On 11/14/2009 11:29 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
Folks -
I feel like the recent discussion about directions left us without much progress in terms of where we think Squeak is headed. I actually don't think this is particularly hard to formulate, since as we all know, Squeak will be headed where we make it head to. In other words, I think we could come up with a pretty good idea of where Squeak will be headed if those people who actually contribute tell a little bit more about their interests and directions. So let me be the first to start here:
My long-term vision for Squeak is to bring it back to being a medium for personal dynamic media. I want Squeak to be a fun, educational, small, dynamic, media-centric environment. My current immediate directions include:
- Making the system be more modular. Adding the Morphic TextEditors,
refactoring Project, being able to unload various packages are in line with that. Expect more from me in this area as time allows.
- Figuring out how to load packages, projects, etc back in. I haven't
done much about this yet, but we desperately need better tools for (roughly speaking) "loading apps". Squeakmap gets some things right, Universes address others, both aren't very well integrated with Monticello, and by the end of the day the UIs for all of them suck.
- Restore the media facilities. I'd really like to see the next Squeak
version bring back Speech, bring back Games, bring back Wonderland etc. All in loadable project form so that people can explore them based on a small initial foot print.
I'd be interested in hearing what others working on and in Squeak have to say about their own directions. Together it should give a pretty comprehensive understanding about where Squeak is headed in practice.
Cheers, - Andreas
Thanks for starting this thread.
What I would like to see with Squeak and I really don't know how possible it is or what it would take or even if it would be acceptable and supported by the community. But here goes.
Presently I am writing an app that I would love to do in Squeak but cannot. Why Squeak? Simply because I love working within a live environment. I love the tools available for writing the code. I love being able to fix a problem live and continue on. Not starting all over.
But I am constrained. I am provided two options for my application. 1. Interface with a Windows COM library. 2. Interface with Java libraries.
I would love to see Squeak running on the JVM able to import and interoperate with native Java libraries. I would love to see Squeak give Jython or Clojure a run for their money. I would love to see Squeak enable more people to use less of Java. I would love to see Squeak enable more people to make a living within the constraints imposed upon them by the business world by using Squeak.
I really believe that the more people who can make a living using Squeak, the better the opportunities for Squeak to be those things the rest of the community would like. A thriving ecosystem with a healthy number of users enables a lot of things.
And like Andreas said in the Sophie thread,
This entirely line of arguments is one of the better reasons why "being popular" isn't such a bad thing :-)
I would love to see myself, Andreas and whomever not have to choose Python, etc. for some of the things that it gets chosen for. I would love to do those things in Squeak and better than I can do them in Python.
So presently I am using Python with win32 extensions to access the COM dll, writing data to a MongoDB, reading the MongoDB from Jython and passing the data to some Java libraries and then doing other stuff in Jython and passing data back to MongoDB and Python win32. :( But it works.
I don't know how much technically I can contribute to my vision above. But at a later time I would possibly be interested in finding out if it is reasonable to pay (fund) to have Squeak on the JVM.
And yes I know about the start that Dan made on that direction. But I don't know how complete it is. And if it meets all of the requirements.
I think this could get Squeak into the business world in a way that it currently cannot. I think this could also provide a potential migratory path for people who choose so to move away from Java but are constrained not due to technical reasons but political and bureaucratic. Why should we have a great Lisp dialect (Clojure) on the JVM and not have an equally good Squeak (Smalltalk)?
And then maybe we can win Sophie back to Squeak. :)
Just some of my thoughts.
Thanks.
Jimmie