Squeak-dev November 2000

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106 participants
325 discussions

Re: Character recognition (was: Re: Return key...)
by Bruce ONeel 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

I think you can get 90+% of the way there without even registering. The X development tools require registering though... cheers bruce Lawson English <english(a)primenet.com> wrote: > Unless it is top secret in some way, simply registering as an > online-developer with Apple should get you access to virtually all Mac > programming documentation. > > There's no NDA for most of this stuff. > > on 11/3/00 10:44 AM, Henrik Gedenryd at Henrik.Gedenryd(a)lucs.lu.se wrote: > > > Alan Kay wrote: > > > >> BTW, Nathanial Shaerli spent the summer with us and did an > >> absolutely fantastic character recognizer that he also beautifully > >> integrated within morphic, and which includes a terrific UI for > >> understanding what the recognizer understands and for making changes, > >> new integrations, etc. > >> We plan to put this out when the current spate of big internal > >> changes to Squeak settles down in a month or so, but he might be > >> induced to send out his changeset earlier for those who are curious. > > > > How hard would it be to write a plugin that would let you use the touchpad > > of a PowerBook (etc.) as a writing pad? > > > > (The regular "finger" recognizer doesn't recognize a stylus, it's imprint is > > too small I guess.) > > > > It would work like the UPS-guys' boxes where you sign for your delivery on a > > small touchpad-like square. This would give much greater accessibility to > > pen-based input since you don't need to buy any special hardware or a have a > > PDA with a touch screen. (And you wouldn't have to develop the recognizer on > > a 240x160 screen :-) > > > > The first hurdle would be to find out about the calls needed to access the > > trackpad hardware directly. From this I guess you would read off grid > > coordinates just like "regular" pen devices. Aside from the hardware access, > > the rest of the code would be portable to other platforms. > > > > The way to find out about this "unofficial" hardware-access call, I was > > told, would be as an official, registered Apple developer. Anyone? It's far > > beyond my hobbyist budget. Given that access I could certainly not resist > > the temptation of making it work. > > > > I envision having "recognizer" objects that you train with your handwriting > > style, and that you can move between images or share with others. > > -- > Reform is a state of mind. > Vote with your mind, from your heart. > Vote Reform, vote Hagelin 2000. > Lawson English Tucson, Arizona > --

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Re: [GOODIE] Mpeg3Plugin.so for Linux
by Karl Ramberg 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

"Raab, Andreas" wrote: > > > Ok in MPEGPlayer>>videoLoop: I do > > > > self form displayOn: Display. > > > > And you are saying this should be? > > Yup. That sounds right to me. But beware that the common Image/Sketch morphs > use #paintImage: to which my original comment applies. > > - Andreas I can confirm that frame drop out is much higher when displayed on a morph. Karl

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[FIX] SequenceableCollection>>atAll: doesn't work for OrderedCollection
by Doug Way 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

This was one of the OOPSLA / Camp Smalltalk 3 fixes. >From the preamble: Change Set: SeqCollAtAllFix Date: 15 October 2000 Author: Andrew Black Bug fix implemented at OOPSLA 2000 Camp Smalltalk. The bug was that #atAll: #(3 2) worked for Arrays but not for OrderedCollections.

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[FIX/ENH] Image Save As... Doesn't Allow Overwrite
by Doug Way 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

This was one of the OOPSLA / Camp Smalltalk 3 fixes. >From the preamble: Change Set: CS3-ImageOverwrite Date: 3 November 2000 Author: Michael Hewner, Doug Way, Camp Smalltalk 3 @ OOPSLA Fixes a problem where if you tried to do a 'save as...' over an existing image, an error notifier appeared. This enhances things so that a confirmation pop-up appears asking if you're sure you want to overwrite, which you can say Yes or No to. (This ended up involving a fair amount of work, including adding a force-copy operation to FileDirectory, and some refactoring was done along with this.)

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[FIX] Morphic Scrollbar Repositioning
by Doug Way 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

This was one of the OOPSLA / Camp Smalltalk 3 fixes. >From the preamble: Change Set: CS3-ScrollBarPositionFix Date: 5 November 2000 Author: Doug Way, Camp Smalltalk 3 @ OOPSLA Fixes a longtime problem with updating the position of the scrollbar when the contents of a scroll pane increases or decreases significantly in length. Basically, the scrollbar position was not being updated before, and now it is. Also refactors things so that SimpleHierarchicalListMorph>>setScrollDeltas is removed. (The bug is easiest to reproduce in an object explorer, if you expand things and scroll down so that the scrollbar thumb is in the middle of its range, and then expand an item in the explorer which has a lot of children. Then if you click on the up arrow in the scrollbar, the pane will skip to the wrong place because the scrollbar position hadn't been updated.)

