squeakland July 2006

squeakland@lists.squeakfoundation.org

25 participants
27 discussions

Reverse Game in Etoys (was: Re: [Newbies] Reverse Game in seven lines)
by Markus Gaelli 13 Jul '06

13 Jul '06

Hi David, On Jul 13, 2006, at 11:28 AM, David Corking wrote: > (cross-post from beginners list) I cc it to squeakland, as this is the preferred list to discuss Etoy- related questions. > > On 7/11/06, Markus Gaelli <gaelli(a)emergent.de> wrote: >> >> Anyone tried the Etoys-Version? Someone told me that it was not >> working for him, but I did not investigate... >> > http://www.squeakland.org/project.jsp?http://www.emergent.de/pub/ > smalltalk/squeak/projects/reverse.pr > > Yes - it is fun and has a lovely interface. (I am using Linux and > Firefox - and I have a squeakland-3.8-1.noarch.rpm from > www.squeakland.org) It is a great demo of the power of tiles and > Etoys. > Thank you for trying. Glad that it works and that you like it. :-) > I am brand new to smalltalk and Etoys, and to 'everything is an > object'. So, I tried to teach myself something from Markus work. My > learning anecdote is included as a p.s. > > My tentative conclusion - it feels like I have a long learning curve > ahead of me - a curve of building, breaking and repairing many Etoys, > and learning the underlying development tools, before I could > confidently assist a 12 year old who wants to make his imagination > come to life on his computer screen. I intend to embark on that > learning curve. I hope to be surprised later when my nephew takes the > odd 'message not understood' dialog in his stride, deletes (or loses) > some of his work, and starts again in the excitement of authoring his > own multimedia product. Do my thoughts resonate with those of you > more experienced, or is it easier than it looks to introduce tile > scripting to kids? > > BTW - thanks Markus and best regards, David > > p.s. my anecdote : > to teach myself a little from Markus's Reverse Game, I click around a > bit to try to work out You stumbled exactly over the two main "tricks" here: > 1. why/how do all the buttons run the same > scripts? Etoys is a nice implementation of prototype systems as it stems back from "self". That means, that you can create shallow copies of any morph using "siblings...". So I created one cell, and then via red menu halo "Siblings..." -> "Create multiple Siblings..." I created another 8 siblings of this one. A script done for one morph then also applies to all its siblings. If you change that script, all siblings change their behavior also, as they share the very same script. > 2. where is the HelperStack? This is the one behind the ReverseStack. (The one where you can only see the orange outline, I should have denoted it...) In Etoys you can only program visual objects. Thus I used that HelperStack to put in the cell at the cursor of the ReverseStack (which always denotes the first cell) until the clicked cell is at the first position. As the cells are always included at the last position of the HelperStack (using the default include: method) and afterwards included at the first position of the ReverseStack (using the includeAtCursor: method) the cells get reversed. But I agree, as long as Etoys do not provide a visual debugger, where one could watch each step animated, it is hard to understand what is going on. For a start you could drag (thus disable) the "HelperStack tellAllContents: includeInReverseField"-tile out of its script to actually see the cells in the ReverseStack after pressing some cell. > > In overenthusiastic clicking, I delete a ScriptStatusControl and break > the toy :( ('Message not understood' dialog whenever I click on a > number cell.) I decide this is another learning opportunity. A > couple of minutes clicking around and I haven't found out how to give > the broken script a new status control. I googled aound a bit for > docs, but I know too little about Squeak to know what to ask Google. > Next I try to make a new tile script from scratch (monkey see - monkey > do) > > Oops! I accidentally click on a 'send message' (! bang) button, and > Squeak goes into a busy loop. The screen is not updating at all, and > my processsor is at 100% for 3 or 4 minutes. Finally, my processor > load goes back to normal, but still nothing is happening in the Squeak > window. If you are not in the browser Ctrl-. could work to interrupt a process - otherwise it might be the best to just restart and reload... :-/ > I still don't know the answers to my first two questions. I > have more sympathy with Chris Cunnington. This project is intended to show (off ;-) what could be done with Etoys and really pushing its limits. I guess it is less suited as a general intro, but - who knows? Cheers, Markus

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Re: [Squeakland] [Newbies] Squeak/eToys manual?
by Milan Zimmermann 13 Jul '06

