Squeak-dev March 2002

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

169 participants
610 discussions

Re: Squeak as a toy for developer's of Squeak -- not a developer's tool
by Frank Sergeant 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

Serg Koren <Serg(a)VisualNewt.com> wrote: I find what I perceive to be your message a little confusing. > " Sure, people are improving it day by day. It's just that most of that > activity is happening on the list where it is semi-public." > > There are NO other Squeak lists...are there? > So why isn't there a newbie-list? Which has been asked for previously on > here...or at least a DIGEST version that doesn't flood a newbie with > 100s of to them, useless emails. THIS LIST IS *NOT* NEWBIE (much less, > "user") FRIENDLY! Well, do you just want a "Thank you for your suggestion" type of an answer? The only other answer that seems to make sense to me is to say that none of us is stopping you from starting such a list. On the other hand, no one here has an obligation to start such a list. > The point is they don't promote Squeak for NEW users, but to those who > like the thrill of working on THEIR pet project. "Developer's toy" > again. Unless this mindset changes, Squeak will always remain a "niche" > toy (a "toy" language--in the programming meaning of the word "toy") for > developers, by developers, and only those developers who have an > interest in playing with the toy rather than using the toy. It will > never become a useful TOOL for software developers. The point of Squeak > shouldn't be to allow a select group of Smalltalk fiends to test out > their own pet projects, but a SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT TOOL, others should > be able to use with minimal pain. But, but, but ... the point of Squeak can be anything to anyone. Each of us "owns" Squeak. I would be thoroughly delighted if you would work on making it better and promoting it as a software development tool. Of course, you don't owe it to me to do that but neither does anyone else owe it. "We already have to much to do" (an XP saying, I believe). > Also, the mentality of "if you want it, or suggest it, you own it and > should do it" is very demeaning...one of I'm superior and I have more > important things to work on and you SHOULD be smart enough to do it > yourself. Get it through your heads; not everyone with a good > suggestion IS a Squeak/Smalltalk expert. I don't see it as demeaning. It seems to me you have inferred obligations exist which I do not believe exist. Don't you think that shouting "Get it through your heads ..." could be interpreted as either demeaning or insulting? > Suggestions: > a) Create a newbie list targeted at USERS. > b) Create a core Squeak product that allows you to code in Smalltalk AND > NOTHING ELSE. Make it expandable if the person wants to grow later. > c) Give it a good interface (Sorry, but even Morphic looks like the > diagrams in the original Smalltalk books I have). > d) Provide a comprehensive, SIMPLE to understand, user manual. > e) Provide a comprehensive, SIMPLE Squeak/Smalltalk manual. > f) Change your attitude toward people who know less than you do. If you do not wish to produce one or more of the above, how can you demand anyone else do it? We are all in the same boat with regard to "owning" Squeak. Each one sets his own priorities. If you say, "yes, but I don't have the skills", then that is fine providing you do not add "and therefore someone else owes it to me". Work on what you can; work on what it pleases you to work on, and inspire others rather than berating them? (Do I fail to follow my own advice? I hope not; I really do intend this with goodwill.) > Sorry if I'm upsetting a few people on here. But I mean well. I'm > trying to get Squeak out of its closet. If I upset you, then obviously, > you are one of the people that NEEDS to change... The first three sentences were ok, but the fourth spoiled it. -- Frank

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MVC experts, can you help?
by Mayuresh Kathe 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

Hi, Are there any people around here with decent enough command over MVC to answer a couple of questions? ~Mayuresh

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[ENH] ChangedOthersMethods-nk
by Ned Konz 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

from preamble: "Change Set: ChangedOthersMethods-nk Date: 30 March 2002 Author: Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> This adds a choice to the shifted change set menu in ChangeSorters and ChangeSetBrowsers (called 'check for any other authors') that will find any methods with historical versions that don't have your initials. This can be used to find other people's code that you've modified."!

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Some debugging output left in Debian 3.2gamma-4743-2 vm?
by Ken Causey 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

I've just downloaded ftp://st.cs.uiuc.edu/pub/Smalltalk/Squeak/3.2gamma/unix/debian/dists/sid/no… and ftp://st.cs.uiuc.edu/pub/Smalltalk/Squeak/3.3alpha/Squeak3.3a-4798.zip and installed them. As soon as I started running this VM and image set I started getting what seems to be output related to mouse movement: 1 11745 160 585 0 0 0 0 1 11745 148 581 0 0 0 0 1 11745 136 577 0 0 0 0 1 11745 124 575 0 0 0 0 The output only seems to be generated while I move the mouse, although I suppose other mouse activity may generate it as well. I also updated my image but this hasn't made any difference. I'm not sure but I'm assuming for now that this is probably something in the VM itself, possibly debugging related to recent problems with mouse events. For now I guess I will just >/dev/null 2>&1. Ken Causey

