, though unable to do much of substance from here on. Scott knows this stuff well, and will probably do a better job that I at putting this baby in truly final form.
Good luck, y'all...
- Dan
If *anybody* out there has used 3.2gamma4 and has any experiences to report, positive or negative or neutral, I would really appreciate hearing from you -- off-list is fine, unless there are issues worth bringing to the attention of the mailing list.
Err, I hadn't even noticed such a release, so I haven't even looked at it...
tim
At 3:53 PM -0700 7/3/02, Tim Rowledge wrote:
If *anybody* out there has used 3.2gamma4 and has any experiences to report, positive or negative or neutral, I would really appreciate hearing from you -- off-list is fine, unless there are issues worth bringing to the attention of the mailing list.
Err, I hadn't even noticed such a release, so I haven't even looked at it...
Hi Tim,
Gamma4 replaced gamma3 on the server earlier this week, after it was discovered that gamma3 had an unusually nasty bug which could destroy the image any time a snapshot was made.
The thread concerning this -- which you probably *did* notice -- was titled "URGENT WARNING -- Don't snapshot! (was: "What is this error?")", and the gamma4 announcement came out day-before-yesterday:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/message/46415
Cheers,
-- Scott
Scott Wallace scott.wallace@squeakland.org is claimed by the authorities to have written:
Gamma4 replaced gamma3 on the server earlier this week, after it was discovered that gamma3 had an unusually nasty bug which could destroy the image any time a snapshot was made.
The thread concerning this -- which you probably *did* notice -- was titled "URGENT WARNING -- Don't snapshot! (was: "What is this error?")", and the gamma4 announcement came out day-before-yesterday:
Hmm, no it looks like I didn't actually get that one somehow. Very odd. Maybe my computer is getting a senile as I am?
tim
slow, on my PBG4 400 see an hourglass evry time I switch to another browser window. Have 100Megs allocated to squeak gamma 4 ...
e.
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, Tim Rowledge wrote:
If *anybody* out there has used 3.2gamma4 and has any experiences to report, positive or negative or neutral, I would really appreciate hearing from you -- off-list is fine, unless there are issues worth bringing to the attention of the mailing list.
Err, I hadn't even noticed such a release, so I haven't even looked at it...
tim
I tried 3.2gamma4.
Open Navigator, click Share, click Cancel.
After this it hangs for me (could be related to my VM which is
hamlet:/x/Squeak/3.2gamma4$ squeak -version 3.2-2 #2 XShm Mon Jun 10 21:53:35 PDT 2002 gcc egcs-2.91.66 Squeak3.3alpha of 30 January 2002 [latest update: #4881] Linux XXXXX 2.4.3 #1 SMP Sat Mar 31 00:02:06 PST 2001 i686 default plugin location: /home/thorn/.usr/lib/squeak/3.2-2/*.so
I found Mac-ism all over the place (command-click, control-click, cmd sh, etc), but that might be intended. (What happend to the red-blue-yellow mouse abstraction?)
There are still many variants of the scroll bar, in fact it seems that in all projects under The World of Squeak (except 3D) it jumps out to the left, where as it's static to the right elsewhere.
/Tommy
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It's maybe too late, but if Ned's latest release of Connectors has generally passed muster, could it be included in 3.2 final?
Cheers
John
On Wednesday 03 July 2002 05:10 pm, John Hinsley wrote:
It's maybe too late, but if Ned's latest release of Connectors has generally passed muster, could it be included in 3.2 final?
I'd rather not until people have had more chance to use it.
Plus it's too close to release to test it properly.
On Wednesday 03 July 2002 01:55 pm, Scott Wallace wrote:
If *anybody* out there has used 3.2gamma4 and has any experiences to report, positive or negative or neutral, I would really appreciate hearing from you -- off-list is fine, unless there are issues worth bringing to the attention of the mailing list.
Just that there are some recent fixes I submitted that I think should be in it:
CategorizeFix-nk (fixes "categorize all uncategorized") 1 July
SelDropFix-nk (fixes dropping/trashing of SelectionMorphs) 27 June
SelectionTranslateFix-nk (fixes selection within translated coord systems) 13 June
And maybe: SwapMouseButtonsAndKeys-nk (allows swapping of ctrl/alt per key, also mouse buttons) 11 Feb
Thanks,
Le Jeudi 4 juillet 2002, à 02:44 , Ned Konz a écrit :
On Wednesday 03 July 2002 01:55 pm, Scott Wallace wrote:
If *anybody* out there has used 3.2gamma4 and has any experiences to report, positive or negative or neutral, I would really appreciate hearing from you -- off-list is fine, unless there are issues worth bringing to the attention of the mailing list.
Just that there are some recent fixes I submitted that I think should be in it:
CategorizeFix-nk (fixes "categorize all uncategorized") 1 July
SelDropFix-nk (fixes dropping/trashing of SelectionMorphs) 27 June
SelectionTranslateFix-nk (fixes selection within translated coord systems) 13 June
And maybe: SwapMouseButtonsAndKeys-nk (allows swapping of ctrl/alt per key, also mouse buttons) 11 Feb
Yes, it would be cool to include the swap mouse buttons preference in this release. I vote for it.
Thanks,
Ned Konz http://bike-nomad.com GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE
Scott Wallace scott.wallace@squeakland.org writes:
If *anybody* out there has used 3.2gamma4 and has any experiences to report, positive or negative or neutral, I would really appreciate hearing from you -- off-list is fine, unless there are issues worth bringing to the attention of the mailing list.
Thanks for taking care of the handoff.
Took 3.2gamma4 for a spin this evening, just a few things I think might be worth mentioning...