13 Jul '06

John, please ask at squeakland(a)squeakland.org mailing list, I do not know. I think they are rearranging the website so these may be useful suggestions (OK I Cc:ed it there) Milan On 2006 July 10 04:28, John Kershaw wrote: > Yes, I've been through those tutorials, and they're good, (though not sure > why the extremely advanced Kedama tutorial is placed first) but they're > only enough to whet one's appetite. Surely the paint/handles/car tutorials > should be the first of 20 or 30 tutorials, graded by difficulty/chapter, > with Kedema being the 'Final Boss' tutorial? > > And where are the 'eToy a week' projects Alan talks about? I'd like to have > a butcher's at those! > > John. > > On 09/07/06, Milan Zimmermann <milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > > On 2006 July 8 18:26, John Kershaw wrote: > > > Oh. My. I CANNOT believe I missed that. > > > > > > Sometimes things are just staring you in the face. > > > > > > Thanks - and thanks for the step-by-step tutorial, otherwise I STILL > > > > might > > > > > not've got it. Are there any other tutorials around at the approx level > > > > of > > > > > the 'steer a car' tutorial on the Squeakland site? > > > I'd love to work through > > > a bunch of similar 'learn this feature' recipes. > > > > John, > > > > on squeakland.org, click on one of the ovals that says "Kids Play", then > > on > > top, click "Tutorials". > > > > There are several tutorial, the Kedama is especially beautiful (I have to > > find > > time to go through it myself). A PDF version of it is linked here: > > > > http://squeakland.org/pdf/kedama.pdf > > > > Milan > > > > > John. > > > > > > On 08/07/06, Milan Zimmermann <milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > > John, > > > > > > > > Based on Bert's description I created a small "tutorial" > > > > > > > > How to Make an Object (for example MyCurve) Act as Button? > > > > > > > > 0) Drag out a curve from Supplies, name it MyCurve > > > > 1) Show Viewer on MyCurve > > > > 2) In Viewer, go to scripts, drag out "emptyScript" > > > > 3) Pust some code in the script, e.g. drag out "basic->Make Sound > > > > Croak" > > > > > > 4) Click at the oval to the right of the "clock" on the script, > > > > select "mouseUp" > > > > 5) Now when you click on MyCurve, it croaks > > > > > > > > The above is one way. Another way is to click on MyCurve and show > > > > it's hallo, > > > > and select from menu: > > > > > > > > extras-->add mouseUp action and put a code there like: > > > > > > > > self beep: 'coyote' > > > > > > > > Milan > > > > > > > > On 2006 July 8 11:37, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > > > > The script'ts trigger is set to "normal" initially (the menu button > > > > > right of the clock), meaning the script executes when it is > > > > > explicitly called from another script. But you can chage the > > > > > trigger by clicking that button and set it to ticking, mouseDown > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > - Bert - > > > > > > > > > > Am 08.07.2006 um 13:31 schrieb John Kershaw: > > > > > > I'm with you as far as 'script's trigger' - where do I find that? > > > > I > > > > > > > > can click the menu next to the script and drag out a 'button to > > > > > > fire this script' but nothing about mouseDown. > > > > > > > > > > > > John. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 08/07/06, Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)impara.de> wrote: Am > > > > 08.07.2006 > > > > > > > > um 11:52 schrieb John Kershaw: > > > > > > > Thanks for that. Can anyone tell me how to make an object act > > > > like > > > > > > > > > a button? > > > > > > > > > > > > Make a script for your object and set the script's trigger to > > > > > > mouseDown. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Bert - > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Beginners mailing list > > > > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Beginners mailing list > > > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners

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Computer Language Definitions and Intelligibility
by Greg Smith 11 Jul '06

11 Jul '06

I just started reading Alan Kay's forward to the book, SQUEAK: OBJECT-ORIENTED DESIGN WITH MULTIMEDIA APPLICATIONS and came across the phrase, "extreme late binding". This presented the same problem I always seem to encounter when trying to learn any technical subject, from scratch. Having no prior background in the subject under discussion, I have no familiarity with the insider lingo that inevitably exists in each and every text on the written on the subject. At this point, encountering a phrase which, to me, is unintelligible, I have two options - close the article or do some research to find the full meaning of the phrase. I did so, using Google, and found quite a few articles that use and refer to this phrase, but each and every one that I looked at, though using the phrase, never defined the phrase in plain English for the benefit of the understanding of the uninitiated. This just strengthens my view that if endeavors like computer programming are ever to pass out of the hands of the priesthood and into the hands of the layman, then something's got to be done about the methods used to transfer this knowledge. I still haven't got an inkling about the concept of "extreme late binding", though I wish I did. Greg Smith

