SqueakNOS May 2009

squeaknos@lists.squeakfoundation.org

5 participants
4 discussions

Re: [SqNOS] driver framework (was: SqueakNOS boots under VirtualBox on Mac OS X 10.5)
by luciano 02 Jun '09

02 Jun '09

Hi Jecel, Marik, Gera and all, I'm on this list but mostly silent because I dont have much time to contribute... I've been away from SqueakNOS (and Smalltalk) for the last 2 or 3 years. I looked at the SiliconSqueak web site, it is awesome. Is the Plurion board available? How do you develop for this? I didnt find quotes for LatticeECP2 development boards. Regards, Luciano On 6/1/09, Jecel Assumpcao Jr <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: > Gerardo Richarte wrote on Fri, 29 May 2009 01:00:24 -0300: >> Merik Voswinkel wrote: >> > A question from our Morphle team about the name SqueakNOS. Jecel and I >> > are publishing papers about SiliconSqueak and the operating system we >> > run on top of it. It has (among many other innovations) a new virtual >> > parallel device driver system. >> This is very interesting, where can I read more from this? or see it? >> screenshots, movies, anything! > > The paper about the driver framework has not been written yet (much less > the actual code), but there are several sources of information that are > available. There was a thread about this on squeak-dev back in May 1998: > >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/1998-May/015997.html > > Unfortunately, my message that started that thread is missing from the > archives. So I will add a copy of it to the end of this one. > > A wish list for Squeak was discussed earlier this year and two items > were a rewrite of the event interface between the VM and the image and > the inclusion of the Announcements framework (created in VisualWorks and > ported to Dolphin Smalltalk and Squeak) as part of the official image. I > suggested that these two items could be merged and several people felt > this is a good idea, but not work has been done on this. > > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5734 > > An interesting aspect of SqueakNOS is that interrupts get translated > into semaphore signals. This allows some forked code to block in > different points on this semaphore, which gets us something more like > coroutines than traditional interrupts handlers (which always start in > the same point and so have no saved state). This is very similar to what > was developed for the Apertos operating system that I have mentioned > here before. > > http://www.sonycsl.co.jp/project/Apertos/techpaper.html > > I am talking about papers 8, 9, 10 and 12 (I haven't actually read 10 > since it is in Japanese). For your convenience, I have translated paper > 12 from Postscript to PDF: > > http://www.merlintec.com/download/SCSL-TM-94-005.pdf > >> > Would you mind if we would call that SqueakNOS 2.0, or is that name >> > reserved for the work that you and Luciano did? >> well, truly, I think it's not a good idea, unless it's really based on >> SqueakNOS, and unless you are going to contribute everything back to >> SqueakNOS right away. We'd really have to see it to decide, but until we >> do, please, don't call it SqueakNOS or anything similar. >> >> On the other hand, if you implemented a new platform where SqueakNOS can >> run, it's just SqueakNOS, not 2.0, we commit it to the source >> repository, and that's it. > > The code we are developing will be just plain SqueakNOS. I am very much > against forking except in extreme cases. In my discussion with Merik, I > mentioned that the current state of SqueakNOS has some limitations > equivalent to early Linux or even MS DOS 1.0. In those systems the > hardware configuration was hardwired into the software and you had to > recompile it (or wait for Microsoft to do it for you) before you could > access new hardware. Eventually Linux got its kernel modules and MS DOS > 2.0 got its .sys files, so I said we need to get to at least that level > with SqueakNOS where some framework allows the PS/2 mouse to be replaced > with a USB one, for example. > > So I used the term "SqueakNOS 2.0" to refer to a version at least as > modular as DOS 2.0 (not the most ambitious target for an OS developer, > right?). > >> And then, yes, we are planning a SqueakNOS 2.0 already (and a 3.0 and a >> 404 too :) > > Exactly - let us get our roadmaps in synch if possible. > > Just to be clear: the discussion was about code to be added at the > Smalltalk level to SqueakNOS and not about any details of the lower > level platform. And I am also very interested in having SqueakNOS track > any changes in terms of event handling that might be developed for > "normal" Squeak. > > -- Jecel > > Here is the initial email in the i/o framework for Squeak thread: > ============= > >From - Tue May 19 22:05:54 1998 > Received: from jerry.cs.uiuc.edu (qmailr(a)jerry.cs.uiuc.edu [128.174.246.71]) > by hermes.lsi.usp.br (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id CAA25363 > for <jecel(a)lsi.usp.br>; Tue, 19 May 1998 02:19:02 -0300 (BSC) > Received: (qmail 27590 invoked by uid 95); 19 May 1998 05:18:39 -0000 > Resent-Date: 19 May 1998 05:18:39 -0000 > Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ; > Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:17:14 -0500 (CDT) > From: jecel(a)lsi.usp.br > Message-Id: <199805190517.AAA27596(a)c.cs.uiuc.edu> > Subject: KeyUp events > Resent-Message-ID: <"Hw2QrC.A.goG.hYRY1"@jerry> > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Resent-From: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Reply-To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > X-Mailing-List: <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> archive/latest/2072 > X-Loop: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: squeak-request(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Status: RO > X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 > Content-Length: 2357 > > I really haven't looked too deeply at this, but it seems > to me that it is not possible to detect keyUp events in > Squeak. That makes it impossible to write certain kinds > of games, a simple piano application or, in my case, a > chorded keyboard emulator. > > To tell the truth, I haven't been very pleased with what > I have seen so far of the input architecture. I thought > you might find a design I came up with interesting (if > not, sorry for wasting bandwidth...). > > My idea is to have a set of components connected in > a graph-like structure. The graph's edges can be either > "push" (where the origin sends a message like #mouseDown: > to the destination) or "pull" (where the destination sends > a message like #curentCursorX to the origin). > > A pushInput/pullOutput component is a buffer, like the > well known keyboard type-ahead buffer. A pullInput/pushOutput > object could be called a "pump", and can be quite handy > in certain situations. A filter is normally a push/push > component, but could also be a pull/pull one. They are > linked in a 2D graph, so an object can pull from several > sources or send to many destinations if the need arises. > > Now this graph is dynamic, and can change in response > to hardware changes (pluging in that new USB joystick) > user preferences (invoking Alan Kay's character > recognizer) or application needs (after a drag is > initiated you want to keep track of the cursor). > > The application should be able to "dip into" this event > graph at the points which match its semantic needs > the best. If it needs to insert text in a morph then > it should poll the TextMux object for input. At this > point it could be seeing cooked input from a multi- > language keyboard system, the result of a fancy voice > recognition system or even the interpretation of some > touch tones over the phone line. On the other hand, > the toy piano app I mentioned above would be driven > by virtual keyboard scancodes. In the same way, a > program that needs gestures could get them from > a filter on the mouse or from a VR glove, while a > paint program might prefer to see mouse events > directly (not really, but you get the idea). > > Extending Squeak with remote "hands", MIDI, > future facial expression recognition from video > and so on will become ever more difficult unless > something like I suggested is implemented. > > -- Jecel > ============= > > _______________________________________________ > SqueakNOS mailing list > SqueakNOS(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/squeaknos >