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[ENH][FIX] IRCEnhancements-sbw - fixes problem introduced into Celeste when both installed
by swessels＠one.net 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

from preamble: "Change Set: IRCEnhancements-sbw Date: 28 February 2002 Author: Stephan B. Wessels GENERAL NOTES: The existing IRC cllient has been left alone and a subclassed client was created. For background IRC protocol information please see http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/. See (IRCConnectionEnhanced releaseNotes) for a workspace window containing all release notes. Key new features include: A new user interface having one console window per connection and then having all console messages, channel messages and private messages contained inside the main console window using tabbed swapped panes. Support was added for /WHOIS and /ACTION from the channel chat windows. Other windows do not have complete support for these commands yet. The channel messages text, private messages text, and console messages text panes are read-only. This allows you to put the cursor over either the input pane at the bottom or the actual text pane and begin typing. The input text you type is sent only to the input pane at the bottom. Copy and Find operations are still possible with the read-only text pane content. You can jump to a channel from the channels listing pane by one ot two techniques. First you can select a channel from the produced list. Second, you can use the Prompted Channel button and be asked for the name of a channel you want to join. The channel name does not need to appear in the list. Further a check is made against the channel name you enter and a # is prefixed if you left it off. The console Connect button indicates the state of the connection. It highlights in a color to indicate that you are connected. The label of the button also changes to Disconnect once you are connected. If your connection drops by itself, for some reason, the button color shows another color to indicate it was dropped and the button text is changed to Connect. The Channels list pane is a multi-column pane. The Refresh button also changes color to indicate that a refresh is active. A channel refresh action can take a while so the tag of the Refresh button also attempts to update with an indication of the number of channels fetched so far as an indicator of progress. The channel chat input pane performs Nick Completion. Anywhere on the input text line you are typing you can begin to type a few characters from the beginning of a channel Nick and hit the tab key. This will complete the nick tag for you. If there is more than one Nick that begin with the same characters, the tab key will rotate through them for you. You can also do Nick Completion multiple times on the same line of text. A leading tab on a channel chat input line is invalid and ignored. Also empty input lines are ignored. Highlilght your transmitted messages in the channel chat pane with a color. Also, messages that have your nick in them on the channel chat pane will be highlighted in another color. /ACTION is supported from the channel chat input. You can type in a command like /action looks around room and that message will be sent as an ACTION message to the channel. All ACTION messages are highlighed in the channel chat text pane in italics. The channell chat pane is formatted into 2 columns. The left most column is the nick and the next column to the right shows the typed text. New server configuraton dialogs. Includes the ability to tailor options while connected. Modification of connection parameters for the current session is prohibited while connected. Connection Profiles are supported. You can specify a unique set of connection parameters for any session and save them in a list. The options you select when you create a new profile are those of the current profile. Added a built-in table of many IRC servers you can choose from with a dialog window. You mayhave multiple console sessions open at the same time, each having a unique IRC server connection. The title of the console window reflects the basic parameters of that connected session. Added support for roll back/forward of previously typed text. Use the up and down arrow keys to scroll through text lines. /WHOIS command sends response from the server to your channel chat window now. Only sends private message to the Provate pane that are NOT already being sent to another private messages pane. That is, if you have a private messages pane open the responses there are no longer duplicated in the Private Messages window. Tabbed channel text and private chat panes have their tabs highlighted if messages appear there while you have another pane in front. You can use this feature to watch for activity on a channel or private chat. Channel member JOINS and PARTS are now logged to the channel chat text. There are options to disable this. An option is provided that supported INVITE requests. When you get an INVITE request to join another channel this option will allow automatic opening of that channel then adding you to the members there. An option is provided that automatically opens up a private chat window if you receive an unsolicitied private message. This can include server messages and NICKSERV messages. Added support for multiple line input to a channel and private chat pane. This allows you to know PASTE into a channel. Channel members are now listed in a logical order. Channel operators are at the top, followed by +voiced channel members and then normal members. Also, the nicks for operators are shown in red on the channel members list and the voiced members are show in another color. Added support for the /CLEAR command to console, private chat and channel chat windows. /CLEAR will clear the contents of the text pane. This command is not sent to the IRC server of course. Added /INSPECT to console, private and channel chat input pane commands. This will cause a Squeak Inspector to open up on the model for that text pane. Support provided for NICK change messages receieved from the IRC server. /NICK command is now supported from the channel chat input pane. Revisions History: (-n is change set revision number up until -41, when code was published). Entries made after that are by release date. Most recent at top. 30-mar-2002 Fixed a problem with the the multicolumn lists logic that impacted the email program Celeste. The problem does not exist in Celeste unless this program is also installed. This update fixes both. 11-mar-2002 #3 Cosmetic stuff. 