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Re: [Squeakland] Can EToys Teach Me to Program in Squeak?
by Valerie Scarlata 11 Jul '06

11 Jul '06

Greg, I was new to programming in general when I started using Squeak. Perhaps Open Croquet, Scratch, and Tweak (other environments Squeak people are working on, but still have some basis in Squeak) will, when they mature, be what you are looking for. If you stick it out and really try to get into object oriented programming concepts and implementation through Squeak / Etoys, you will understand other environments and languages so much better. I am a graphic artist as well, and I went to school with lots of other artists finicky about programming - wanting it to be easy and less math like, but it takes time. I stuck it out, even going through really old Smalltalk tutorials. Because of Squeak I really do understand what I'm doing in other languages. It's true, Squeak isn't pretty and flashy, but it is a really powerful environment. It just takes some time and dedication to reap the benefits of learning how to program through it. After working with other languages, sometimes I wish everything was like Squeak / Etoys. Try modeling something in Java, then do it in Etoys. You'll wish Java was Etoys. I guarantee it. Valerie Scarlata

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Pledgebank: Wanna sign for the $100 laptop for $300?
by Markus Gaelli 11 Jul '06

11 Jul '06

Hi folks, I stumbled over a site, where you can commit yourself to some action - if enough people are also willing to help. Could be useful in lots of situations... http://www.pledgebank.com I just signed for buying the $100 laptop for $300 (2,828 people have signed up, 97172 more needed) http://www.pledgebank.com/100laptop Cheers, Markus

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Computer Language Definitions and Intelligibility
by Chris Muller 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

Hi Greg, I can relate to the challenge you've had in finding basic definitions. Even Wikipedia's entry on "late binding" seems overly verbose and complicated, so let me give it a try. In any computer program you work with objects like strings or numbers or toys. The program is a series of instructions that tell the computer what to do with the objects, add two numbers, capitalize the first character of a string, or move a toy to the left on the screen by 10 pixels. But for programs of any length to make sense to humans, it is very necessary to *name* the objects that you are working with. For example: total = price + salesTax The unit of the program which *is* a name of an object is called a "variable". Binding refers to the fact that "total" refers to the result or price + salesTax. "Early" or "late" refers to WHEN the the variable is bound to the result of their instructions. In the above example, an "early" binding would occur when the code was compiled, well before it is executed. How could total be bound if we don't know the price and salesTax until the program runs? The answer is, its not the actual number but rather an empty "slot" is made available internally in the program where it knows it will store the result of price + salesTax. The "total" variable will always point only to this slot in memory and whatever value is placed into that slot is what "total" will report to any instruction asking for it when the program is run. With late binding, the "slot" for the price + salesTax result is created dynamically and the "total" variable is referred to it at runtime right after that instruction executes. So late-binding provides run-time flexibility, early-binding does not. It turns out that this flexibility allows programs to be much easier to write, maintain because they are not so rigid. Hope this helps, if I've mis-spoken someone please correct me. Welcome to Squeak. > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 13:28:53 -0700 > From: Greg Smith <brucegregory(a)earthlink.net> > Subject: [Squeakland] Computer Language Definitions and > Intelligibility > To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org > Message-ID: <0351445D-87A4-4BC9-8A6D-1A4858C0A531(a)earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I just started reading Alan Kay's forward to the book, > > SQUEAK: > OBJECT-ORIENTED > DESIGN WITH > MULTIMEDIA > APPLICATIONS > > and came across the phrase, "extreme late binding". > > This presented the same problem I always seem to encounter when > trying to learn any technical subject, from scratch. Having no prior > background in the subject under discussion, I have no familiarity > with the insider lingo that inevitably exists in each and every text > on the written on the subject.

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Re: [Squeakland] Can EToys Teach Me to Program in Squeak?
by Leonel Morgado 10 Jul '06