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OOPSLA Squeak Bug Fixing Party results
by Doug Way 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

I meant to send this out sooner, but here we go: The "Squeak Bug Fixing Party" at Camp Smalltalk #3 @ OOPSLA was a success! It was a fairly low-key affair, but it was a good way for people to contribute and hack at Squeak, even if they only had a few hours to spare at OOPSLA. (Some of us were diverted to work on the Refactoring Browser port for Squeak for a time, too.) The main players were Michael Hewner, Mathieu van Echtelt, Andrew Black and myself, plus a few other occasional contributors. We fixed four bugs (#1, 2, 3, 10), and made partial progress on a fifth bug (#4). (These are the bugs listed on this web page: http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/CampSmalltalk/Squeak+Bug+Fixing+Party . Also, Bob Arning informed me that #7 was recently fixed in the latest 2.9alpha updates. Yay!) I'm going to submit the four fixes to the list separately right after I send this message. I think they're all worthy of inclusion in the base image, although it's always good to have someone (SMA) look them over as part of the usual submission process. I've tested them all in the current 2.9alpha-2879 image. The fifth partial bugfix/enhancement (#4) is on my webspace if anyone wants to look at it. It was an attempt to make ParagraphEditor text selection non-global, so that you could see highlighting in more than one text pane at a time. A non-trivial task... maybe we'll try to finish it at next year's OOPSLA. :-) It's at http://www.mindspring.com/~dway/smalltalk/CS3/CS3-TextSelection.cs . Thanks to everyone who participated. - Doug Way dway(a)riskmetrics.com p.s. for reference, here are the original descriptions from the web page of the 4 1/2 bugs that were fixed: 1. Morphic Scrollbar Repositioning The Morphic scrollbar does not reposition its slider correctly when additional content is inserted into a ScrollPane. (E.g., if you have 100 lines of text in a Workspace which only shows 10 lines visible at a time, delete lines 20-50 with the mouse by selecting upward and then deleting. Then, if you click on the slider in the scrollbar (without sliding it), the text will jump down several lines. A similar problem happens in the Object Explorer.) 2. Morphic Window Resize with Overhanging Scrollbar With the inboardScrollbar preference set to true, if you open an Inspector window and resize it to its minimum size, you will not be able to grab the bottom of the SystemWindow (via the yellow dot) to resize it. This happens whenever the inboard scrollbar "overhangs" the bottom of a pane... it also often happens in the top pane of a hierarchy browser, for example. 3. Image Save As... Doesn't Allow Overwrite Executing a "save as..." operation from the main menu should bring up a yes/no confirmation prompt if you try to save over an exiting image, rather than bringing up an error notifier. (Should be simple.) 4. Debugger Text Window Loses Selection After selecting a line in the Debugger stack, moving the mouse in and out of the source code pane causes the selection in the code pane to dissappear. The selection should show which message is being sent. (This one may be tricky.) 10. SequenceableCollection>>atAll: doesn't work for OrderedCollection (Posted by John G. to the Squeak list on 8/25/2000.) "(OrderedCollection with: 1 with: 2 with: 3) atAll: #(2)" fails on my 2.8 squeak because within SequenceableCollection->atAll: we have "newCollection _ self species new: indexArray size." and newCollection, if I understand this, is created with (OrderedCollection new: 1), which has lastIndex set to 0, which then causes at:put: to fail. (atAll: seems to work properly for Arrays/Strings, but not OrderedCollections.)

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RE: [GOODIE] Mpeg3Plugin.so for Linux
by Raab, Andreas 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

Ah! Now I remember. Simple enough - don't use Form>>paint for drawing, use Form>>over (its also faster). E.g., instead of Canvas>>paintImage: use Canvas>>drawImage: for displaying the form. The trick is that Form>>paint interprets a zero pixel to be transparent so you see what's behind rather than a solid black. - Andreas > -----Original Message----- > From: John M McIntosh [mailto:johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 9:20 PM > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Cc: recipient list not shown > Subject: RE: [GOODIE] Mpeg3Plugin.so for Linux > > > >John, > > > >> >There are artefacts, little rectangles not update for a few > >> >frames - I don't know if this is a performance issue. Audio > >> >is faster than video, they're out of sync. And for some files, > >> >it crashes after a while. > >> > >> Andreas mentioned something about transparency at OOPSLA, not sure > >> what should go in the Alpha byte, or if it was a bug? in > morphic. If > >> Andreas is listening perhaps he could comment on what the > issue is. > > > >Perhaps you could explain what the problem is?! ;-) I have no idea > >whatsoever why an alpha byte should cause artifacts and I > also don't quite > >remember what we were talking about transparency at OOPSLA > and how it could > >be related to the MPEG stuff. > > > > - Andreas > > This was the issue of getting small white rectanges when playing mpeg > movies in morphic, the area in question should be black black black. > I asked about that when I was demoing at OOPSLA and I thought you > said it was a problem with transparency? > -- > -- > ============================================================== > ============= > John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> 1-800-477-2659 > Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== Custom Macintosh programming & various Smalltalk dialects PGP Key: DSS/Diff/46FC3BE6 Fingerprint=B22F 7D67 92B7 5D52 72D7 E94A EE69 2D21 46FC 3BE6 ===========================================================================

