Squeak-dev December 1998

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125 participants
236 discussions

Re: Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online
by Ian Piumarta 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

> I wonder if we can actually get statistics to see if the downloads > and site hit rate goes up? quick and dirty stats for //alix.inria.fr/pub/squeak/*: Tue Dec 22 59 (as of 19h51 MET) Mon Dec 21 145 Sun Dec 20 0 Sat Dec 19 0 Fri Dec 18 164 Thu Dec 17 170 Wed Dec 16 203 Tue Dec 15 289 Mon Dec 14 71 Sun Dec 13 0 Sat Dec 12 0 Fri Dec 11 38 Thu Dec 10 72 Wed Dec 9 32 Although most people will be probably be downloading from UIUC... If you want serious statistics then mail me in a week or so and I'll extract more realistic numbers for downloads of what looks like an entire Squeak distribution. On what date did the article first appear? One thing is clear from the numbers for weekends: the average Squeaker has a life that extends beyond the computer. ;o) Ian

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RE: Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online
by Van Rooy, Russell 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

You can't keep something this great (Squeak) down on the farm forever. It (is)was only a matter of time before Squeak would start to turn some heads. Squeak is its own best advertisement. Any programmer who is frustrated by Squeak not "interoperating" (which in fact it does if you look close), or not looking like VB etc...is a follower and not a leader. When the leaders discover Squeak , the followers will follow. Long Live Squeak ! -Russ Van Rooy ( not a leader nor a follower just a very naughty technoid ) -----Original Message----- From: Jarvis, Robert P. [mailto:Jarvisb@timken.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 10:14 AM To: 'squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu' Subject: RE: Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online What I'm concerned will happen is that sixteen zillion Java programmers will see this and think, "Kewl! A new way to do <applets/beans/whatever>!!". They'll flood the Squeak servers with downloads, will get turned off when it doesn't look-and-feel like C or VB, has no "sandbox" (litter box? :-), doesn't do <applets/beans/whatever>, doesn't "interoperate" with Java/VBScript/whatever, and the next article written will be titled "Squeak Fails To Live Up To Promise". <sigh> Journalists... Bob Jarvis The Timken Company > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Rowledge [SMTP:rowledge@interval.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 12:45 PM > To: Squeak mailinglist > Subject: RE: Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online > > On Tue 22 Dec, Jarvis, Robert P. wrote: > > Journalists... <sigh> What I find especially aggravating - perhaps > even > > chilling - is the last line of the article... "Sounds to me like a > better > > Java". Eeek. > > > Interesting - that's the bit I found oddly reassuring. It's certainly a > good > sales pitch in todays world... 'Oh yeah, we do that - but we do this as > well, > and have done for a long time. Like java but better'. > I've learnt again and again how difficult it is to get anything > satisfactory > into any magazine; a case in point was the first time a mag wrote about my > motorcycle building projects. The journo asked me to jot down all the > techy > details myself 'so nothing inportant would get forgotten'. The article > appeared > with verbatim material from those notes wrapped in quotation marks as if > I'd > said them in an interview. Oddly enough, it didn't read at all well! > It keeps happening and I keep hoping it'll get better. > > -- > Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later. - Brook > Tim Rowledge: rowledge(a)interval.com (w) +1 (650) 842-6110 (w) > tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu (h) <http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim>

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RE: Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online
by Tim Rowledge 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

On Tue 22 Dec, Jarvis, Robert P. wrote: > Journalists... <sigh> What I find especially aggravating - perhaps even > chilling - is the last line of the article... "Sounds to me like a better > Java". Eeek. > Interesting - that's the bit I found oddly reassuring. It's certainly a good sales pitch in todays world... 'Oh yeah, we do that - but we do this as well, and have done for a long time. Like java but better'. I've learnt again and again how difficult it is to get anything satisfactory into any magazine; a case in point was the first time a mag wrote about my motorcycle building projects. The journo asked me to jot down all the techy details myself 'so nothing inportant would get forgotten'. The article appeared with verbatim material from those notes wrapped in quotation marks as if I'd said them in an interview. Oddly enough, it didn't read at all well! It keeps happening and I keep hoping it'll get better. -- Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later. - Brook Tim Rowledge: rowledge(a)interval.com (w) +1 (650) 842-6110 (w) tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu (h) <http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim>

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RE: Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online
by Jarvis, Robert P. 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

What I'm concerned will happen is that sixteen zillion Java programmers will see this and think, "Kewl! A new way to do <applets/beans/whatever>!!". They'll flood the Squeak servers with downloads, will get turned off when it doesn't look-and-feel like C or VB, has no "sandbox" (litter box? :-), doesn't do <applets/beans/whatever>, doesn't "interoperate" with Java/VBScript/whatever, and the next article written will be titled "Squeak Fails To Live Up To Promise". <sigh> Journalists... Bob Jarvis The Timken Company > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Rowledge [SMTP:rowledge@interval.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 12:45 PM > To: Squeak mailinglist > Subject: RE: Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online > > On Tue 22 Dec, Jarvis, Robert P. wrote: > > Journalists... <sigh> What I find especially aggravating - perhaps > even > > chilling - is the last line of the article... "Sounds to me like a > better > > Java". Eeek. > > > Interesting - that's the bit I found oddly reassuring. It's certainly a > good > sales pitch in todays world... 'Oh yeah, we do that - but we do this as > well, > and have done for a long time. Like java but better'. > I've learnt again and again how difficult it is to get anything > satisfactory > into any magazine; a case in point was the first time a mag wrote about my > motorcycle building projects. The journo asked me to jot down all the > techy > details myself 'so nothing inportant would get forgotten'. The article > appeared > with verbatim material from those notes wrapped in quotation marks as if > I'd > said them in an interview. Oddly enough, it didn't read at all well! > It keeps happening and I keep hoping it'll get better. > > -- > Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later. - Brook > Tim Rowledge: rowledge(a)interval.com (w) +1 (650) 842-6110 (w) > tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu (h) <http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim>

