Squeak-dev August 2004

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

154 participants
394 discussions

MVC vs. Morphic (was Re: Shrinking)
by Pavel Krivanek 03 Sep '04

03 Sep '04

> BTW, did you have a chance to look into MVC codes, > Do you have anything to complain ? > > I heard tons of bad thing about Morphic but not > much about MVC. > > Is it because not many people are using MVC or > because MVC code is of high quality ? MVC is the first complex GUI ever so it's very old and its look and architecture can't gratify all demands on a modern user interface. But it's well-ripened, stable, compact and unpretentious. People know its limitations and when they have to work with it, they don't castigate it so much. And - as you say - they use it sporadicly now. MVC doesn't have better architecture than Morphic but its implementation is cleaner. Morphic is much more complex. You can't compare it to MVC because it has the other purposes. Morphic is easier to use for a developer and very flexible. IMHO developers are frustrated by Morphic. It's very modern and interesting GUI framework, but it didn't come up to all expectations. Firstly it doesn't look conventional, it doesn't contain implicitly standard GUI components like combo-boxes etc. Without mouse support you can do absolutely nothing. It has strange windows management. Inactive windows disable all its components (look at Zurgle to see it). You can't switch between submorphs using Tab key etc. But you can tell it about MVC too. One of the most strange features of Morphic and MVC is the single world cycle. One long computation can make whole GUI unusable. It's not a feature of Squeak's process scheduler. I have created an experimental window manager with separated message passing cycles, all GUI messages were sent through shared queues and it has worked perfectly. Pavel

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package universes and filters question
by Stephan Rudlof 03 Sep '04

03 Sep '04

Hi Lex, I have a question regarding package universes. Assumed there are separated universes for stable and unstable packages, U_stable and U_unstable. Now we put the union of these packages into a new universe U_all, but to know, where they have come from, we label each package with the name of the universe, from which it stems. As a result each package in U_all has a label #U_stable or #U_unstable. Now to my question: I see no difference between the functionality of - a dependency resolver working in U_stable (or U_unstable), and - another one working in U_all *together* with a filter selecting the wished packages with label #U_stable (or #U_unstable), before starting to work. Do you see any problems with this approach? Greetings Stephan -- Stephan Rudlof (sr(a)evolgo.de) "Genius doesn't work on an assembly line basis. You can't simply say, 'Today I will be brilliant.'" -- Kirk, "The Ultimate Computer", stardate 4731.3

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RE: Dan Ingalls Talk Monday 30th of August at Berne
by Brent Vukmer 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

Thanks, Stef. > -----Original Message----- > From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On > Behalf Of stéphane ducasse > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 3:56 PM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Re: Dan Ingalls Talk Monday 30th of August at Berne > > > I will ask dan and publish them. > > Stef >

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Re: MicroSeeker (was Shrinking)
by Jon Hylands 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:05:18 -0400, "SmallSqueak" <smallsqueak(a)rogers.com> wrote: > Can I come and watch it. Anyone who lives in the Hamilton Ontario area (or wants to travel there) is welcome to come. The run will be in Ancaster, which is just slightly west of Hamilton on highway 403, probably starting around 5:00 or 5:30 pm. If anyone would like to come, please email me privately at jon(a)huv.com and I'll send you directions and times. Later, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Hylands Jon(a)huv.com http://www.huv.com/jon Project: Micro Seeker (Micro Autonomous Underwater Vehicle) http://www.huv.com

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Bug with SqueakMap
by Damien Cassou 02 Sep '04