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RE: [GOODIE] Mpeg3Plugin.so for Linux
by John M McIntosh 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

>John, > >> >There are artefacts, little rectangles not update for a few >> >frames - I don't know if this is a performance issue. Audio >> >is faster than video, they're out of sync. And for some files, >> >it crashes after a while. >> >> Andreas mentioned something about transparency at OOPSLA, not sure >> what should go in the Alpha byte, or if it was a bug? in morphic. If >> Andreas is listening perhaps he could comment on what the issue is. > >Perhaps you could explain what the problem is?! ;-) I have no idea >whatsoever why an alpha byte should cause artifacts and I also don't quite >remember what we were talking about transparency at OOPSLA and how it could >be related to the MPEG stuff. > > - Andreas This was the issue of getting small white rectanges when playing mpeg movies in morphic, the area in question should be black black black. I asked about that when I was demoing at OOPSLA and I thought you said it was a problem with transparency? -- -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> 1-800-477-2659 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== Custom Macintosh programming & various Smalltalk dialects PGP Key: DSS/Diff/46FC3BE6 Fingerprint=B22F 7D67 92B7 5D52 72D7 E94A EE69 2D21 46FC 3BE6 ===========================================================================

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Re: [GOODIE] Mpeg3Plugin.so for Linux
by John M McIntosh 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

>On Sat, 4 Nov 2000, Andrew C. Greenberg wrote: > >> >I have thrown out all the "#define MACINTOSH" . This should not be in the >> >sourcecode anyway. >> >> Why not? Ideally, one source file should serve all. > >There where "#define MACINTOSH" all over the place. I did not touch the >"#ifdef MACINTOSH" ... > >-- Bert Ya, that's my fault it was REALLY REALLY late, or early in the morning and I was tired and busy comparing the original with my hacks (er changes). This is going to change to TARGET_OS_MAC which is defined by the macintosh compiler environment, thus making it easier to work with in a multi-platform environment. -- -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> 1-800-477-2659 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com =========================================================================== Custom Macintosh programming & various Smalltalk dialects PGP Key: DSS/Diff/46FC3BE6 Fingerprint=B22F 7D67 92B7 5D52 72D7 E94A EE69 2D21 46FC 3BE6 ===========================================================================

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Re: Character recognition (was Re: Return...)
by Alan Kay 05 Nov '00

