Squeak-dev September 2005

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

157 participants
266 discussions

SqueakSource problem
by Serge Stinckwich 21 Sep '05

21 Sep '05

Hi all, when i'm looking at the projects list at SqueakSource or when i'm using the search form, there is no Shout package ... but the package seems to be still here : http://squeaksource.com/shout/ I'm also trying to add http://squeaksource.com/shout as a repository in a 3.8 image without success. I have the error : At least one digit expected here because there is a mcz file : Shout-tween.alpha.1.mcz -- oooo Dr. Serge Stinckwich OOOOOOOO Université de Caen>CNRS UMR 6072>GREYC>MAD OOESUGOO http://purl.org/net/SergeStinckwich oooooo Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)] \ / ##

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Sqeak&TheArtnCraftofTheOffTopicConversation [Re: BabyUML overview posted]
by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au 21 Sep '05

21 Sep '05

Wow is this OFF TOPIC? But before I continue to perfect the topic of the OffTopicConversation, would some kind person send me the beginning ot the original Topic. Or better still Where is the complete Archive? Owing to an email limit, I delete 90% of my Squeak mail. It is volumous. It is sad that I must lose so much of this precious, beautiful, but mindless Nature. Not surprisingly I clicked on this one, half way through the conversation. Hmm? what has all this got to do with the topic in the Subject line? Oh well this is probably more interesting anyway It just happens to be a perfect example of the Creative non Engineering mind. Engineering as I know it, is the repetitive application of logic from a single founding principle to its final absurd result, and Commonly call a Loop, most applicable to the modern Industrial process. Crafting actually belongs to the Medieval Guild System and the process is called Manufacturing i.e. a go-between. (Medieval ~ mediocre evaluation). You guessed it I'm a mindless Industrial slave. Well what has all this got to do with [Re: BabyUML overview posted]? Nothing really except to point out the huge difficulty adult, mature people, have with Smalltalk in general and Squeak in particular. Not doubt this too will go OffTopic . ADHS is a common disease these days. JW ---- Bob Courchaine <bobc(a)nfldinet.com> wrote: > Trygve Reenskaug wrote: > > > Since I started my career as a chartered electical engineer, I am > > curious to know what you see as the difference between craftspeople > > and engineers? :-) > > I come from a craft tradition, Trygve. I first worked in the building > trades and in the theatre building scenery. > > The software writing activities I do now reflect that. I approach my > work as an integral part of myself, not as a mechanical activity defined > by facts that can be done by anyone else w/ the appropriate > certification (licensing). > > Pete McBreen wrote, in my opinion, a really good book that explores the > difference. > > In "Software Craftsmanship: The New Imperative" (ISBN: 0-201-73386-2), > he makes these distinctions: > > "The biggest problem with software engineering is the assumption that a > systematic, disciplined, and quantifiable approach is the only possible > approach." > > ... > > "This mechanical view omits the fact that better developers make far > fewer mistakes and are much better at finding defects. Software > engineering makes us forget that what really matters on a project is the > skill, knowledge, and experience of the individual software developers." > > That's not to say that rigor, discipline, etc can't and shouldn't be > applied to certain parts of the process. And certainly a team charged w/ > a project like writing software to control the Space Shuttle had better > approach it as an engineering activity! > > But McBreen positions the distinction like this: > > "I see software development as a creative blend of art, science, and > engineering, whose purpose is to deliver effective systems. The best way > I have been able to describe this idea is by talking about software > craftsmanship. The software craftsmanship metaphor allows developers to > acknowledge all aspects of their craft—the artistic and aesthetic > aspects as well as the measurable and mechanical aspects." > > >From what I see, the process at work here on Squeak is every bit a > collective effort of master craftspeople! > > Bob >

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Ottawa Smalltalk Users Group meeting Oct 5th, 2005
by David Buck 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

Smalltalk from the Trenches David Buck Simberon Incorporated HP5115 Carleton University, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Oct 5th, 2005 at 7:00pm David recounts some of his experiences as a Smalltalk consultant. Starting in 1993, he has worked for dozens of organizations and has seen great successes and great failures. In this presentation, he tells the stories of some of these projects and the lessons he learned from them. He explains his views on modern software development and how Smalltalk and Smalltalk developers have led the way to the modern techniques and practices that he teaches in Simberon's courses. He shows how, even now, the future of software development is being led by Smalltalk whether or not the rest of the world cares to notice. Location Details The meeting will be held in Room 5115, Herzberg Laboratories (building 13 on the map at http://www.carleton.ca/cu/campus/ ). Pay-parking is available in Lot 1, 2, and parking meters can be found along University Drive. Free parking is available across Bronson Avenue opposite Lot 5. Please RSVP to david(a)simberon.com if you plan to attend.

