Ned,
====================== Anyone who sends UCS-2 (2 bytes per character) or UTF-16 over the wire is probably doing something wrong if most of the bytes are zero. ======================
Again, the device in question is quite old by computer standards, and was (arguably still is in some ways) ahead of its time, with a few staggering inefficiencies in places.
====================== UTF-8 is the preferred character encoding for this. If your characters are all in the Latin-1 set, you don't spend any extra bytes. ======================
Sounds great.
====================== You should look at Yoshiki's work. He adds new kinds of String and Character (as I recall); these carry their encoding with them. Since he's also concerned about translation and about other potential problems with Unicode and Asian languages (look up "Han Unification" for some pointers), these Strings (and Characters?) also can carry more information about desired rendering, language of origin, etc. But most of the Strings and Characters in the Squeak image should remain untouched. ======================
This is very encouraging, and suggests that Squeak will get this right. My reason for raising the concern is simply that I didn't want to back out of the _/:= hack too soon. Given Yoshiki's estimate of 3.8 or 4.0 for integration of his work, it seems wise to step back, let him give us proper back arrows, and then sort out what if anything remains to be done. If however, Squeak's unicode support was going to turn out to be bloating to images, it would find itself unused in many cases, and there would still be a need for a hack.
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bills@anest4.anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
Bill,
This is very encouraging, and suggests that Squeak will get this right. My reason for raising the concern is simply that I didn't want to back out of the _/:= hack too soon. Given Yoshiki's estimate of 3.8 or 4.0 for integration of his work, it seems wise to step back, let him give us proper back arrows, and then sort out what if anything remains to be done. If however, Squeak's unicode support was going to turn out to be bloating to images, it would find itself unused in many cases, and there would still be a need for a hack.
Please note that multilingualized Squeak is nothing new; it just has never been integrated with the main stream image. Surely it is constantly evolving, but the multilingualized Squeak has been out there more than three years and has been used by thousands of people.
There are books on the Japanese version of Squeak Etoys and one of these got the #1 spot in the computer books sales ranking two weeks in a row. Etc., etc.
I think it is usable and I guess many other who use it think so too. It is just hard to integrate when both the base image and m17n package is changing^^;
Oh, by the way, a four page article I wrote for a magazine just came out last week^^; Also, the "A Quick Trip to Objectland" book got translated and published last week, too.
-- Yoshiki
Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org wrote: [SNIP]
Oh, by the way, a four page article I wrote for a magazine just came out last week^^; Also, the "A Quick Trip to Objectland" book got translated and published last week, too.
Cool! Congrats! What was the article about? I have also gotten 2 articles published - though in a small magazine targeted at teachers. The first one was general about Squeak - with the Squeak logo filling the frontpage! :) The second one explains Etoys and shows the Drive-a-car tutorial step by step with nice screenshots.
Also have gotten a nice contact (a teacher which just happens to be my neighbor and also a member of the school-IT-group in our "county" - which I didn't know, quite funny) regarding pushing Etoys into the schools where I live - we have Montessori schools all the way up to age 15 and also others. It will be interesting to see where it goes.
-- Yoshiki
regards, Göran
Göran,
Oh, by the way, a four page article I wrote for a magazine just came out last week^^; Also, the "A Quick Trip to Objectland" book got translated and published last week, too.
Cool! Congrats! What was the article about? I have also gotten 2 articles published - though in a small magazine targeted at teachers. The first one was general about Squeak - with the Squeak logo filling the frontpage! :) The second one explains Etoys and shows the Drive-a-car tutorial step by step with nice screenshots.
Congratulations for you, too! Is there any web site of the magazine that I can take a look at and put the link on my blog^^;?
The magazine is called "Lightweight Language Magazine" and the magazine is about Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, and etc. A section is devoted to "other" languages like Haskell, Emacs Lisp, and Squeak. As you could imagine, the target audience is "language nerds" type.
I still don't know if Squeak qualifies as a "Lightweight Language," whatever the definition is, but more visibility is better.
http://www.ascii.co.jp/books/detail/4-7561/4-7561-4441-1.html
The article first explains the concept ("it is all about the objects and message sending"), what you can do to extend syntax, ("define a global var called 'If' and test:then:else: method, or extend the compiler").