10 Jul '06

Hi Greg, I think exploring computer languages oriented at children can be a great way of starting. Unlike one may think, many of them are indeed powerful programming languages, not just "toy" languages (in the sense of toy shovels or toy cars). Squeak can be interesting to you, I think, since it allows you to initiate by linking visual behaviors with textual properties. However, when I kept reading on about 2-D and 3-D manipulations and code and Legos, I couldn't help but suggest that you have a look at the ToonTalk language (www.toontalk.com), where programming is done entirely by manipulation of objects (even addition is the action of dropping a number pad on top of another - then a mouse with a big hammer comes along and bangs them into the sum). I think the best way to start, either with Squeak Etoys or with ToonTalk, is to have a look at the tutorial samples and try to reproduce them. If your worry is, "can I learn to program with these child-oriented languages", I say: yes you can. You will find them powerful means. You'll find the programming you learn to be quite different from that algebraic format you mention, but if you so endeavour to proceed into it, you can probably find it easier to grasp after having dealt with related techniques in a different format. Inté, Leonel -----Original Message----- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:33:29 -0700 From: Greg Smith <brucegregory(a)earthlink.net> Subject: [Squeakland] Can EToys Teach Me to Program in Squeak? To: squeakland(a)squeakland.org Message-ID: <D9AE23C0-856E-4C01-B389-F4A5F02D617C(a)earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Alan: My programming aspirations are really very specific in nature. I have been a graphic artist and animator, using primarily the Mac platform since 1985. Mostly, I am trying to find a solution that helps a visual learner, like myself, get a grip on the thinking required to engineer a graphically based interactive "building system", like a Lego set with brains. I'll elaborate in a moment. I actually have a little exposure to programming going back to HyperCard in the early 90's and was actually paid by a local university to write a simple and fun stack that taught children the base 10 number system. I can tell you the entire learning process was one of the biggest struggles of my computer life. Whereas, absorbing the necessary knowledge found in complex 3D graphic systems is quite quick and easy for me, because there is instant visual confirmation of my efforts; trying to understand systems by working with textual abstractions which define algorithmic processes bounces off my brain and simply falls, lifelessly to the floor. Though I can express myself and understand others using text as found in the English language, the abbreviated, strange, math-like structure of most "modern" computer languages simply does not make sense to me. Not only so, but I find the experience totally unrewarding. I believe it has to do with not having any visual feedback during the process of creation. Everything is an abstraction, like in math. I've learned, over the years, that my mind does not function and learn like the minds of most "programmer types". And I think this is true for most "artist types". Still, I have some pretty interesting ideas for putting together a very entertaining "building system" that could provide hours of entertainment, as well as education for children and adults, alike, that I would love to create via some kind of programming environment. Imagine either a 2D grid, isometric grid or a 3D gridded surface that is similar to a Lego table top building surface. It is equipped with regular "plug-ins" or snap points just like a Lego system. Further imagine a wonderful set of building parts, each one possessing certain, rather simple properties, that, when snapped "magnetically" or with a socket joint, to other similar pieces which possess different, interesting properties, more complex behaviors become possible. As an example: one building piece has the simple ability to rotate on the horizontal plane, while another can levitate, hover and move any direction on the horizontal plane, while still another has the ability to sprout Lego-legs and walk, both horizontally, up "walls" and over "ceilings" . . . still another piece can act as a strong magnet, repelling or attracting other certain pieces, and yet another piece can levitate, hover and fly from place to place on the "board". Even the board is "alive" and has regions of freedom and constraint which need to be discovered . . . a Lego "terrain". The user of such a building system would enjoy both the "tactile" sensation of working with "real" Lego-like building blocks in addition to watching the actions and reactions grow and develop by combining different parts together, ultimately creating systems like factories that accomplish a "work" task, games that reach certain goals, or simulations that demonstrate various physical principles. The system would be graphically rich and animated, probably best constructed from ray-traced 3D models. Quite unlimited in potential assemblies, yet only attainable by the combining and interaction of the many talented "pieces" as they are manipulated by the user through their world. A "living" Lego set that demonstrates encapsulation of behaviors, inheritance and "object oriented-like" construction processes, though I really don't understand the depth of what you had in mind when you coined the phrase. A more advanced building system or an "add-on" set of functions would include a "part" construction set for the creation of custom pieces with a wide variety of user defined abilities. Actually, working with and interacting with this kind of tactile, visual system is my idea of what programming should be. I know I would take to a learning system like this as a duck to water. I learn by analogy and constant reference to the "real" world. I also learn by actually "working with my hands", not just my mind. And there is constant feedback that displays results, instantly. Great for kids of all ages! So, you see, I have an idea for a very complex system which I am quite helpless to create using any of the programming tools I have ever been exposed to, nor would I really relish the idea of having to create such a system using those kinds of abstract tools. I'm hoping that Squeak might offer some hope toward helping me to realize this goal. Sincerely, Greg Smith

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Re: [Squeakland] [Newbies] Squeak/eToys manual?
by Milan Zimmermann 09 Jul '06