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Image using high CPU in WeakIdentityKeyDictionary>>scanFor:
by Ross Boylan 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

I continue to have major problems with squeak taking up all the CPU and becoming extraordinarily sluggish (e.g., 15 seconds to respond to click, minutes to complete some operations). A TimeProfile while the system was doing nothing showed virtually all (99.4%) the time going to WeakIdentityDictionary>>scanFor:. This time is roughly evenly split between primitives and WeakKeyAssociation>>key. Highpoints of the stack (sorry, there doesn't seem to be a good way to copy or fileout the whole thing) with "..." indicating omissions: PasteUpMorph>>doOneCycle ... SystemWindow>>stepAt: TimeProfileBrowser(Object)>>stepAt:in: ... TimeProfileBrowser(Object)>>updateListsAndCodeIn: ... TimeProfileBrowser(Object)>>canDiscardEdits SystemWindow(Object)>>canDiscardEdits ... SystemWindow(Object)>>myDependents WeakIdentityKeyDictionary(Dictionary)>>at:ifAbsent: WeakIdentityKeyDictionary(Set)>>findElementOrNil: WeakIdentityKeyDictionary>>scanFor Memory activity and GC looks minimal. Does anyone have any idea about what the deeper cause of this problem might be, or where to look. Even better if you have a solution :) The problem with the VM taking up lots of CPU and not responding has been going on for months, though its form has been variable. Sometimes the squeak profiler shows it's using very little CPU, while the operating system tools disagree. Sometimes garbage collecting or saving the image helps. At the moment, they don't. Completely exiting the image and restarting grants a temporary respite. Undoubtedly I need to redesign my app, but I'd like to survive until I get that done. My current plan: 1. migrate to 3.8 image 2. add database 3. see what problems remain and redesign as needed. I think for most db's (I'm going to try Magma) require a current image, so 1 needs to come first. Also, DateAndTime is a major time sink, and 3.8 has a much zippier version. I'm running the latest official Unix VM on Debian; I think that's basically the same as Ian's latest release. My image is roughly 3.6. Some stats: Smalltalk vmVersion 'Squeak3.8gamma of ''24 November 2004'' [latest update: #6548]' memory 104,027,704 bytes old 46,287,164 bytes (44.5%) young 335,604 bytes (0.3%) used 46,622,768 bytes (44.8%) free 57,404,936 bytes (55.2%) GCs 6,982 (131ms between GCs) full 0 totalling 0ms (0.0% uptime) incr 6982 totalling 28,468ms (3.0% uptime), avg 4.0ms tenures 19 (avg 367 GCs/tenure) Since last view -397,640 uptime -116345.1s full -34 totalling -15,907ms (0.0% uptime), avg 468.0ms incr -397606 totalling -346,430ms (0.0% uptime), avg tenures -167 (avg 2380 GCs/tenure) WeakKeyAssociation allInstances size 7456 (though this last statistic is while the system was behaving OK after a quit and restart). Ross Boylan

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Re: Dictionaries broken in 3.9a
by Chris Muller 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

Sorry if my "fix" disrupted you Andreas, I guess I fixed the wrong thing. But while Dictionary's appear able to contain nil keys afterall, what about WeakKeyDictionarys? As their keys are garbage-collected and converted to nil it would be unpredictable, at best. Therefore, what do you think of my overriding #associationsDo: in WeakKeyDictionary, which was the real crux of my original fix back in June of '04? I should have just stopped with this.. associationsDo: aBlock "Evaluate aBlock for each of the receiver's elements (key/value associations)." super associationsDo: [ : eachAssoc | | eachKey | eachKey _ eachAssoc key. "reference to ensure no GC" eachKey ifNotNil: [ aBlock value: eachAssoc ] ] I've run with this since that time without any problem, but even better with expert feedback. Incidentally, there may be a few special side-effects to having a nil key in a regular Dictionary which could bite at some point. For example: (Dictionary new at: nil put: 'nil') keys Regards, Chris