Then, how you'd inspect the variable in a debugger ("step 1"), how you'd modify the code ("step 2") in a debugger, and how you add new inst var to the object you're debugging ("step 3"). (The example code shown happened to be the DVD subtitles renderer^^;)
Then, the applications, Etoys as the killer app, Seaside as web application framework to compete other "P and R" languages, and Croquet for one of the future direction.
Finally, the mailing lists, web sites, etc. to visit for those interested.
By the way, the translation of "A Quick Trip to Objectland" was done by Sugawara-san and Suzuki-san of Tottori prefecture supervised by Abe-san. (I did a bit of cheer leading, but nothing more.)
Also have gotten a nice contact (a teacher which just happens to be my neighbor and also a member of the school-IT-group in our "county" - which I didn't know, quite funny) regarding pushing Etoys into the schools where I live - we have Montessori schools all the way up to age 15 and also others. It will be interesting to see where it goes.
This is great. I hope the DVD helps!
-- Yoshiki
Hi all,
Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org wrote:
Göran,
Oh, by the way, a four page article I wrote for a magazine just came out last week^^; Also, the "A Quick Trip to Objectland" book got translated and published last week, too.
Cool! Congrats! What was the article about? I have also gotten 2 articles published - though in a small magazine targeted at teachers. The first one was general about Squeak - with the Squeak logo filling the frontpage! :) The second one explains Etoys and shows the Drive-a-car tutorial step by step with nice screenshots.
Congratulations for you, too! Is there any web site of the magazine that I can take a look at and put the link on my blog^^;?
The magazine is www.diu.se - but they don't have any electronic versions of the articles online. But "proof" can be seen in the TOC here:
http://www.diu.se/nr1-04/nr1-04.asp
...where the first article is listed on page 28. :) As you can see all is in swedish. Eventually I think the articles will be online as pdfs, at least at bluefish.
The magazine is called "Lightweight Language Magazine" and the magazine is about Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, and etc. A section is devoted to "other" languages like Haskell, Emacs Lisp, and Squeak. As you could imagine, the target audience is "language nerds" type.
I still don't know if Squeak qualifies as a "Lightweight Language," whatever the definition is, but more visibility is better.
Indeed.
[SNIP]
By the way, the translation of "A Quick Trip to Objectland" was done by Sugawara-san and Suzuki-san of Tottori prefecture supervised by Abe-san. (I did a bit of cheer leading, but nothing more.)
Sounds like a neat article.
Also have gotten a nice contact (a teacher which just happens to be my neighbor and also a member of the school-IT-group in our "county" - which I didn't know, quite funny) regarding pushing Etoys into the schools where I live - we have Montessori schools all the way up to age 15 and also others. It will be interesting to see where it goes.
This is great. I hope the DVD helps!
It sure does! Eagerly awaiting the one with subtitles. :)
-- Yoshiki
regards, Göran
Am 31.03.2004 um 11:49 schrieb goran.krampe@bluefish.se:
Hi all,
Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org wrote:
Göran,
Oh, by the way, a four page article I wrote for a magazine just came out last week^^; Also, the "A Quick Trip to Objectland" book got translated and published last week, too.
Cool! Congrats! What was the article about? I have also gotten 2 articles published - though in a small magazine targeted at teachers. The first one was general about Squeak - with the Squeak logo filling the frontpage! :) The second one explains Etoys and shows the Drive-a-car tutorial step by step with nice screenshots.
We should gather these articles on the Swiki. Is there already a "Squeak in the Press" page or one on "Squeak Books"? I found these, but they are too confused to be linked off the main page:
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/400 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/689 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1801
- Bert -
Bert Freudenberg bert@impara.de wrote:
We should gather these articles on the Swiki. Is there already a "Squeak in the Press" page or one on "Squeak Books"? I found these, but they are too confused to be linked off the main page:
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/400 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/689 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1801
These pages seem great to me -- link 'em! :) They are hard to find right now even when you know they exist.