09 Jul '06

On 2006 July 8 18:26, John Kershaw wrote: > Oh. My. I CANNOT believe I missed that. > > Sometimes things are just staring you in the face. > > Thanks - and thanks for the step-by-step tutorial, otherwise I STILL might > not've got it. Are there any other tutorials around at the approx level of > the 'steer a car' tutorial on the Squeakland site? > I'd love to work through > a bunch of similar 'learn this feature' recipes. John, on squeakland.org, click on one of the ovals that says "Kids Play", then on top, click "Tutorials". There are several tutorial, the Kedama is especially beautiful (I have to find time to go through it myself). A PDF version of it is linked here: http://squeakland.org/pdf/kedama.pdf Milan > > John. > > On 08/07/06, Milan Zimmermann <milan.zimmermann(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > > John, > > > > Based on Bert's description I created a small "tutorial" > > > > How to Make an Object (for example MyCurve) Act as Button? > > > > 0) Drag out a curve from Supplies, name it MyCurve > > 1) Show Viewer on MyCurve > > 2) In Viewer, go to scripts, drag out "emptyScript" > > 3) Pust some code in the script, e.g. drag out "basic->Make Sound Croak" > > 4) Click at the oval to the right of the "clock" on the script, select > > "mouseUp" > > 5) Now when you click on MyCurve, it croaks > > > > The above is one way. Another way is to click on MyCurve and show it's > > hallo, > > and select from menu: > > > > extras-->add mouseUp action and put a code there like: > > > > self beep: 'coyote' > > > > Milan > > > > On 2006 July 8 11:37, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > > The script'ts trigger is set to "normal" initially (the menu button > > > right of the clock), meaning the script executes when it is > > > explicitly called from another script. But you can chage the trigger > > > by clicking that button and set it to ticking, mouseDown etc. > > > > > > - Bert - > > > > > > Am 08.07.2006 um 13:31 schrieb John Kershaw: > > > > I'm with you as far as 'script's trigger' - where do I find that? I > > > > can click the menu next to the script and drag out a 'button to > > > > fire this script' but nothing about mouseDown. > > > > > > > > John. > > > > > > > > On 08/07/06, Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)impara.de> wrote: Am 08.07.2006 > > > > > > > > um 11:52 schrieb John Kershaw: > > > > > Thanks for that. Can anyone tell me how to make an object act like > > > > > a button? > > > > > > > > Make a script for your object and set the script's trigger to > > > > mouseDown. > > > > > > > > - Bert - > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Beginners mailing list > > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Beginners mailing list > > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners

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Can EToys Teach Me to Program in Squeak?
by Greg Smith 08 Jul '06

08 Jul '06

Alan: My programming aspirations are really very specific in nature. I have been a graphic artist and animator, using primarily the Mac platform since 1985. Mostly, I am trying to find a solution that helps a visual learner, like myself, get a grip on the thinking required to engineer a graphically based interactive "building system", like a Lego set with brains. I'll elaborate in a moment. I actually have a little exposure to programming going back to HyperCard in the early 90's and was actually paid by a local university to write a simple and fun stack that taught children the base 10 number system. I can tell you the entire learning process was one of the biggest struggles of my computer life. Whereas, absorbing the necessary knowledge found in complex 3D graphic systems is quite quick and easy for me, because there is instant visual confirmation of my efforts; trying to understand systems by working with textual abstractions which define algorithmic processes bounces off my brain and simply falls, lifelessly to the floor. Though I can express myself and understand others using text as found in the English language, the abbreviated, strange, math-like structure of most "modern" computer languages simply does not make sense to me. Not only so, but I find the experience totally unrewarding. I believe it has to do with not having any visual feedback during the process of creation. Everything is an abstraction, like in math. I've learned, over the years, that my mind does not function and learn like the minds of most "programmer types". And I think this is true for most "artist types". Still, I have some pretty interesting ideas for putting together a very entertaining "building system" that could provide hours of entertainment, as well as education for children and adults, alike, that I would love to create via some kind of programming environment. Imagine either a 2D grid, isometric grid or a 3D gridded surface that is similar to a Lego table top building surface. It is equipped with regular "plug-ins" or snap points just like a Lego system. Further imagine a wonderful set of building parts, each one possessing certain, rather simple properties, that, when snapped "magnetically" or with a socket joint, to other similar pieces which possess different, interesting properties, more complex behaviors become possible. As an example: one building piece has the simple ability to rotate on the horizontal plane, while another can levitate, hover and move any direction on the horizontal plane, while still another has the ability to sprout Lego-legs and walk, both horizontally, up "walls" and over "ceilings" . . . still another piece can act as a strong magnet, repelling or attracting other certain pieces, and yet another piece can levitate, hover and fly from place to place on the "board". Even the board is "alive" and has regions of freedom and constraint which need to be discovered . . . a Lego "terrain". The user of such a building system would enjoy both the "tactile" sensation of working with "real" Lego-like building blocks in addition to watching the actions and reactions grow and develop by combining different parts together, ultimately creating systems like factories that accomplish a "work" task, games that reach certain goals, or simulations that demonstrate various physical principles. The system would be graphically rich and animated, probably best constructed from ray-traced 3D models. Quite unlimited in potential assemblies, yet only attainable by the combining and interaction of the many talented "pieces" as they are manipulated by the user through their world. A "living" Lego set that demonstrates encapsulation of behaviors, inheritance and "object oriented-like" construction processes, though I really don't understand the depth of what you had in mind when you coined the phrase. A more advanced building system or an "add-on" set of functions would include a "part" construction set for the creation of custom pieces with a wide variety of user defined abilities. Actually, working with and interacting with this kind of tactile, visual system is my idea of what programming should be. I know I would take to a learning system like this as a duck to water. I learn by analogy and constant reference to the "real" world. I also learn by actually "working with my hands", not just my mind. And there is constant feedback that displays results, instantly. Great for kids of all ages! So, you see, I have an idea for a very complex system which I am quite helpless to create using any of the programming tools I have ever been exposed to, nor would I really relish the idea of having to create such a system using those kinds of abstract tools. I'm hoping that Squeak might offer some hope toward helping me to realize this goal. Sincerely, Greg Smith