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How to mark as internationalizable
by stéphane ducasse 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

hi guy I failed to find how I could solve that. I remember that there was a table somewhere but I could not find it. Any idea? 0001760: isOverColor message cannot be translated Description The following messages need to be marked as internationalizable : - isOverColor - dotSize - connections to me Stef

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Re: Squeak-dev Digest, Vol 33, Issue 36
by Dave Mason 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Tim Rowledge wrote: > For a start, it wouldn't make Squeak even more portable OK. Forget that part. That was a supplementary reason. > Next, consider the appalling overheads. So far as I can work out the > typical java vm and support libraries appear to occupy many hundreds > of megabytes. Indeed. However, just as the C/Slang-based Squeak VM doesn't use much of the available tens of megabytes of C libraries, a Java based one wouldn't likely use much of the hundreds of megabytes of Java libraries. More importantly, the point of this research is to create a compiler that *doesn't* include all of those megabytes of unnecessary cruft. And one of the things I'm looking for is challenging compilation targets. Compiling a Smalltalk VM implemented on the JavaVM and hoping to get anything *like* the performance of the existing Squeak VM would certainly be a challenge. I have no research interest in producing valid Java code that would work, or even .class files that a JavaVM would accept, but rather .class files that capture the Smalltalk classes and can be fed into my compiler, and make sure that the compiler accepts Smalltalk semantics as well as Java semantics. And the more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that the set of .class files that we would generate could be even *close* to what a JavaVM would accept. What might come out of this is not a better Smalltalk VM (I think that is very unlikely, and my compiler certainly doesn't target the range of architectures that VMMaker does), but a compiler that could take a set of Smalltalk classes out of an image and produce a small fast executable suitable for burning into ROM for some embedded application. > In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. - Brian Reid I don't know whether Tim chose this signature for this email, or if a random sig chooser did it, but I think it's very appropriate. In computer science research it is often difficult to tell a priori whether one is standing on the shoulders or the feet of others. This research builds on some very underdeveloped work called code coagulation, and I'm proposing also building on the shoulders of the Squeak community that has built this amazing environment. I was particularly looking for a bit of technical guidance. I would still appreciate any that is available. It is likely that the only part of VMMaker that would be useful to my student is the part that identifies the classes and methods that are needed for the VM. All of the code generation will be very different. ../Dave

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[BUG]SokobanMorph class(Object)>>error:
by alangrimes＠starpower.net 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