11-mar-2002 #2 Moved TabbedSwappingControl to Morphic-Palettes system category. Renamed the change set. 11-mar-2002 #1 Channel chat user list menu is now context sensitive. Generalized communications paths software. Now have support for /ACTION command issued from a private message pane. There is a remaining issue with SERVER messages getting lost. 10-mar-2002 #2 Fixed a race condition when processing private IRC messages. The symptom was double lines of text appearing when a new window was first opened if created by an external private message send. The size of the looping collection was changing while it was being processed. More cosmetic tweaks. 10-mar-2002 #1 Code factoring around messages sends. This work is not complete but represents a first pass at new code paths. Fixed problem where channel users list was not getting updated if the case of the selected channel did not match the actual channel name EXACTLY. In IRC channel names are case in-sensitive. Some interesting cosmetic touches. Invite didn't update all panes the first time the channel window opened. Support of rcvd ACTION messages in private message windows. Note that /ACTION commands are not formatted properly in the display. Received ones are shown correctly. Private chat page had overlap on text and input panes. Added support for WHOIS in private chat window. Private message chat that opens up a new window shows the first line of text twice. 7-mar-2002 Added /EXPLORE as valid command. Mode change detection was buggy. Consequently there were problems identifying all operators and members having voice in a channel. Ordering of channel members is now case insensitive. 6-mar-2002 #1 Bug in editing a profile name was fixed. Added logging of commands in the console. Incorrectly setting our nick any time someone changes theirs. Oops. 5 mar 2002 #4 Added button to profiles dialog that saves the current configuration as a new profile. 5 mar 2002 #3 Server based messages that are posted to channel chat panes are now aligned with the columns of other member base chat traffic. 5 mar 2002 #2 More tweaks to the multi column headered morph so that headers show up even when the list is empty. Mode changes noted in channel chat now show NICK of person that initiated the mode change (+/- voice/op). 5 mar 2002 #1 Fixed a bug where profile names could be mismatched from the keys used to store them. Factored the release notes into 3 editable strings. One for features enumeration, one for revisions history and a to-do list. Added some utility functions that make it easier to produce a new change set preamble that agrees with the release notes. Fixed a bug in the multicolumn header morph where it would try to draw headers before the list contents where known. Channels pane redesign of layout. 4 mar 2002 Added provision to edit an existing profile. Also added provision for user to change the server selected from the profile dialog. -41 (published 4 mar 2002) Fixed a bug pointed out by Bijan Parsia. Thanks. -40 Problem with post load initializer. -39 Trim blanks around any added profile name. Generate better initial profile names from server names. Cosmetics. -38 Extended multi column list morph with a new morph PluggableMultiColumnListMorphByItemWithHeader used in the profiles selection dialog. This morph provides multi-column ability with a built-in header row. Disable active editing of configuration while connected. Profiles are working. Note that the current options are copied into any new profile you create.-37 Factoring of message sending code. Still needs more cleanup in that code. Made options available on a per connection basis. Each connection can have their own unique options. When you open up a new console window from the World menu the options are set to the defaults. When you open up a new console from the New Console button the options from the existing console window are copied forward to the new one. Added support for Profiles. A Profile contains a nick, server, and options which can be used for initializing a connection. Profiles management for the user are not coded yet. -36 Factoring. -35 Handles nick change messages received from IRC server. Also properly handles /whois and /nick changes initiated from channel window. -34 Fetch of channels list shows update count while fetching. Detect when IRC server fails to send channel list because of server loading. -33 fixed problem parsing PART messages from some servers Generalized the reserved keywords (CLEAR, INSPECT) to be included in any IRC input pane (console, channel or private messages). -32 Support /CLEAR in channel chat window. Added support for /INSPECT too. -31 Fixed some bugs with mode changes in channels Fixed problem with connection dialog/setup window after being collapsed. Better factoring of TabbedSwappingControl morph. Lots of factoring in IRCConnectionEnhanced. -30 Fixed bug in servers populate code. -29 