Hi, I want to jump into the discussion because IMHO it’s a very important one. I see the topic “what is the best web site” in a wider range. For me it’s about the potential of Squeak as a development platform in the *commercial* area. I guess all of the Squeak guys here on the list want to see a growth of Squeak (also) in the business domain. And my posting only reflects the business view.
I will tell you my impression as a person who isn’t related to the Squeak community. But I’ve used Smalltalk heavily in the nineties for big commercial projects and therefore I *really* know the power of Smalltalk – nobody needs to convince me.
A week ago I was looking for a agile environment to wrap a RDBS and make some forms to query and manipulate the tables. When googling around I found links about GLORP, Seaside and Squeak. This was my starting point for digging deeper into the topic “Squeak”. I’ve tried to get an impression for myself whether Squeak is something my company can use for business. I wouldn’t have invest all this time if I did not know Smalltalk from the past. And indeed the current web site (www.squeak.org) wouldn’t have convinced me to invest more time in reading it. But I’ve got curious about my “old love Smalltalk”.
So let me tell you, what I’ve did. When I’m investigating a new product or technology I try to find answers to two aspects. 1) How stable and productive is the product/technology *now* and 2) how it will develop in the *future*. 2) is mainly related how big the community behind a product is and also (!) how the community reacts and how the community is organized (IMO very important in the Open Source area).
Ok, long talk for an introduction I will tell you now honestly my personal impression in some notes to my points 1) and 2):
- I was impressed what Squeak can deliver *today* for some of my business needs. But there is no central entry point (or I haven’t found) where I could find all the answers to my questions on the web. Probably somebody else would have give up searching soon (or immediately).
- From the central web site and Wiki I’ve got the impression that Squeak is a Smalltalk environment related in the educational area. I’m missing a clear statement for using it in business.
- Whether somebody likes or dislikes a web site is of course a subjective feeling but I agree 100% with Stef and Adrian that the current web site prevents to see Squeak as an environment for commercial purpose. Indeed I wouldn’t tell my potential customers that it’s Squeak that powers his new application but say it’s Smalltalk (of course this depends to the kind of customers).
I’ve got the impression that Squeak in the business domain is driven by a small circle of enthusiastic individualists. I’ve also recognized some companies are using it for business. And there are some Universities that teach and make fancy things. But from what I’ve seen at the first view I have *not* got the impression there is or will be much growth. Squeak is in a niche and it will stay there. On the other hand when I consider the benefits of Smalltalk and take into account all the free packages that are available *today* for Squeak I see a high potential! (Again: I’m only talking about the aspect “Squeak as a commercial development platform", what for me means people can make revenue with it.).
I believe here is a big mismatch. The question is how to fix it. The web site of Squeak is the entrance into the Squeak world. It’s Squeak’s business card. I would argue this business card doesn’t fit to the business needs (again I only focusing the topic “using Squeak for commercial development”). I would like to see a site that is totally focused on that topic (e.g. squeak4business.org). Here I want to get all my answers. Such a site would be a first step. This doesn’t mean that Squeak has to become commercial driven. But you have to give the new Squeak applicants in the business area a single consistent view and don’t irritate them with a pink bunny.
To achieve this you need some key people that take the leadership and push the growth of Squeak in the business domain. Nothing comes from alone! You need some common goals, mile stones, etc. My company is using Plone and IMO the Plone people have managed to install such an environment to grow their business. Look at the site www.plone.org and you will get an impression what I mean.
For me the question of Squeak’s web site is only one aspect (Btw, I also would argue that the new one is better suited for business needs). The real question for me is, whether you - as the Squeak community - are willing to push the usage of Squeak in the business domain. If you answer with a “yes” then you should discuss the question, how to achieve this…
Regards, Franz Josef