02 Sep '04

Hi, I always have a problem with SqueakMap. I have tried with this mail to sum up. Every time, I have started squeak from a fresh directory. My problem appears just after the click on the open>PackageLoader item in the menu (I click on the item, I wait few seconds, I see "Reading a stream" and the error message appears). Here is two test with 2 version of the image. If you want, I can test with others versions (just tell me where I can download them) I'm running gnu/linux Debian : > uname -a Linux localhost 2.6.4-ck1 #2 Thu Mar 25 15:41:26 CET 2004 i686 GNU/Linux ----------- $ squeak -version 3.7b-5 #1 Mon Jul 19 20:31:04 PDT 2004 gcc 3.3.4 Squeak3.7beta of '1 April 2004' [latest update: #5868] Linux gadget.dnsalias.net 2.4.26 #15 Wed Jun 23 08:06:00 PDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux default plugin location: /usr/lib/squeak/3.7b-5/*.so Image 3.7beta 5868 "Error occured when updating map : UndefinedObject>>do: {ok}". Then, Squeakmap launch and I can install seaside without problem. ----------- $ squeak -version 3.7b-5 #1 Mon Jul 19 20:31:04 PDT 2004 gcc 3.3.4 Squeak3.7beta of '1 April 2004' [latest update: #5868] Linux gadget.dnsalias.net 2.4.26 #15 Wed Jun 23 08:06:00 PDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux default plugin location: /usr/lib/squeak/3.7b-5/*.so Image 3.7gamma 5985 "Error occurred when updating map: UndefinedObject>>do: Would you like to open a debugger ? {yes,no}" No matter what I choose, a debugger is opened and SqueakMap doesn't launch. When the debugger is open, I can click on "proceed" but it restart by asking me the same question ----------- Thanks for your help Damien

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Status of the 3.7 VM for debian and bug with sm
by stéphane ducasse 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

hi I just pass a message. A french guy got a lot of problem to make squeakmap working with the latest 3.7 vm. Is it a well-known problem? -------- Message original -------- Sujet: [BUG]UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #do: Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:34:55 +0200 (CEST) De: damien.cassou(a)laposte.net Pour: damien.cassou(a)laposte.net here insert explanation of what you were doing, suspect changes you've made and so forth. 19 August 2004 3:34:40 pm VM: unix - a SmalltalkImage Image: Squeak3.7gamma [latest update: #5985] SecurityManager state: Restricted: false FileAccess: true SocketAccess: true Working Dir /home/quetzalcoatl/squeak-3.7 Trusted Dir /home/quetzalcoatl/squeak-3.7/secure Untrusted Dir /home/quetzalcoatl/squeak-3.7/untrusted UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #do: Receiver: nil Arguments and temporary variables: aMessage: do: [] in ImageSegment>>comeFullyUpOnReload: {[:importedObject | impo...etc... Receiver's instance variables: nil ImageSegment>>comeFullyUpOnReload: Receiver: an ImageSegment Arguments and temporary variables: smartRefStream: a SmartRefStream a ByteArray(39 70 114 111 109 32 83 113 117 10...etc... mapFakeClassesToReal: an IdentityDictionary(Fake37SMSqueakMap->SMSqueakMap ) ccFixups: true receiverClasses: an IdentitySet() rootsToUnhiberhate: nil myProject: nil importedObject: nil aFake: nil Receiver's instance variables: arrayOfRoots: nil segment: a WordArrayForSegment(1929386342 423113227 2164979344 2161840573 31614...etc... outPointers: #(Fake37SMSqueakMap nil 'sm' true Dictionary SMFileCache Array an ...etc... state: #imported segmentName: nil fileName: nil endMarker: SmartRefStream(ReferenceStream)>>next userRootCnt: 1 renamedClasses: nil SmartRefStream(DataStream)>>next Receiver: a SmartRefStream a ByteArray(39 70 114 111 109 32 83 113 117 101 97 107 51 46 54 32 111 10...etc... Arguments and temporary variables: type: 16 selector: #readShortInst anObject: an ImageSegment isARefType: true pos: nil internalObject: nil Receiver's instance variables: byteStream: a RWBinaryOrTextStream a ByteArray(39 70 114 111 109 32 83 113 117 ...etc... topCall: #marked basePos: 151 references: an IdentityDictionary() objects: an IdentityDictionary(5->#('class structure' a Dictionary(#Array->#(0)...etc... currentReference: 2959 fwdRefEnds: an IdentityDictionary() blockers: an IdentityDictionary() skipping: an IdentitySet() insideASegment: false structures: a Dictionary(#Array->#(0) #ArrayedCollection->#(0) #Association->#(...etc... steady: a Set(Integer UUID SMDocument Symbol SMCategorizableObject String Seque...etc... reshaped: nil renamed: a Dictionary(#FlasherMorph->#Flasher ) renamedConv: a Dictionary(1->#SMSqueakMap 5->#Dictionary 6->#SMFileCache 7->#Ar...etc... superclasses: a Dictionary(#Array->#ArrayedCollection #ArrayedCollection->#Sequ...etc... progressBar: nil objCount: nil classInstVars: nil SmartRefStream(ReferenceStream)>>next Receiver: a SmartRefStream a ByteArray(39 70 114 111 109 32 83 113 117 101 97 107 51 46 54 32 111 10...etc... Arguments and temporary variables: curPosn: 2959 skipToPosn: nil haveIt: false theObject: false wasSkipping: nil Receiver's instance variables: byteStream: a RWBinaryOrTextStream a ByteArray(39 70 114 111 109 32 83 113 117 ...etc... topCall: #marked basePos: 151 references: an IdentityDictionary() objects: an IdentityDictionary(5->#('class structure' a Dictionary(#Array->#(0)...etc... currentReference: 2959 fwdRefEnds: an IdentityDictionary() blockers: an IdentityDictionary() skipping: an IdentitySet() insideASegment: false structures: a Dictionary(#Array->#(0) #ArrayedCollection->#(0) #Association->#(...etc... steady: a Set(Integer UUID SMDocument Symbol SMCategorizableObject String Seque...etc... reshaped: nil renamed: a Dictionary(#FlasherMorph->#Flasher ) renamedConv: a Dictionary(1->#SMSqueakMap 5->#Dictionary 6->#SMFileCache 7->#Ar...etc... superclasses: a Dictionary(#Array->#ArrayedCollection #ArrayedCollection->#Sequ...etc... progressBar: nil objCount: nil classInstVars: nil --- The full stack --- UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #do: ImageSegment>>comeFullyUpOnReload: SmartRefStream(DataStream)>>next SmartRefStream(ReferenceStream)>>next - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SmartRefStream>>next SmartRefStream>>scanFrom: ObjectScanner>>scanFrom: [] in RWBinaryOrTextStream(PositionableStream)>>fileInAnnouncing: {[val := (self peekFor: $!) ifTrue: [(Compiler evaluate: self nextChunk l...]} BlockContext>>on:do: [] in RWBinaryOrTextStream(PositionableStream)>>fileInAnnouncing: {[:bar | [self atEnd] whileFalse: [bar value: self position. self skipS...]} ...etc...

