Squeak-dev May 2005

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

153 participants
243 discussions

Question about flushing Display on Canvas
by Milan Zimmermann 07 May '05

07 May '05

Hi, I am trying to paint (draw lines) on Canvas from workspace. I use: aDrawingForm := Form extent: 400@600 depth: Display depth. aCanvas := aDrawingForm getCanvas. aCanvas fillColor: (Color yellow). aDrawingForm asMorph openInWorld. <Alt-d> This shows yeallow canvas. Then I do aCanvas line: 10@10 to: 50@30 width: 3 color: (Color black). aCanvas flush. <Alt-d> I expected the line to be shown immediately but it only happens when I either click on or move the Canvas. I tried "aCanvas flushDisplay" and "aCanvas forceToScreen: rect" but both behave the same. Is there a way to force a refresh after drawing on Canvas? (Perhaps I should not expect this to work this way and use another method for drawing from?) Thanks Milan

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REMINDER: Harvesting Party Sunday May 8th 05:00 GMT
by Ken Causey 07 May '05

07 May '05

Just a reminder that the next Harvesting Party will take place between 05:00 (5 AM) and 09:00 (9 AM) GMT Sunday May 8th, 2005. As usual we will meet in #squeak on irc.freenode.net. More information about the #squeak IRC channel can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/7.html Information about the Harvesting Party idea can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/29.html If you have the time please attend and work toward the future of Squeak. The next seven parties are scheduled for 09:00 (09:00 AM) GMT Thursday May 12, 2005 13:00 (01:00 PM) GMT Monday May 16, 2005 17:00 (05:00 PM) GMT Friday May 20, 2005 21:00 (09:00 PM) GMT Tuesday May 24, 2005 01:00 (01:00 AM) GMT Sunday May 29, 2005 05:00 (05:00 AM) GMT Thursday June 02, 2005 09:00 (09:00 AM) GMT Monday June 06, 2005

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Re: [Fwd: asked for ISP donations?]
by Lex Spoon 07 May '05

07 May '05

Well, you'll never know if you don't ask. There are some extremely trustworthy and capable Squeakers who are already running important servers for us, and not all of them read squeak-dev or even know that there is a problem being discussed. -Lex

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Re: Closing a port.
by e4ward 06 May '05

06 May '05

Not enough information (but i assume you are using TcpService, in that case check out Server>>#stop). But I wanted to point out another way to manage change in your image. After a coding session, simply quit without saving. When you come back in, go to changes > recently logged changes, select the changes since the last snapshot. Filter the window to just the new classes and last versions of changed/new methods, and file them in, and THEN save the image. With this approach you can be selective about which side-effects you want to burn into your image (eg code) and which ones you might not (eg socket opens and other effects). You can always start from a known state each time and not have to worry about breaking your image or having to clean it up no matter how big a 'mess' you make in a given coding/testing session. - Alan R. On 5/6/05, François THIMON <thimof*iutc3.unicaen.fr*4d8nfbcdu5*reider.net*7A0*7yz8*3(a)reply.e4ward.com> wrote: > Hi. > I've opened ports with squeak (1024 through 1031) but I can't close them. > Killing squeak does close all the ports but reopening it also opens them back. > I supposed the problem came from my saving the image before closing the ports, > since I wanted to keep my code intact. But now let's assume I really would like > to keep the same image file, then I can I really close the ports even when I > open squeak? > > Thanks in advance. > >

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Closing a port.
by François THIMON 06 May '05

06 May '05

Hi. I've opened ports with squeak (1024 through 1031) but I can't close them. Killing squeak does close all the ports but reopening it also opens them back. I supposed the problem came from my saving the image before closing the ports, since I wanted to keep my code intact. But now let's assume I really would like to keep the same image file, then I can I really close the ports even when I open squeak? Thanks in advance.

