Squeak-dev August 2004

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154 participants
394 discussions

Re: The future of SM...(compatible library packages)
by lex＠cc.gatech.edu 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

Trygve Reenskaug <trygver(a)ifi.uio.no> wrote: > There has been many suggestions about how a package can survive a change in > its class library. I believe the only workable solution is to let a package > include all required objects and ignore any new versions that may come along. That is a solution, but it seems hard to get there. In addition to needing the correct version of each *superclass*, any objects you use need to be in classes that are versions you expect. And what do you do if you want an object with class version X, but you pass that object to someone else who wants it with class version Y? It seems that you need to adjust the object's class to Y. How can this be done? It seems doable, and extremely worthwhile, but it is difficult. I suggest that we also pursue strategies that avoid needing arbitrary package versions to interoperate. A simple approach is to develop one set of packages at a time and do whatever work is required to get them compatible with each other. With this approach, whenever an inconsistency is discovered between these packages, we have the option of solving it by declaring a rule one way or the other. If some packages are expecting 0-based indexing and others are expecting 1-based, then -- if nothing else suffices -- we can simply pick one way or the other, and do the work to make the losing packages conform. We can do these things because of open source. An extra benefit of this approach is that it can cope with any form of inconsistency. For example, we could insist that all method category names are lowercased, or that all comments use British spellings. This suggests that, even if a good intermixing strategy is found for dealing with many kinds of inconsistencies, we may want to continue following the approach described above in order to handle the reamining forms of inconsistency. -Lex

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TEST EMAIL please IGNORE
by Nick Paxford 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

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Re: Questions on Squeak's threading architecture -- why can't Squeakdo SMP yet?
by Alan Grimes 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

>with wanting to share physical simulations and visualizations over >distributed hardware with Croquet when available, but my questions about >scalability seem to be more Squeak VM related. Croquet has _NEVER_ worked for me. It simply outputs the "OpenGL" window without any hint as to why it didn't do anything interesting. > What is stopping Squeak from doing SMP? (or Async MP for that matter?) Quite a bit, unfortunately. The VM will need to undergo a fairly major refactorization along with some updates to the c translator and several race conditions in the image itself will need to be resolved. =\ You may have seen some of my laments on this subject with regards to my dual Athlon which has been lying derelict for two months now awaiting a new HD. =( I had been working on this project when my HD failed, I have not had the chance to use squeak since. =( People seem to be content enough with Squeak's current design as to not be motovated to upgrade it. > Why can't one make a copy of the OS/platform specific guts of the Squeak bytecode >interpreter or JIT compiler object for each physical processor It's an interpreter. > Has this been tried and failed? Another question: Has anyone tried >to port Squeak to IBM Power5 processors (under Linux or anything else)? What happens when you compile the CVS source on that architecture? You might need the recient 64 bit port which I was begining but lost when the HD died.... >What are the broad engineering challenges in the way if I want to run a >computationally intensive simulation object (e.g. large N molecular >dynamics simulation with Squeak object hooks) on, say 32 processors of >my IBM p690, WOAH!!! Now _THAT_ is some serious iorn! > and let that object communicate the jist of its state (by >passing messages over IP) to clients which do the final (not so >computationally intensive) final rendering. Distributed processing is a whole different level of problem. Squeak does have some colaborative tools but, in my experience, they crash and lock up the VM. =( > Anyone who has used a pervasively threaded microkernel operating >system, such as BeOS and QNX, understands the substantial power for >users and their programs of multithreading on multiprocessors done >right. There are clearly lots of parallels to be drawn here between >Squeak and various OS architectures. I'm using BeOS right now on my Athlon 800 but, unfortunately, it can't be booted on my dual Athlon for reasons that aren't clear.

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[FIX][3.7] DeprecatedFixesFor37-nk ( [er] Looks good )
by frank.shearar＠rnid.org.uk 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

With the proviso that I used my eyeballs to go over the changes one by one, herewith my findings: * The code mostly looks fine. Some minor refactorings occur, but I followed the changes easily. Some methods (like PNGReadWriter>>nextPutImage:interlace:filter:) I don't feel competent to judge clearly. I can follow the removal of deprecated methods just fine, but it looks like Ned shifted the order of some of the lines, and I don't know enough (i.e., nothing at all) to judge those changes. * Some methods (like SMLoader>>filterVersion) belong to packages so someone should pull these methods out into separate changesets for the relevant package maintainers. * My image doesn't contain some methods in the changeset (PositionableStream>>fileInSilentlyAnnouncing: in particular). I suppose these methods belong to packages I've not installed.