Show channel member names in logical order with color highlighting for operators and voiced members. Detected mode changes that impact member status. Fixed bug where PART messages were being sometimes sent to the wrong channel pane. -28 Fixed problem with post load initializer where populated servers database was empty. -27 Bug fix in paste/copy code for channel text. -26 Handle multiple line inputs, such as can come from a paste operation. -25 Cosmetics in text messages from server. Added close option to channel text menu. Command keys work from the channel and console text panes now. -24 Change set maintenance. -23 Fixed problem where new private messages were not causing the tab to update. Open up a chat window pane for private messages we receive except for from server. Member channel joins, parts and quits are now shown in the channel window panes. Support INVITE requests. Added Options pane to Setup dialog. Factored out most of the swap/tabbed pane into a new pane design used in the Config dialog. -22 minor code factoring. -21 /ACTION messages supported in channel chat. -20 Added support for /WHOIS command to channel chat windows and users menu. -19 Added rollback of messages to console window pane. Fixed bug in private chat window where ""me"" was still being used as nick for outgoing messages. Fixed places where we were using asLowercase instead of asIRCLowercase. Stop sending private messages to private messages redundantly pane if there is already a private chat window open to get them. Factored sound messages for possible future enhancement. -18 Since we can now have multiple consoles open on different IRC servers, the title of the window now reflects the connection. Rollback of previously typed text. Fixed the bug where there was a delay before channel members were displayed. -17 Redesign of the ""population/status"" pane. First hooks put into place to add support for find/copy etc from keyboard in the channel text pane. Keys are not mapped yet. -16 New server configuration dialog allows choices from many possible IRC servers. Added a built intable of several known IRC servers. -15 Dropped the ""me"" designations for the real nick. Factored all the colors into IRCClientColors class. It's not as nice as a having color preferences management, but you can edit them all in one place. An extension would be to allow storing and loading of customized colors without code changes. Highlight transmitted messages in a color, and highgllight recived messages that contain our nick in a color. Highlight ACTION message responses with italic. Channel chat pane breaks nicks into column before messages. Fix problems with automatic nick completion. It used to take more than 1 TAB key hit to get started, and you could not embed TABs in the text line if they were not part of nick search. Also, you could not begin a line with a tab. In the case where someone types a tab in the first column and there are no characters to match against a nick, treat it like someone is typing indented text. -14 Nick completion. We trap the TAB key and rotate through nicks. -13 bug fixes and more cosmetic tweaks -12 bug in menu for channel chat pane fixed. added menu to private chat panes. cosmetics to the population counter pane. -11 Removed connect button from setup dialog. Ensured that setup window could not be closed if edits were not accepted. Indicate if the connection was dropped by color change in connect button. Reconnect channels and private chats that were open if the user connectd after a dropped connection. -10 added some edit menu functions to the readonly chat pane. added menu to user list in chat pane. selected channels button will bring existing channels window into focus if already defined. on manual disconnect, close the closeable tabs to avoid later conflicts. made the users status pane (population: x) read only. cleanup the borders and pane background colors for the user list in the chat pane. cleanup the borders and pane background colors for the channel buttons. private message windows have the same focus properties as the channel browsers. Input goes to the input pane. made console pane readonly and again used the input pane to catch focused keystrokes. replaced console menu with one more appropriate since functions from old menu are now buttons. show channel list refresh is busy by way of button colors. removed special button from channels pane. -9 Better connect/disconnect detect and indication. Release the channel listeners when we close a tabbed pane. Handle rotate left/right of tab panes. -8 Opening up a private chat pane now becomes the active tabbed pane. Highlight the tabbed panes that see messages while you have another pane in front. Check for missing # in front of prompted channel names. -7 detect socket drop and change connect button state to indicate what happened. Fixed missing when someone parted from a channel. -6 bugs fixed -5 new provision for closing tabbed panes. Only specific panes can be closed. Also added buttons to move pane tabs left and right but nothing implemented to support those features yet, -4 more clean up of little bugs -3 clean up of change set contents. -2 fixed problem with send of private messages. Input pane was not constructed properly -1 general release NEED TO DO: (or would be nice to do) These are in no special priority order. - cleanup code to add class methods defining new constants for commands I have added. - mIRC colored text - logging - DCC send/recv - PING response for server timeout? Verify this mechanism is working right. I occasionally get disconnects and think this may be why. - add 401 no such nick/channel to channel feedback - /away needs to be supported - disconnect does not close private message panes "!

