On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Steve Thomas wrote (resending to list):
I tried it on a whiteboard and here is what I recall. Getting the right click took a while to figure out. If you know the model # and version of the software you can download the manual before you start your tests. There should be a way as I recall to setup "multiple finger touch" to "right click" and get the halo, but I also recall it required some setup time and if time is limited there is a two touch method where I touched something in the smartboard's palette that made my next touch a right click. One thing you will notice as well is that depending on the placement of the projector you can block the image if you are in the wrong spot (between the projector and a particular section of the screen you want to see/touch. One of the difficulties I believe Bert had was being able to touch the thing you want for small objects on a small screen. On a white board the "screen size" is rather large and most objects were large enough that I do not recall having that problem. I may be able to get access to a Smartboard again for some more test. Another thought you may want to try to give yourself more time is setup a WiiMote Whiteboard http://johnnylee.net/projects/wii/ all you need is a projector and a Wii Remote. If you don't have a projector you can also use it on your monitor.
Thanks for the tips, Steve.
I most expect to encounter trouble with "hover" actions, such as balloon helps, and the "is under mouse" tile.
I will experiment with the palette and with multi-touch for right click if I get time.
I think the only use of right-click is to make halos appear, but I may be wrong. Maybe there is another interaction style someone can dream up for halos.
The most exciting possibility to me is to see two or more students work on an Etoys world at the same time. Bert mentions multiple pointers in his video. (The classroom will be empty so I won't see students this time, but I do have two hands!)
David
On 25.02.2011, at 05:22, David Corking wrote:
The most exciting possibility to me is to see two or more students work on an Etoys world at the same time. Bert mentions multiple pointers in his video. (The classroom will be empty so I won't see students this time, but I do have two hands!)
I doubt that Smartboard actually supports multi-touch. And even if it did, Etoys would have to be modified to support it, just like I did for the iPad version.
- Bert -
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
I doubt that Smartboard actually supports multi-touch. And even if it did, Etoys would have to be modified to support it, just like I did for the iPad version.
OK - I won't make multitouch a priority. I think that maintaining image patches (and perhaps even vm patches) for numerous brands of multitouch devices may become a bit of a headache for Squeak/Etoys community coordination.
On 25.02.2011, at 09:23, David Corking wrote:
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
I doubt that Smartboard actually supports multi-touch. And even if it did, Etoys would have to be modified to support it, just like I did for the iPad version.
OK - I won't make multitouch a priority. I think that maintaining image patches (and perhaps even vm patches) for numerous brands of multitouch devices may become a bit of a headache for Squeak/Etoys community coordination.
We have managed to support all devices and operating systems with a single image so far. There is no need to worry that would not be possible in the future. The patches only have not been integrated because multi-touch is still in its early stages of support.
But as far as I know, Smartboard only emulates a multi-button mouse, not a multi-touch device. If you know otherwise, what protocol are they using?
OTOH, a Wii-remote based white board would support multi-touch. That might be a fun project to explore.
- Bert -
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
But as far as I know, Smartboard only emulates a multi-button mouse, not a multi-touch device. If you know otherwise, what protocol are they using?
As far as open protocols you are probably correct.
The latest SMART brand products apparently support multiple simultaneous users.
http://www.smarttech.com/us/Support/Browse+Support/Product+Index/Hardware+Pr...
However (a) these won't be common in schools for many years and (b) I imagine applications need to use SMART's proprietary API (called 'Digital Ink' I think): at least there is no mention otherwise in the user guide I downloaded.
(Maybe users of other brands of board have more luck. I conclude that mouse emulation by proprietary boards is the lowest common factor, and for that reason it is useful to investigate.)
I have a single touch tablet computer with a 75 mm (3 inch) screen that I will experiment with one day - though I think it will never be practical for Etoys to support a finger on such a tiny screen. Stylus operation is reasonable.
Netbook tablets with open protocols are probably the most important. I imagine we will get open protocols from the XO 1.75 and XO 3 : presumably commercial pressure will grow for other hardware vendors to support that protocol. Multiplayer activities on a single tablet screen may not be fertile ground to plough.
David
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:22 AM, David Corking lists@dcorking.com wrote:
The most exciting possibility to me is to see two or more students work on an Etoys world at the same time. Bert mentions multiple pointers in his video. (The classroom will be empty so I won't see students this time, but I do have two hands!)
So one project I designed with a multi-touch wii-mote in mind is Chaos Game v 2 http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444 has a flap at the bottom "My Notes" which if you read through was part of my talk at squeakfest. Page 2 has a "two player" version where multiple kids can be at the board, pull up the flap to see the rest of the notes.
Stephen
Steve Thomas wrote:
So one project I designed with a multi-touch wii-mote in mind is Chaos Game v 2 http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444
...
Page 2 has a "two player" version where multiple kids can be at the board,
That is quite beautiful (though I still managed to pick ugly colours on page 5 :( ) I didn't not imagine the scripts for the random simulation would be so brief.
Even though multiplayer won't work, I will burn it on my CD to take to school. I hope every group with a wiimote whiteboard plays this! (I imagine that it could also be adapted for Nebraska shared worlds one day.)
Best, David
On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:22 AM, David Corking lists@dcorking.com wrote:
Steve Thomas wrote:
So one project I designed with a multi-touch wii-mote in mind is Chaos
Game v 2 http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444 I didn't not imagine the scripts for the random simulation would be so brief.
Credit for the scripts go to Kazuhiro Abe who posted Sierepinski Gasket herehttp://squeakland.jp/seaside/SBSuperSwiki/bc057ef8-aacb-40a8-a990-14951d8c12e3?_s=oOBTigsCHXdGvMCB&_k=MEXSyPiI
Even though multiplayer won't work,
More accurately multi-touch will not work on a SmartBoard. Multi-player should still be fine, other than when two or more kids touch the board at the same time. Then I imagine that when they don't get a response they will simply touch again.
Stephen
On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:51 AM, Steve Thomas wrote:
(about Chaos Game v 2 http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444 )
Even though multiplayer won't work,
More accurately multi-touch will not work on a SmartBoard. Multi-player should still be fine, other than when two or more kids touch the board at the same time. Then I imagine that when they don't get a response they will simply touch again.
Of course - thanks for clarifying. I imagined the same think after I wrote that. Lets find out what happens when someone tests it under pressure of two teams of enthusiastic gamers. It seems very unlikely indeed (to me) that there would be problems playing the game on page 2 with a single-touch device :)
David
(p.s. another alternative for a classroom with multiple computers would be to share the toy in a Croquet/OpenCobalt world.)
On Fri, Feb 25, I wrote:
In a few days time, I hope to get an hour in an empty classroom with one of these boards.
...
I will take Etoys to Go 4.1.1,
...
My time is limited, so my tests will be brief, not thorough, and will omit many of the things I want to try.
I had the use of a single touch SMART brand board. The evaluation went surprisingly well. Etoys was very responsive, and was mostly easy to control. For me and the other testers, a board makes a nice drawing surface that mostly allows finer control than a mouse. An acquaintance observing said we should all have one at home!
My first serious concern is the green heading vector of a morph. It is impossible to shift-click to drag it as far as I can tell. It would be nice to propose an alternative control or gesture (as otherwise, the user will probably walk over to the PC and use the mouse/keyboard - they might as well have a regular projector.)
My second concern is balloon help, which I mentioned already.
I will post more detailed comments on the wiki eventually.
Best, David
squeakland@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Bert Freudenberg -
David Corking -
Steve Thomas