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[SM] SM categories vs Debian debtags
by goran.krampe＠bluefish.se 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

Hi all! Just noticed an example where SM (our categories) has been ahead of Debian, until now: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org regards, Göran

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[Seaside][GOODS] blocked while comitting
by kuo 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

Hi, I'm exploring on a GOODS[71] client installed to Squeak image v3.7b 5923 with GOODS windows server version 285 running on my WindowsXP platform. The package was installed smoothly and the server seemed running ok. But when I performs some test codes in Squeak client, the system was blocked indefinitely after db commit: db := KKDatabase onHost: 'localhost' port: 6000. db root: Dictionary new. db commit. "System was blocked ......" The server console showed no error messages and the browser console could show the newly added root object though the client was still halting. Is there something wrong? How could I break the block? TIA Tsun

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Mac VM 3.7.1b2 (for testing)
by John M McIntosh 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

I've pushed a Mac VM 3.7.1b2 for testing to http://homepage.mac.com/johnmci/ Squeak 3.7.1Beta2.app.sit It contains: 3.7.1b2 a) JPEG READER WRITER Usage of Apple '-fast' uncovered a source code issue, initialization routines for internal jpeg plugin were not returning true or false, before this was kinda of considered as returning true? But when compiled with -fast it's zero, meaning the inialization failed, but that is bogus. b) Use of "-fast" apple gcc 3.3 compiler option, improves sends by significant % c) Broke high bit ascii macroman in 3.7.0bx. On EventKeyUp/EventKeyDown you get the UniCode On EventKeyChar you now get the UniCode->MacRoman translated character. For multi-byte character input you get EventKeyDown/EventKeyChar/EventKeyUp for each unicode character coming from the input sequence. Please note that I've a 3.7.1b3 pending due to window open issue in os-x 10.3.2, but please try this VM for speed/performance and correctness. OS-9 Users please note I did not rev the os-9 binary because these are os-x specific issues being fixed at this time. -- ======================================================================== === John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> 1-800-477-2659 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ======================================================================== ===

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SystemChanges
by Michael Rueger 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

Hi all, I'm a bit stressed right now (preparing the Squeakland release) and can't figure out what happend to Smalltalk changes. It gave back the current System ChangeSet. The class var is still there but not referenced anymore (so, should be removed?). How can I find out the current change set and it's name? I basically want to remove all change sets except the current one. Michael

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[Test][3.8a][m17n] After loading host fonts Squeak blocks
by Hannes Hirzel 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

Hi In a 3.8a image with the install script loaded (see my previous mail of I found that I can load Windows host (Unicode) fonts, like Times New Roman, Garamond, Lucida Sans Unicode etc. with HostFont initWin32 The fileIn of the fonts works fine. However if I then try to select one of these fonts as a system default font Squeak blocks in Array(SequenceqbleCollection)>>first HostFont>>displayString:on:from:to:at:kern: FormCanvas>>drawString:from:to:in:font:color: Am I missing an important intermediary step or does this just not work yet? Hannes

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RE: [BUG] ReviewerPost(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #morph trying topost a review from BFAV2. ([closed] - reported in another thread)
by Frank Shearar 04 Aug '04

04 Aug '04

> From: Marcus Denker [mailto:denker@iam.unibe.ch] > > Am 02.08.2004 um 13:06 schrieb Frank Shearar: > > > Yep, we know about this bug (several other people have reported it > > already). We've fixed it in the latest SqueakSource version. We'll > > release that Real Soon Now - we're just waiting on some > reports from > > heavy users who use the bleeding-edge BFAV versions as to whether > > we've missed anything. > > > > BFAV has become a vital part of the Squeak community, and we > > appreciate the patience of the community in not throwing > tomatoes at > > us! > > > > > > couldn't you just release a fixed version that removes just > the "morph" > from that one method? Even if that's not a real fix, it would give > us a mostly working BFAV. I'm waiting for some feedback from the guys who run the bleeding-edge versions before doing just that. I hope to release a new BFAV today or tomorrow. Unfortunately (for BFAV, at least) I've been on holiday this last week so I've not done any BFAV work (using it, making sure Tom's fixes work, etc). frank ******************************************************************* This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent RNID policy. If you are not the intended recipient you are advised that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the RNID Helpdesk by telephone on: +44 (0) 207 296 8282. The Royal National Institute for Deaf People Registered Office 19*23 Featherstone Street London EC1Y 8SL No. 454169 (England) Registered Charity No. 207720 ********************************************************************

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