The thumbnails in the Tools flap don't match the tools. The thumbnails have the classic look and the tools have the alternative (white background) look. But I have deeper complaint, that changing the look (theme) doesn't change the thumbnails. I used to destroy and restore flaps to work around this. Lately "PartsBin initialize" is what's required.
I'm testing on Unix (OpenBSD) with X of course (window manager is BlackBox) with Ian's 3.2.2 VM (built right out of the tarball except for ranlib on all the .a's). When I use the WM controls to go almost fullscreen (there's a little WM gizmo at the bottom I've told to stay on top) Squeak becomes weirdly unresponsive (hard to get the World menu up) until I use Alt-r to force a redraw, sometimes even that doesn't help. I wouldn't bother to mention this (I bet I'm the only one with this peculiar combination) except I've been using a 3.2gamma-4889 image for a week or 2 without ever seeing this. Maybe something's changed.
Alt-o brings up the Objects tool in the 4889 image (just like the menu says) but it brings up a Workspace in gamma4. Alt-k in 4889 opens a Workspace (like the menu says) but in gamma4 it opens a font menu. Alt-t and Alt-b work the same in the 2 images.
That's it for now. If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll push it around some more.
Cheers, Steve
On Wednesday 03 July 2002 06:55 pm, Steve Elkins wrote:
Alt-o brings up the Objects tool in the 4889 image (just like the menu says) but it brings up a Workspace in gamma4. Alt-k in 4889 opens a Workspace (like the menu says) but in gamma4 it opens a font menu. Alt-t and Alt-b work the same in the 2 images.
Not on my system...
The behavior you are discussing is what you'd get if a text pane had keyboard focus; if you click on the desktop and then try the alt-k or alt-o it should work fine.
Thank you, Steve!
At 9:55 PM -0400 7/3/02, Steve Elkins wrote:
The thumbnails in the Tools flap don't match the tools. The thumbnails have the classic look and the tools have the alternative (white background) look. But I have deeper complaint, that changing the look (theme) doesn't change the thumbnails. I used to destroy and restore flaps to work around this. Lately "PartsBin initialize" is what's required.
Good spotting. Actually, this was intentional, and only achieved after a certain amount of delicate effort. To my eye, the characteristic colors of the tools do not exhibit themselves strongly enough when the icons are made from the alternate window look -- the icons look insipid, and do not whisper their function loudly enough to be easily heard. I wonder what others' opinions are about this.
And you're right that the thumbnail cache persists across fresh launches of flaps, and you were clever to discover the magic potion of "PartsBin initialize" to reset the icon cache. A more direct UI is also available for resetting the icon cache -- look in the halo menu of the Objects Tool.
...Alt-o brings up the Objects tool in the 4889 image (just like the menu says) but it brings up a Workspace in gamma4. Alt-k in 4889 opens a Workspace (like the menu says) but in gamma4 it opens a font menu. Alt-t and Alt-b work the same in the 2 images.
This has to do with the setting of the "mouseOverForKeyboardFocus" preference. When this preference is *off* -- the default nowadays -- all keystrokes, including command-key gestures, get sent to the last active pane that was accepting keystrokes, even if the cursor is no longer over that pane; when this happens, the "desktop command keys" such as alt-k and alt-r and alt-b will not be fielded by the desktop if some window retains residual keyboard focus.
This is what happened when you hit alt-o -- some text window must have been retaining the keyboard focus, so alt-o was fielded by that text window, which interpreted it as a "spawn" request.
A simple click on the desktop will force the offending window to relinquish keyboard focus, whereupon the desktop command keys will work as expected -- alt-o will bring up the Objects tool, etc.
I personally prefer the classic *on* (true) setting for mouseOverForKeyboardFocus -- when this is set on, the desktop command keys are always immediately available.
Those who wish to keep mouseOverForKeyboardFocus *off* (i.e. set to false) and yet still have access to the desktop-keyboard-command shortcuts may benefit from using shift-esc to get the desktop menu regardless of current keyboard focus; once you have the desktop menu, you can issue the desktop command keys with impunity.
That's it for now. If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll push it around some more.
Thanks again, Steve.
Cheers,
-- Scott
Scott Wallace scott.wallace@squeakland.org writes:
Actually, this was intentional, and only achieved after a certain amount of delicate effort. To my eye, the characteristic colors of the tools do not exhibit themselves strongly enough when the icons are made from the alternate window look -- the icons look insipid, and do not whisper their function loudly enough to be easily heard. I wonder what others' opinions are about this.
Ahhh. I may be misremembering, but I think I went hunting for the icon cache in the 4889 image because I *wanted* thumbnails with the classic look and it had alternate look thumbnails. We agree about the insipid appearance of alternate look thumbnails (I would go even further). Balancing UI design imperatives is tough for me. In general, I want thumbnails to be likenesses of the things they represent, but icons need to be easily distinguished.
A more direct UI is also available for resetting the icon cache -- look in the halo menu of the Objects Tool.
Thanks, I see it.
[...]
This is what happened when you hit alt-o -- some text window must have been retaining the keyboard focus, so alt-o was fielded by that text window, which interpreted it as a "spawn" request.
OK, I'll set mouseOverForKeyboardFocus in gamma4.
Keep up the good work, Steve
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Alain Fischer -
Dan Ingalls -
David Brown -
Edmund Ronald -
Jim Benson -
John Hinsley -
Lex Spoon -
Michael Roberts -
Ned Konz -
Scott Wallace -
Steve Elkins -
Stéphane Rollandin -
Tim Rowledge -
Tommy Thorn