Hernan Tylim wrote on Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:59:14 -0300
I just wanted to state something that I think most of all proponents of keeping etoys are missing. Sorry in advance if its not the case or this statement of mine sound a little harsh. (please blame my lack of a better english, and time to write it better)
I kept reading and reading this thread and the other ones related to it, and everybody who asked to keep etoys on squeak-dev seemed to me that they were not aware that the currently etoy image isn't the current squeak-dev. If you want to use etoys you need to use the squeakland image.
Perhaps it would be better to say "it is recommended that you use the Squeakland image".
While its true that etoys works on 3.9, remember that the maintainance of etoys is done on the squeakland image (which is not even a squeak-dev 3.8 image, only one based on it)
While it is natural that you have this impression, my own impression is a bit different (it might be wrong). I see the following options available to someone wanting to use eToys:
Squeak 3.9 Squeakland (based on 3.8) SmallLand (based on 3.8) OLPC (based on the Squeakland one)
This last option is the one that has the latest fixes and enhancements to eToys but I am not sure that there is no plan to make this stuff available to the others. My impression is that the current situation is more due to the urgent deadlines of the OLPC project than to some plan to fork things.
So what I don't understand is why everybody insists on using etoys in squeak-dev 3.9, when the people behind etoys don't use, nor maintain, nor can make any kind of assurance about etoys in 3.9.
I looked back at the last couple of month's discussions in this list and found people speculating what the plans of the Squeakland group are but not actual details from people in a position to know. So I will avoid guessing myself and will wait to hear from them.
In fact I think its contraproducent to keep etoys in this setup. Because we risk that anyone wanting to use squeak because of etoys, they might have a bad etoy experience because they are using 3.9. I, on the other hand, would always direct all the people interested in etoys to an squeakland image instead.
Having helped people on the #squeak IRC channel who were following some tutorials about eToys and Kedama I agree this can be a problem. But telling them to get a Squeakland image is not always a good solution.
Lastly I would like to ask Ron, Klaus, Jecel, Lex, Marcus, and the other people that on this thread said that wanted to keep etoys if they have considered this issue and I would like to know what they think. Again. Apologies if my mail didn't sound right. I am just curious and no offense was meant to anyone.
What I want to avoid is a squeak-dev / squeakland fork. If this has already happened (in a definitive way, temporary forks happen all the time) then all my arguments are silly and should be ignored.
-- Jecel