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Re: Squeak Licence
by Lex Spoon 06 May '05

06 May '05

Serge Stinckwich <Serge.Stinckwich(a)info.unicaen.fr> wrote: > Sorry Cees, we can't call beancounting wankers all the people that are > not agree with us : Debian people, SPI people, RMML people, ... > > Unfortunalty the world is not rule by spirit but by letter stuff ... > > Righ now the licence is a big problem for Squeak and his distribution : > problems with the Linux distributions, problems with the open-source > conferences, problems for the adoption of Squeak in the open-source > pedagogical community, ... Yes we can. RMS, debian-legal (emphatically *NOT* representative of Debian at large), and this RMLL committee are all beancounting wankers. They are inventing problems--perhaps in order to make themselves relevant? There will be problems with Squeak-L if it ever comes to the courts. Just like with GPL, MIT, BSD, and any other license you name. The issues just aren't settled. No one knows what the letter of the law is, in these cases, so the spirit and practice are all we really have to go by. We *might* end up compromising with these guys just to get along. That doesn't mean we have to respect them. This license lawyering is causing real harm to open source, and we should not shy from telling them. In the mean time, we shouldn't get worked up about them. It's their conference, and they can be irrelevant if they want to. Our actual customers can decide for themselves. Lex

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Re: Squeak Licence
by Cees De Groot 06 May '05

06 May '05

On 5/6/05, Jecel Assumpcao Jr <jecel(a)merlintec.com> wrote: > You download a big .zip after reading that BSD-like license so any > reasonable person would assume that it applies to the whole thing. Exactly my idea. And if some <mickey-mouse> or <fruit-with-piece-missing> corporate doohickey finds out, let them bugger VRI because they let us download that .zip file. We can wash our hands in innocence (no we can, but they're likely to go for a US corporation rather than a bunch of open source weenies all over the world anyway. One good thing about lawyers mostly having IQ's below the freezing point is that they are predictable ;-)).

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Smalltalk Solutions 2005
by Jason Jones 06 May '05

06 May '05

Smalltalk Solutions 2005 will be here before you know it. Make sure you sign up early to take advantage of the savings. Visit <http://www.smalltalksolutions.com/> http://www.smalltalksolutions.com/ to register. Here are a few samples of what you can expect from this year's show in Orlando. Don't forget to sign up for the Smalltalk coding contest as well. More info at www.stic.org <http://www.stic.org/> Smalltalk in an Autonomous Ground Vehicle -- A New Direction presentation Hylands, Jon: Tuesday 10:30 am to 11:15 am Abstract: Autonomous vehicles are an emerging technology that are ideally suited for exploration, reconnaissance, inspection, and monitoring. The software required to successfully pilot an autonomous vehicle must be very robust, capable of complex behaviors, and also be easy to maintain and extend. Smalltalk fits the bill on all of these requirements. This demo will show Orion, a simple hobby-level autonomous ground vehicle built by the presenter's brother, with the high-level "brain" of the system running in Squeak Smalltalk on an embedded Linux single-board computer. The autonomous controller for this vehicle can also control many other autonomous vehicles, including MicroSeeker, the presenter's autonomous underwater vehicle. Orion is being built to compete in the RoboMagellan compeition held by the Seattle Robotics Society in September. Bio: Jon Hylands has been doing Smalltalk programming since 1987. Jon's main interests include hobby robotics and autonomous submersibles, and making Smalltalk work on embedded devices. ----------- VA Smalltalk Going Forward presentation O'Keefe, John and Clayberg, Eric: IBM, InstantiationsTuesday 10:30 am to 12 pm Bio: John O'Keefe is the lead developer of the IBM VisualAge Smalltalk team. After spending the first 2/3 of his career at IBM working on process control software and mainframe systems, he was introduced to Smalltalk by Bob Hinkle in 1988 and found his niche. He has been working on the IBM VisualAge Smalltalk product since before Version 1 and has been the technical lead of the team since Version 4. Eric Clayberg, Sr. Vice President of Product Development for Instantiations, Inc., was Executive Vice President of Objectshare Systems, Inc. and Vice President of Development for ParcPlace-Digitalk, Inc. He is the primary author and architect of over a dozen commercial Smalltalk add-on products including the popular VA Assist Enterprise and WindowBuilder Pro product lines. He has a BS from MIT and an MBA from Harvard.