05 Nov '00

Might be worth a try. I think anyone that is actually concerned might try them and see what happens .... Cheers, Alan ---- At 5:24 PM -0500 11/4/00, Kevin Fisher wrote: >Hi Alan, et al: > >I've been following this discussion with interest...has anyone considered >contacting BountyQuest about this? (http://www.bountyquest.com/) > >Supposedly they will help debunk silly patents if you can find examples of >prior art...which in this case we seem to have in abundance. > >I'm not sure how effective BountyQuest is since I've only recently seen them >mentioned in the press, but it may be worth a shot.. Supposedly Jeff Bezos >helped to found this thing and even put a bounty up on his 1-click shopping >patent. > > >> Thanks Duane -- >> >> I looked at the patent and I don't anything particularly new, >> especially with respect to their claims. Gabe Groner's 1960s recog >> had all the features in Xeerox's and in Grafitti. (And BTW there are >> any number of good free recognizers that have been derived from the >> GRAIL one and from Ken Ledeen's, like a wonderful one by Steve >> Purcell at MIT/Harvard in the 70s). >> The reason I had not heard of Xerox's is that I left Xerox in >> 1980 and the patent in question was granted in 1997 to someone I >> don't know. >> >> Here is a pernicious situation, where the incompetence of the US >> Patent organization has loosed yet another nuisance out into the >> world. Because of the clear prior art from the sixties, most modern >> character recognition will be found derivative of ideas that have >> been in the public domain for decades. But why should companies still >> be allowed to take actions in such cases that then will require time, >> energy, court costs, etc., to merely get back to ground zero? You can >> imagine that I have been involved as a deposition witness in many >> many dispiriting disputes over ideas whose provenance is clear, but >> that have been wrongly patented. >> I believe that the entire US patent system has been broken to a >> deep enough extent for a long enough time to be absolutely useless in >> carrying out its charter functions. Fortunately, they weren't willing >> to even start patenting programs until the very late 70s or maybe >> even the early 80s. The first suits involving SW that I had to >> testify at were in the early 80s, involved "look and feel", and the >> deep legal precedents that were used were based on a ca. 1910 patent >> on player piano roles(!) This is how bad the whole area is. It's like >> radioactive pollution seeping into the drinking water. >> >> Here is a wierd idea with regard to this particular subject. Gabe >> Groner's recognizer fit into 2K of the 360/44 at RAND that was used >> as a single-user (yes!) machine for GRAIL. I don't know where Gabe is >> these days (or Ken Ledeen), but like the rest of us geezers from the >> 60s, they are likely still alive and kicking. Squeak can emulate the >> various machine codes of the 360 much faster than it could run them >> itself -- Dan's emulation of the Alto to make Smalltalk-72 run again >> is 20 times faster than the original Alto. >> So getting the original code from Gabe and emulating it would >> give you a workable recognizer that CAN'T infringe those patents. >> Come to think of it, somewhere we do have the Smalltalk-76 >> Ledeen-type recog code, and it CAN'T INFRINGE for the same reasons. >> Moreover, I believe that any recog simply implemented from one >> of these writeups, like Gabe's and like Sproull's of the Ledeen), >> can't infringe -- though anyone can be paid to argue this, if >> meaninglessly. >> >> With regard to the current recognizer (and most recognizers). If your >> tablet supplies subpixel resolution (the good ones do) and it is set >> to bypass the "convert to mouse" SW, then you can draw very small >> characters and have them recognized (you should antialias the strokes >> also). >> However, Nathanial's is so good that I've been using it instead >> of the one-pager now in Squeak. With a smart recog like his, one > > careful training session will fit most people without any further >> training. >> >> It would be a good idea to trace the provenance of Ken Perlin's >> ideas. The particular idea of using direction strokes as meanings has >> been around for a very long time, so this could be yet another >> nuisance patent ... >> >> Cheers, >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> At 5:35 PM -0800 11/3/00, Duane Maxwell wrote: >> > >>Sorry to "poop in the punchbowl" again, but I've recently >>been reviewing >> >>>the rulings in the Xerox v. Palm Computing case wherein Xerox >>attempted to >> >>>assert its patent rights in single-stroke character recognition systems. >> >> >> >>Do you have a reference to this patent (I wasn't aware of any patent). >> > >> >The Xerox Unistroke patent is Patent No. 5,596,656, received January, 1997. >> >The inventor is listed as David Goldberg. Xerox sued 3Com in April 1997, >> >and the case was dismissed in June 2000. The patent was held valid, but >> >3Com was found non-infringing due to certain technicalities, namely the >> >occasional use of multiple strokes (for instance, X), and identical strokes >> >being interpreted differently based on where they're made (ie. letters >> >versus number areas). In my non-legal opinion, 3Com won because of >> >mistakes that Xerox made developing the patent - assuming the patent had no >> >prior art. >> > >> >http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05596656__ >> > >> >I'm afraid I can't find the patent that Palm has, though I remember seeing >> >it - it was apparently acquired from some external developer, back when >> >they were with 3Com and it was still called US Robotics. The code was >> >apparently originally developed and deployed for the Newton. >> > >> >>Not possible. The current one was derived very directly from the >> >>original GRAIL recognizer at RAND done by Gabe Groner in 1965 (and >> >>written up in a RAND report in 1966). Sponsored by ARPA and free to >> >>all (as it should be). It was the original and truly great single >> >>stroke recognizer. I have a great movie of it from the late sixties. >> > >> >I'm sure you're right, but at the moment, the patent is in force. >> > >> >>Patents are granted willy nilly these days. The patent office long >> >>ago wimped out on trying to vet patents and have left matters up to >> >>the courts (a terrible situation that gives rise to an infinity of >> >>useless and usually meaningless disputes). >> > >> >Yes, we know :) >> > >> >> This is why there are a number of companies in Silicon Valley >> >>that do nothing but demo prior art on old machines. >> > >> >I think many people would be happy if this group of patents were >>invalidated. >> > >> >(Re: QuikWriting): >> >>Well, maybe I should try to talk to Ken about all of us being able to >> >>use it. (I'm personally not a big fan of QuikWriting, but it would be >> >>fun to have in Squeak.) >> > >> >It was a very quick hack to write (about two hours) and is somewhat more >> >reliable than the current recognizer in that it doesn't need to be taught. >> >Other than that, I would agree that it falls in the "isn't that neat" >> >category with a number of other Squeak features. We developed it because >> >we have some keyboardless tablets and didn't want to teach anything - >> >besides which the current recognizer needs some "breathing room" that makes >> >it unsuitable for filling in little text boxes. >> > >> >Good luck with Ken - although I think he assigned it to NYU and the last >> >time I looked, they actively peddled licenses on their site. >> > >> >-- Duane

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