Yes I agree ranting is a good description. Add desperate. Most of you guys live in the free-est nation on earth and enjoy unbelievable CHOICES and outlets for opportunity (the downside is that freedom, like fast food, can lead to intellectual obesity). An earlier Britannica broadly describes society as models: Culture Pattern (Nth America_ Structure Function (Europe) ....Conflict (Marxist) ....Physical Science (Burocratic) (concentration camp) J.W. ....Logical A priori, Mathematical (WWW) J.W.
You decide which one I'm in. Australians existence rides on the back of sheep. Perhaps in the mind too. Thanks for the defence. Ciao
----- Original Message ----- From: danielv@netvision.net.il To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:20 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Interview about C#
Hi guys.
Bert, it didn't sound to me like Justin was attacking John, just ranting. Which, as you say, is very close to the "noise" side of the scale, but not really malevolent.
Justin, if your ISP doesn't give you service, switch. Even if you don't, stop using their email address - get a forwarding account elsewhere. That way you're not advertising them, and you're not tying yourself to them by giving people your address there. This way you can switch later on.
Refering back to the ([OT]) topic, by way of conjecture - I don't think MS views Smalltalk anything like the way they view Java. Java is a large competitor platform, that's pretty consolidated around industry standards they're excluded from controlling. Smalltalk is a bunch of small, independent players of different kinds, none religiously adherent to any specific competing strategy. Smalltalk has always adapted - by encapsulating (Squeak, VW) or by tying in (Digitalk, Smallscript). MS loves (to have - no sentiments implied) adapters. Smallscript is a showcase for how a Smalltalk adaptation helps MS - by using the .Net class library, Smallscript is yet another way to for people to tie themselves into MS control.
What Sarkela refers to is something that is pretty control-neutral, and otherwise positive - MS is making it's VMs pretty language agnostic. Yes, Smalltalk will feel at home on that VM, and so does Mercury, a Logic/Functional language, and quite a bunch of other research platforms that MS has paid to port to it, and which appear to have affected the VM spec.
This might make it more likely people will be using applications written in something other than a syntactic variant of Java/C#, which is good.
I say control neutral becuase that ties in only whoever does the adaptations over their VM, not the users of the language. Maybe weak-control would be better.
Daniel P.S. - not that I would ever bring such a trojan horse into my home, of course, but it's good to be aware how exactly they're tightening their vice on most of the industry.
Bert Freudenberg bert@isg.cs.uni-magdeburg.de wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Justin Walsh wrote:
Hi Sarkela, No offence but, [...]
Justin,
that was pretty rude. You're on this list for a very short time, you
don't
know who John Sarkela is, so why do you attack him in such a way?
I don't think this list is the place for such unfounded rants (which
have
even less to do with Squeak or Smalltalk than the philosophical
quarreling
flooding in here lately).
-- Bert
PS: No, I'm no MS advocate, I think they're evil, too. But it's way
better
to do something about it: I for my part try to help Squeak run on a Free OS. There's a lot to do, still - you just might want to join
us.