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OmniBrowser in Tools Flap
by Jan B. Krejci 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Hi there, I apologize for wasting the precious time of all the Gurus here, but: wouldn't it be quite nice to have the OmniBrowser (OBBrowser browseImage) icon in "open" menu and "Tools" flap by default after installation of OB package? .:jbk:. Jan B. Krejci

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[Q] Why Monticello don't keep names of packages
by Lic. Edgar J. De Cleene 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Maybe this is silly question for Avi what sure have strong reasons. But I unhappy about losing names of packages having Monticello as official tool in image. Before 3.7 full, I can load .mcz using SqueakMap or from files stored on my disk using FileList. Always I could have package name what I could easily locate using normal Change Browser. Now , instead of having CrazyThing.3 , I have MC9 and is more difficult when you work a while remember or locating where CrazyThing.3 are. Edgar

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[Squeakmap] Statistics
by Hernan Tylim 01 Sep '04

01 Sep '04

Hi, I know that there are already a lot of things on the wish list for squeakmap but nevertheless I wanted to add a very little one. What do you think about keeping a downloads counter per Package release on Squeakmap? I know that it wouldn't be accurate because of the local cache on each client. But it will give as at least a lower bound for measuring the use of a given package. Regards, Hernán

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How can I know the id of a squeakmap package?
by stéphane ducasse 31 Aug '04

31 Aug '04

For updating the fullImage script I need the id of the packages. But I cannot find where this information is available. So how can I know the id of a package on Squeakmap? Stef

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