Benoit,
Hope this helps,
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org Cc: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de
Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence "civilization"?
Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation?
Cheers,
Alan
________________________________ From: Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org To: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Cc: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing
Benoit is asking this.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Benoît Fleury benoit.fleury@gmail.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Cc: IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, squeakland list squeakland@squeakland.org
Thank you Bert for the link.
I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture.
"One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick just because it is a good idea. All the companies I’ve worked for have this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a way to invent “agriculture” we could put the world back together and all would prosper."
If someone could explain me what it means.
Thanks, Benoit.
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
Time interviews Alan Kay:
http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan...
- Bert -
squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
_______________________________________________ squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
-- -- Yoshiki
-- -- Yoshiki
Actually, it was agriculture that led to the idea of government as a protection racket and to kneecapping or worse of those who refused to pay their taxes. Hunter-gatherer cultures are tribal, not national, and far more cooperative. I have historical and archaeological data on this if anybody needs it. Or you could watch The Gods Must Be Crazy and its sequel for humorous examples.
"Run and tell everybody to come and help us eat this elephant." (Killed by poachers, who took the tusks and left the body.)
On Tue, April 2, 2013 4:11 pm, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Benoit,
Hope this helps,
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org Cc: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de
Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence "civilization"?
Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation?
Cheers,
Alan
From: Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org To: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Cc: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing
Benoit is asking this.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Benoît Fleury benoit.fleury@gmail.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Cc: IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, squeakland list squeakland@squeakland.org
Thank you Bert for the link.
I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture.
"One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick just because it is a good idea. All the companies Ive worked for have this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a way to invent agriculture we could put the world back together and all would prosper."
If someone could explain me what it means.
Thanks, Benoit.
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
Time interviews Alan Kay:
http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan...
- Bert -
squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
-- -- Yoshiki
-- -- Yoshiki
I'm not sure we've successfully completed a shift to agriculture at all.
Some of the problems that modern societies still struggle with are directly related to the fact that we're (instinctively) better at hunting/gathering than agriculture, e.g. we have expensive overflowing prisons, whereas a hunter/gatherer who serially violated social norms would likely be left to hunt and gather alone, a fate roughly equivalent to death (unless a position in another social group could be obtained.)
Sounds a bit like getting fired from a job, no? I think that might be what Alan meant about the knee capping, but I'm not him so I don't know for sure.
On Apr 2, 2013, at 7:03 PM, mokurai@earthtreasury.org wrote:
Actually, it was agriculture that led to the idea of government as a protection racket and to kneecapping or worse of those who refused to pay their taxes. Hunter-gatherer cultures are tribal, not national, and far more cooperative. I have historical and archaeological data on this if anybody needs it. Or you could watch The Gods Must Be Crazy and its sequel for humorous examples.
"Run and tell everybody to come and help us eat this elephant." (Killed by poachers, who took the tusks and left the body.)
On Tue, April 2, 2013 4:11 pm, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Benoit,
Hope this helps,
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org Cc: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de
Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence "civilization"?
Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation?
Cheers,
Alan
From: Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org To: Alan Kay alan.nemo@yahoo.com Cc: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing
Benoit is asking this.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Benoît Fleury benoit.fleury@gmail.com Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Cc: IAEP SugarLabs iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, squeakland list squeakland@squeakland.org
Thank you Bert for the link.
I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture.
"One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick just because it is a good idea. All the companies I’ve worked for have this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a way to invent “agriculture” we could put the world back together and all would prosper."
If someone could explain me what it means.
Thanks, Benoit.
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
Time interviews Alan Kay:
http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan...
- Bert -
squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
squeakland mailing list squeakland@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
-- -- Yoshiki
-- -- Yoshiki
-- Edward Mokurai (默雷/निशब्दगर्ज/نشبدگرج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Casey Ransberger -
mokurai＠earthtreasury.org -
Yoshiki Ohshima