[ I wuz tryin to file out a method from Montechello becuz I couldn't highlight and copy it... (Maybe the hotkeys work but I'm too stupid to remember them... =( This is what happened... ] 16 September 2005 9:05:51 pm VM: unix - a SmalltalkImage Image: Squeak3.7 [latest update: #5989] SecurityManager state: Restricted: false FileAccess: true SocketAccess: true Working Dir /home/atg Trusted Dir /home/atg/secure Untrusted Dir /home/atg/My Squeak SokobanMorph class(Object)>>error: Receiver: SokobanMorph Arguments and temporary variables: aString: 'Selector calculatedPosnForPointOffset: not found' Receiver's instance variables: superclass: Morph methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#addControls:->a CompiledMethod (428) #again->a ...etc... format: 150 instanceVariables: #('sworld' 'scoremorph' 'player' 'boxes') organization: ('event handling' handlesKeyboard: handlesMouseOver: keyStroke: m...etc... subclasses: nil name: #SokobanMorph classPool: a Dictionary(#Fields->an IdentityDictionary($ ->[] in SokobanMorph c...etc... sharedPools: nil environment: a SystemDictionary(lots of globals) category: nil SokobanMorph class(ClassDescription)>>fileOutMethod:asHtml: Receiver: SokobanMorph Arguments and temporary variables: selector: #calculatedPosnForPointOffset: useHtml: false fileStream: nil nameBody: nil Receiver's instance variables: superclass: Morph methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#addControls:->a CompiledMethod (428) #again->a ...etc... format: 150 instanceVariables: #('sworld' 'scoremorph' 'player' 'boxes') organization: ('event handling' handlesKeyboard: handlesMouseOver: keyStroke: m...etc... subclasses: nil name: #SokobanMorph classPool: a Dictionary(#Fields->an IdentityDictionary($ ->[] in SokobanMorph c...etc... sharedPools: nil environment: a SystemDictionary(lots of globals) category: nil SokobanMorph class(ClassDescription)>>fileOutMethod: Receiver: SokobanMorph Arguments and temporary variables: selector: #calculatedPosnForPointOffset: Receiver's instance variables: superclass: Morph methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#addControls:->a CompiledMethod (428) #again->a ...etc... format: 150 instanceVariables: #('sworld' 'scoremorph' 'player' 'boxes') organization: ('event handling' handlesKeyboard: handlesMouseOver: keyStroke: m...etc... subclasses: nil name: #SokobanMorph classPool: a Dictionary(#Fields->an IdentityDictionary($ ->[] in SokobanMorph c...etc... sharedPools: nil environment: a SystemDictionary(lots of globals) category: nil [] in MCPatchBrowser(MCCodeTool)>>fileOutMessage {[self selectedClassOrMetaClass fileOutMethod: self selectedMessageName]} Arguments and temporary variables: --- The full stack --- SokobanMorph class(Object)>>error: SokobanMorph class(ClassDescription)>>fileOutMethod:asHtml: SokobanMorph class(ClassDescription)>>fileOutMethod: [] in MCPatchBrowser(MCCodeTool)>>fileOutMessage {[self selectedClassOrMetaClass fileOutMethod: self selectedMessageName]} - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - BlockContext>>ensure: CursorWithMask(Cursor)>>showWhile: MCPatchBrowser(MCCodeTool)>>fileOutMessage MCPatchBrowser>>perform:orSendTo: [] in MenuItemMorph>>invokeWithEvent: {[(selArgCount := selector numArgs) = 0 ifTrue: [target perform: selector] ...]} BlockContext>>ensure: CursorWithMask(Cursor)>>showWhile: MenuItemMorph>>invokeWithEvent: MenuItemMorph>>mouseUp: MenuItemMorph>>handleMouseUp: MouseButtonEvent>>sentTo: MenuItemMorph(Morph)>>handleEvent: MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchDefault:with: MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchEvent:with: MenuItemMorph(Morph)>>processEvent:using: MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchDefault:with: MorphicEventDispatcher>>dispatchEvent:with: MenuMorph(Morph)>>processEvent:using: MenuMorph(Morph)>>processEvent: MenuMorph>>handleFocusEvent: [] in HandMorph>>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: {[ActiveHand := self. ActiveEvent := anEvent. result := focusHolder han...]} [] in PasteUpMorph>>becomeActiveDuring: {[aBlock value]} BlockContext>>on:do: PasteUpMorph>>becomeActiveDuring: HandMorph>>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: HandMorph>>sendEvent:focus:clear: HandMorph>>sendMouseEvent: HandMorph>>handleEvent: HandMorph>>processEvents [] in WorldState>>doOneCycleNowFor: {[:h | ActiveHand := h. h processEvents. capturingGesture := capturingGest...]} Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: WorldState>>handsDo: ...etc...

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DosSqueak1.1
by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

On what version of Dos should DosSqueak1.1 be run?

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VMMaker generate Java (JavaVM class files)?
by Dave Mason 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

I am working on a high-quality static compiler that currently accepts Java class files as input. I have a Masters student looking for a project, and I was thinking that it might not be *too* much work to re-target VMMaker to generate Java or Java class files. This would possibly make squeak even more portable, and would provide a good test-bed for my compiler. Opinions (pro and con, technical and philosophical) welcome. I think I also noticed that someone was essentially running Smalltalk code directly on a Java VM. I'd be interested in pointers to that work too. I've set the reply-to to me, because I don't think this is likely of interest to many other people at present, but if you're interested let me know and I'll either post a followup or send you an email when I've gathered replies. Thanks ../Dave

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