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Re: [Squeakland] Animation, Onion-Skinning and Antialiased Graphics
by Bert Freudenberg 08 Jul '06

08 Jul '06

Rotating and scaling an image does not preserve the alpha channel, it gets pixelated. But right after dropping into Squeak it should look fine. If not, could you attach a small sample PNG? For animating, put the frames in a holder and cycle. Have a look at "Sam's Face Ball" project here: http://www.squeakland.org/school/elementary.html - Bert - Am 08.07.2006 um 19:48 schrieb Greg Smith: > Bert: > > Thanks for your assistance and direction. I succeeded in dragging > in a .png file with alpha channel, after setting the EToys display > to 32bit. Works nicely, except I noticed that my finely > antialiased .png image got more pixelated around the edges. Even > when sizing it smaller within EToys the phenomenon persists. > Probably not anything I can do about it. > > How about importing a sequence of .png images with alpha to produce > an animation, is this possible? If not, could you elaborate on the > method for producing animation within EToys? > > Thanks, > > Greg Smith > > > On Jul 7, 2006, at 3:00 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: > >> Am 07.07.2006 um 21:35 schrieb Greg Smith: >> >>> I just discovered EToys the other day and am thoroughly >>> fascinated by >>> its potential to possibly teach an old graphics guy, like me, how to >>> program and express myself graphically/interactively/experimentally. >>> I'm hoping the EToys environment will allow me to do this. >> >> Welcome :) >> >>> In messing around inside the EToys environment I could not readily >>> see any evidence of antialiasing being present on the results of any >>> of the painting tools. >> >> This is true. The etoys drawing tools have been kept simple, both >> on purpose and because it's no small feat to rival professional >> drawing tools. The purpose is, for example, to allow for testing >> colors in a script, which would be hindered by smooth colors. >> >> Beautiful graphics you should author externally and import. Also, >> many of the more advanced features of Squeak are not exposed at >> the etoy level. For example, we can directly import and play back >> Flash vector animations, but you need a programmer for that. >> >>> I also discovered there didn't seem to be any >>> support for the .png format with alpha channel for use as "sprites" >>> for lack of a better term. >> >> Set Squeak's display depth to 32 to enable alpha-compositing >> (it's 16 by default to save memory), and drag a PNG from the >> Finder into Squeak. >> >>> Also, if really good animations are to be produced within the EToys >>> environment, it will be necessary to have an untouchable set of >>> layers that represent, at least, previous drawings in the animation, >>> (onion skin). I couldn't readily discover any such functionality. >>> Is it possible within EToys? >> >> When you make a new painting, a previous painting is visible >> behind the translucent white background of the paint tool. >> >> - Bert - >>

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squeakland July 2006