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Re: Comments welcome: designer look for squeak
by Martin Drautzburg 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

"Norton, Chris" <chrisn(a)Kronos.com> writes: > If you are interested in changing Squeak's look, I encourage you! More > power to you. But you may want to see why those other efforts failed before > you spend a lot of time on this. I am not a designer. My main point is not about programming. One of the reasons why these projects get discontiued might me that there is no common understanding what squeak should look like. For the same reason I believe we do not need themes.

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Hello again!
by Alan Lovejoy 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello, everyone. I've been away from the mailing list for a while, but now I'm back. Note that the e-mail address that appears on messages I send to the list is different than the one some of you have in your address books. My acm.org address is still valid, and should be used for **professional** correspondence. If you want my personal/private e-mail address, you can ask for it by sending a message to my public/general-purpose e-mail address (the one which appears by default in the From: field of all e-mails I send out): sourcery(a)mail.com. Happy Smalltalking! - --Alan Lovejoy -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 7.0.4 iQA/AwUBPKWKkxVmMc3xFr1fEQL8WgCdE+cPzivpLspShMzqj84cpoIRIZQAoJmP NiWveZ3u0LxVEjyddr+JVYFs =VfBD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Comments welcome: designer look for squeak
by Martin Drautzburg 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

"Stephan B. Wessels" <swessels(a)one.net> writes: > I agree with the sentiment that a sexy look is good marketing. I truly > believe that. When a product is a pleasure to look at people want to know > more about it. In the case of Smalltalk, after they hopefully see the > lightness of the language and depth of the class hierarchy they will be > hooked. I am not just suggesting "squeak needs a new look", what I hold to be true is: ö Community growth The community growth may be determined by two factors: the quality of squeak (as software) and marketing. The first factor is already at a high level, the second becomes significant. Since we do not pay bribes of any kind, marketing is somwhat limited to intellectual work such as art. o Good art needs good artists Designing a look (the artwork) is a job that should be done by professional (graphics) designers. You may replace "look" by "corporate design" to get the idea. o No squeak graphics designers avaiable The squeak community has excellent programmers and visioners but lacks designers. Therfore implementing a look is primarily seen as a programming challenge. The artwork is underephasized. Programming a look is difficult if you don't know what the outcome should be like. o Open source art The basic ideas of open source can be extended to include non programming tasks, such as designing a look. o Themes are too much Themes are a programming challenge. Themes are not needed for what I suggest here. You don't do that with corporate designs. You can change the look every couple of years to make a new version visually obvious. Windows doesn't have themes and they are in a position where they could replace raised popups by flat popups and sell this as a new version. Linux has themes but it didn't help much on the desktop. Java/Swing has themes. o License to attract artists Someone (me ?) has to go and find some artists who are willing to make this kind of contribution. This person would have to speak in the name of the squak community. There is a common understanding on how to contribute software to squeak. There is no such understanding on how to contribute art. It is not even clear if art contributions are welcome.

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RE: Apple hyping java...
by Tim Olson 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

David Chase wrote: >Just for example -- I wouldn't write a compiler in Squeak. Well, not quite a compiler, but I wrote an assembler in Squeak that did basic block and superblock scheduling, register renaming and allocation, etc. We use it at work (some folks just use it headless, invoked from a shell script). -- Tim Olson

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RE: Object pointers
by Rob Withers 30 Mar '02

30 Mar '02

Alan Kay <Alan.Kay(a)squeakland.org> wrote: > It's "just like" LISP -- from which it got these sharing ideas long > ago in the 60s (even before Xerox PARC Smalltalk). OOPs are simple > views of an object (they "show" the entire object). Hi Alan, Does LISP or other systems have a history of using less simple views on an object? I am researching the impact of extending message sending semantics to include an eventual-send->promise->resolve style. Do you think it will be difficult to intuitively interact with objects that don't return values immediately? It is sometimes, especially with inspectors which expect strings back *now*. :) Aside from those issues, I am exploring the feeling of interacting in that kind of sending environment. Would it behave in a way that users expect? A related meta-question I have, is what features are required for interaction to be intuitive? I'll attempt to briefly and clearly explain eventual sending. Please excuse me if I fail at that task. I am building the promise-based eventual send mechanism of Elib, in Squeak (http://www.erights.org/elib and especially http://www.erights.org/elib/concurrency/msg-passing.html). This extends the immediate-call->return style of squeak message-sending to an eventual-send->promise->resolve style of message sending. Eventually sent messages are not executed immediately. This type of eventual reference returns an object reference, as a promise, to which you can eventually send additional messages, each returning a new promise reference. These messages, sent to the promise reference, are pending until the receiver promise resolves to a real object reference (#become:), then the messages are eventually forwarded to this resolved object, and in turn each of their promises resolve, und so weiter. It is remarkable to me that separating the message sending from the method execution, results in small sequences of pending messages queued for those promise resolved objects. These eventual references (objects or promises) are currenly compromised, as there are a few areas in squeak where the environment expects immediate values returned. generally speaking, thank you for the opportunity. :) Rob > Cheers, > > Alan

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