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Re: [SqNOS] SqueakNOS boots under VirtualBox on Mac OS X 10.5
by Gerardo Richarte 31 May '09

31 May '09

Merik Voswinkel wrote: > Hi, > > Thank you for the tips. I'm testing Qemu/Q now, but still no network. I wonder what are you doing to test the network, how are you testing it? what tests fail? > A question from our Morphle team about the name SqueakNOS. Jecel and I > are publishing papers about SiliconSqueak and the operating system we > run on top of it. It has (among many other innovations) a new virtual > parallel device driver system. This is very interesting, where can I read more from this? or see it? screenshots, movies, anything! > Would you mind if we would call that SqueakNOS 2.0, or is that name > reserved for the work that you and Luciano did? well, truly, I think it's not a good idea, unless it's really based on SqueakNOS, and unless you are going to contribute everything back to SqueakNOS right away. We'd really have to see it to decide, but until we do, please, don't call it SqueakNOS or anything similar. On the other hand, if you implemented a new platform where SqueakNOS can run, it's just SqueakNOS, not 2.0, we commit it to the source repository, and that's it. And then, yes, we are planning a SqueakNOS 2.0 already (and a 3.0 and a 404 too :) gera

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SqueakNOS boots under VirtualBox on Mac OS X 10.5
by Merik Voswinkel 20 May '09

20 May '09

Hi, I used the SqueakNOS.iso version of 08-Aug-2006. I use VirtualBox 2.2.2 on Mac OS X 10.5 on a dual core macmini. I have mouse and keyboard control, but it is very jerky. It can take up to 20 seconds for any response to clicks or typing. Next I will try to test the network, but it expects different devices than SqueakNOS has, Any hints where to begin to test these drivers? And how to start modifying the current drivers? Merik

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Out-of-date links and small rewrite
by Derek Peschel 04 May '09

04 May '09

Some minor housekeeping would make the SqueakNOS pages much more friendly for the casual browser. 1. This URL: http://people.squeakfoundation.org/proj/SqueakNOS/ is now bad. Can someone suggest a replacement? Then I can update the Wiki which points to it, but not the squeaksource.com pages. 2. This URL: http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/gera/ is also bad. Gera, any ideas? The Wiki points to this too. 3. On these pages: http://www.squeaksource.com/@GNJajakL4a4kH8PK/Hdr9024c http://www.squeaksource.com/SqueakNOS/ the links to the Squeak Wiki need to be changed (minnow.cc.gatech.edu became wiki.squeak.org). 4. On SqueakNOS's Wiki page, is the sentence "We've put up a mailing list to talk SqueakNOS, join in, or just drop an email there." really two sentences run together, or something else I misunderstood? The second sentence "Join in, or just drop an email there." is not true since you _can't_ post without subscribing. I'm happy to slightly rewrite the text unless someone has other ideas or objections. -- Derek

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SqueakNOS May 2009