Hi Danil,
Thanks for making your points clear. My "rant" was meant as a general remark -- to argue that without initiative the tools will not get better over night... Here some background: I put a fair amount of time into a smooth integration of Traits into 3.9 (which I originally implemented for 3.7) and for example also made Monticello Traits-aware. I also said that I cannot put work into the UI. Daniel, Andrew, and Tom then worked on the TraitsOmniBrowser but somehow the effort got stuck just a bit before being really usable out of the box. I think, people that are interested in using Traits and need a more sophisticated UI than the current OmniBrowser in 3.9 should join forces and improve the TraitsOmniBrowser. (This browser btw. has some other nice features unrelated to Traits as well.) I suggest to contact one of the original authors. In general, the SqueakSource repository has global write access so anybody can commit improvements.
Adrian
On Feb 21, 2007, at 13:04 , danil osipchuk wrote:
I tried TraitsOmniBrowser and as I recall I could not be productive with it. However it was half-year ago and I will take a fresh look. Adrian, sorry if my post sounded like a harsh complain (it was a complain indeed), but my intent was not all that negative. I just wanted to bring up this topic again (in a bit provocative way, I admit) and also to stress two points:
- There are people who care about traits and who appreciate any
work in this direction. 2) Discussions popup from time to time, in which traits benefits are questioned basing on the fact that they are not used widely, although they are in the image for a quite a lot of time. I would like to counter this train of thought by telling that we can not say traits concept failed, because nobody used them.
So, please see my post in this context. I personally believe that traits are benefitial and I would like to apply them and to see if it is true.
Regarding the help, I would like to offer help in this case. In fact when I miss something, I'm trying to do it silently myself. But in this case I'm just not sure if I'm quilified - this is language infrastracture topic and I'm more 'userland' kind of guy. But if you need help - could you please describe what kind of help do you expect? If not me - probably other interested could jump in.
Regards, Danil
Adrian Lienhard wrote:
Have you tried TraitsOmniBrowser (http://www.squeaksource.com/ TraitsOmniBrowser.html)? Also, the OmniBrowser in the image has basic support for Traits. Of course the tools are not perfect. Instead of helping to improve the situation people tend to complain. Unfortunately this will not bring us forward. But hey, its not that important, is it?
Adrian
BTW, Monticello supports Traits too
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