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primaryHand
by Leandro Caniglia 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

The multi-hand support of Squeak gets compromised by improper use of the #primaryHand message. For example, in some circumstances if the user, using a hand different from the primary, invokes a pop-up menu, then the menu is popped-up by the primary hand, not by the user's hand. This happens because of the ScrollPane|#yellowButtonActivity: method implementation. On the other way, the method PluggableTextMorph|#scrollBarMenuButtonPressed: correctly uses the event hand. The EventRecorderMorph I'm working on is very good for making this problem quite apparent. For example, when playing back a recorded sequence of events, the "active" hand is a second hand, not the primary one. Thus, the playback gets confused when a pop-up menu goes to the primary hand instead of the playing hand. Since there are lots of senders of #primaryHand, it is not possible to patch all of them. But I think the problem gets partially solved looking only for the senders of primaryHand lastEvent. In 2.2 there are only 5 methods sending this message. I think that an acceptable change could be to replace primaryHand with activeHand in at least one of them: ScrollPane|#yellowButtonActivity:. ScrollPane|yellowButtonActivity: shiftKeyState | menu event | (menu _ self getMenu: shiftKeyState) ifNotNil: [event _ self activeHand lastEvent. menu setInvokingView: self. menu popUpAt: event cursorPoint event: event] World|activeHand ^ (self world ifNil: [^ nil]) activeHand

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Another mainstream article about Squeak at PCWeek Online
by Glenn Ehrlich 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/columns/0,4351,381169,00.html

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Re: Porting troubles from 0x80000000 bit
by Dwight Hughes 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

Georg Gollman has posted a filein for 2.3beta to create a 32bit clean VM: http://macos.tuwien.ac.at/Squeak/32bitClean.st -- Dwight Paul Fernhout wrote: > > Georg (or other VM implementors) - > Did any final resolution come on your proposal (below) to make Squeak 32 > bit clean? Has an implementation like it been done, and do you still > think it would work?

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re: problem with sockets
by Craig Latta 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

(a slightly modified version of a message I just sent to John Maloney...) Hi-- On the Mac, OpenTransport's TCP/IP interface (which includes support for UDP) is enough like the Berkeley interface so as not to affect the Smalltalk primitive interface I designed. No add-on library is needed, and no library source need be included in the virtual machine. Have others found otherwise? Given that OpenTransport has a sufficient library, I think the licensing issue is moot. We seem to be content to lack source for Winsock on Microsoft Windows, for example. I'm assume this is obvious, I just mention it for completeness... I should also note how nice it is when you actually *can* look at the socket C library source (as on Linux). It makes porting to Secret Hardware much easier. :) The online OpenTransport reference is pretty good. I would start at http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/NetworkingOT/NetworkingWOT-52.html. > The code needs to work under Mac OS 7.x as well as 8.x and on both the > PPC and 68K. My sense is that both PPC and 68K machines running Mac OS 7.6 or later run OpenTransport okay. I'm not sure how much memory has to be in the machine, but I fear it's something like 24MB. I had a hard time getting technical information from Apple about their older systems. They would seem to prefer that the world forget all about them. :| The best information seems to come from USENET archives (e.g., search for "+OpenTransport +MacTCP +FAQ" in the complete DejaNews archive). It seems to me that GUSI is useful if you're stuck with MacTCP, but I think we should dump MacTCP and use OpenTransport. Non-blocking socket access requires process synchronization. In addition to a sockets library, the host platform needs to provide threads. I didn't find any information about using threads on old Macs; newer Macs have the "Thread Manager". If there's demand for it, we could make platform thread use optional. Not using threads would make some socket operations block the virtual machine, as I think happens with the current Squeak networking. happy solstice... -C -- Craig Latta composer and computer scientist craig.latta(a)netjam.org www.netjam.org latta(a)interval.com Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

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RE: problem with sockets
by JENS＠ejs.is 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

On Monday, December 21, 1998 7:46 PM, johnm(a)wdi.disney.com [SMTP:johnm@wdi.disney.com] wrote: > Hi, Mike. > > > ... I think that, for networking, TCP/IP and Berkeley sockets are the way to go. > > I agree. I would also like to add UDP some day as well. But I think > TCP/IP makes a great cross-platform inter-application communication > mechanism, even among processes on the same machine. > > -- John Yes, but that's on a too low level for my tastes. Inter-application (even inter-component) communication should be done through an ORB (like CORBA), in my opinion. It gives you much more flexibility. Jens

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yet still more about that problem with sockets
by Craig Latta 22 Dec '98

22 Dec '98

Dang! 'Sorry for yet another message on this topic, but I forgot to mention... Apple sez on their developer website that the next version of Mac OS (Mac OS X) will not support MacTCP, only OpenTransport. -C -- Craig Latta composer and computer scientist craig.latta(a)netjam.org www.netjam.org latta(a)interval.com Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

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