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Confused about SystemChangeNotification
by Andreas Raab 06 May '05

06 May '05

Hi - I am running into ever more trouble with SystemChangeNotification. Can somebody give me a brief rundown on how it is supposed to work? Any tests associated with it to document boundary cases? Here are two rather obscure issues that I am just running into: a) When I compile a method in another category, no recategorized event is generated. Why? It is impossible to find out where a method "came from" when using the modified event. This is easy to fix since the code in ClassDescription>>addAndClassifySelector: selector withMethod: compiledMethod inProtocol: category notifying: requestor explicitly suppresses this notification. But the question remains - why do it in the first place? b) When renaming a class the renamed event refers to the class under the old name. In other words, rather than getting our hands on the class under the name by which it is known in the environment we get it under the old name which no longer exists in the environment. Why? This is totally inconsistent - it exposes the fact that the invariant "aClass == aClass environment at: aClass name" is temporarily broken. Why? If there are any good reasons for the strange behavior above I'd really like to know why it behaves that way. Cheers, - Andreas

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Was: (Reality speed check. etc.)
by Peace Jerome 06 May '05

06 May '05

>To: >Reality speed check. etc. Andreas Raab wrote: >Geesh. This "benchmark" is as bogus as it gets. I think you are out of line here. First I�m more on you side than not. A fifty percent performance degradation is a pretty good argument for change. Second I only claimed it to be a little test, which it is. I never claimed it to be a �benchmark�. Third it is useful not bogus to do these tests. You are not trying to convince me. I�ve yet to get my major contributions into squeak. You need to convince people like Diego who have the energy and the chops to change �== nil� to �isNil� (in time critical inner loop code). And add 500 �translate:� messages to the image. >Try it with >polymorphic receivers (say more than 3 different ones to kill the cache >performance for a change). Cool. Suggest the code for this. The try it yourself tests are what will convince the others to go along with your argument. >Seriously, benchmarks should be defined by >people who understand what they are measuring. Happy to see them do it. How do we convince them to make the time? Besides, my curiosity is not to teach myself to run canned bench marks. My curiosity is why is squeak now slower than it used to be and what needs to be changed to speed it back up. >My comparison was based on the fact that the microbenchmarks And these microbench marks are where? and runnable how? >show that >*on average* the difference between bytecodes and sends is roughly 1:30. >On *average* mind you, not on a totally bogus, >send-the-same-message-to-the-same-object-with-guaranteed-cache-hit >"benchmark". > >And besides, system performance has very little to do with these >micro-benchmarks anyway So, HOW do we find and address the critical bottlenecks to good system performance? >I don't buy *any* of those points made about >how horrible it is that we aren't aware about how much time we "waste" >when sending a message instead of utilizing a bytecode. Whoa. Then what was your point about bytecodes vs. sends being 1:30? To improve (or accept) the speed of squeak (or tweak) what should we focusing on? How should we measure it? > >Let's stop this pointless discussion, shall we? I don�t see how the discussion is pointless. Squeak to be useful to as many as possible needs to run at an acceptable speed on as many machines as possible. The speed degradation as the versions progress has to be tracked. And the opportunity to work on squeak has to be extended as widely as possible. You Mr. Raab are a warhorse. Your knowledge of what goes on in the internals of squeak may be unsurpassed. You may have forgotten how much time you�ve dedicated to getting that knowledge. You also have a warhorse�s work load on your plate. It will take a good deal of your future time and dedication to achieve what you�ve set out to achieve with tweak. Some of the work on the projects you�ve left behind will have to be left to others. We can not be expected to have all of your experience or acumen. Still we have our uses and our efforts are needed if squeak is to be maintained and improved. Personally, I have read your code and I have found your bugs. I have a good knowledge of the quality and quantity of your work. I have been impressed by it and I have seen its limitations. I respect your knowledge and your fire and dedication for good code and a useful squeak environment. I hope you will learn to respect my ability to make useful contributions to the projects you have cared about. Take up your task of teaching and explaining cheerfully. Be patient with those of us who don�t know all that you know. You were once in this position yourself. How did you learn? Cheers and joy, --Jerome Peace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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