-Lex
Hi all
I wrote some articles on Squeak in french. http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/Books.html I always tried to make them sexy and to hook the reader as much as I can. So if you can read french or even if you cannot you should have a look at what I wrote.
For the frenchs of the list, you can use the text if you find a way to get another publisher willing to publish some articles on Smalltalk.
Stef
On 1 avr. 04, at 18:13, Lex Spoon wrote:
Bert Freudenberg bert@impara.de wrote:
We should gather these articles on the Swiki. Is there already a "Squeak in the Press" page or one on "Squeak Books"? I found these, but they are too confused to be linked off the main page:
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/400 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/689 http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1801
These pages seem great to me -- link 'em! :) They are hard to find right now even when you know they exist.
-Lex
Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org wrote:
The magazine is called "Lightweight Language Magazine" and the magazine is about Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, and etc. A section is devoted to "other" languages like Haskell, Emacs Lisp, and Squeak. As you could imagine, the target audience is "language nerds" type.
I still don't know if Squeak qualifies as a "Lightweight Language," whatever the definition is, but more visibility is better.
Don't you know? Lightweight means "good" nowadays. People sprinkle it around everywhere. Frequently it means "doesn't have much code to it" (and thus, that it probably consumes heavy CPU and memory), but really, it can be applied to anything.
Be glad. It used to be that "object-oriented" meant good. For example, "this is an object-oriented operating system", or "this is an object-oriented desktop interface", or "this is an object-oriented toaster".
Unfortunately, an occasional holdout from the old days will occasionally pop up and say "this is a lightweight object-oriented mail reader".
:)
Every field seems to have these things. And it could be worse -- education folks have to contend with "child-centered" educational techniques. Blah!
-Lex
I still don't know if Squeak qualifies as a "Lightweight Language," whatever the definition is, but more visibility is better.
Don't you know? Lightweight means "good" nowadays. People sprinkle it around everywhere. Frequently it means "doesn't have much code to it" (and thus, that it probably consumes heavy CPU and memory), but really, it can be applied to anything.
Especially for living objects.
Ask your family doctor. Ask your family rocket scientist.
True doctors and scientists hate FatLivingObjects. (a nightmare to maintain)
Whitch doctors and scientists may object.
Be glad. It used to be that "object-oriented" meant good. For example, "this is an object-oriented operating system", or "this is an object-oriented desktop interface", or "this is an object-oriented toaster".
Merely object oriented doesn't buy much nowadays. Even a kitchen sink claims to be object oriented.
Unfortunately, an occasional holdout from the old days will occasionally pop up and say "this is a lightweight object-oriented mail reader".
:)
Every field seems to have these things. And it could be worse -- education folks have to contend with "child-centered" educational techniques. Blah!
Anyone interested in these things owes it to oneself to have a look at:
http://OpenLivingObjectOrientedLightWeightDbranesForChildrenOfAllAges.OpenSt...
It's truly lightweight, merely 100MicroBites (Planck size) in a tiny jar.
Cheers,
SmallSqueak.
Lex,
Yoshiki Ohshima Yoshiki.Ohshima@acm.org wrote:
The magazine is called "Lightweight Language Magazine" and the magazine is about Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, and etc. A section is devoted to "other" languages like Haskell, Emacs Lisp, and Squeak. As you could imagine, the target audience is "language nerds" type.
I still don't know if Squeak qualifies as a "Lightweight Language," whatever the definition is, but more visibility is better.
Don't you know? Lightweight means "good" nowadays. People sprinkle it around everywhere. Frequently it means "doesn't have much code to it" (and thus, that it probably consumes heavy CPU and memory), but really, it can be applied to anything.
Hehe, so it was good.
I finally got the magazine sent form publisher and browse it. It turned out it is a spin-off/inspired/... by the Lightweight Language Workshop http://ll2.ai.mit.edu.
It sounds like one of the committee said "the definition of the lightweight language is explicitly undefined" (or something like that). Nice definition.
-- Yoshiki
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Bill Schwab -
goran.krampe＠bluefish.se -
Lex Spoon -
smallsqueak.net -
stéphane ducasse -
Yoshiki Ohshima