Hey, Squeakers:
I'm looking to put together an appliance and the OLPC device is probably closest (perhaps with some tablet PCs) to what I envision.
I need a small, light, tough touch screen, no keyboard or mouse or hard-drive, but a wireless connection and maybe some flash memory.
And, obviously, it has to be Smalltalk-capable. :-)
Most of the interface will be on the level of fast food order taking--although, come to think of it, I probably need some handwriting-recognition functionality.
I know a lot of folks deal with unusual hardware here, anyone have any thoughts?
===Blake===
On Jan 30, 2007, at 18:35 , Blake wrote:
Hey, Squeakers:
I'm looking to put together an appliance and the OLPC device is probably closest (perhaps with some tablet PCs) to what I envision.
I need a small, light, tough touch screen, no keyboard or mouse or hard-drive, but a wireless connection and maybe some flash memory.
And, obviously, it has to be Smalltalk-capable. :-)
Most of the interface will be on the level of fast food order taking--although, come to think of it, I probably need some handwriting-recognition functionality.
I know a lot of folks deal with unusual hardware here, anyone have any thoughts?
What's your budget? And how "small" - PDA size, tablet pc size? The OLPC XO is inbetween (7.5" display) but has no touchscreen.
I guess Pocket Smalltalk could be ported basically everywhere, Squeak needs some more power.
- Bert -
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:59:11 -0800, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
What's your budget? And how "small" - PDA size, tablet pc size? The OLPC XO is inbetween (7.5" display) but has no touchscreen.
About the size of a clipboard or smaller. I should think a tablet's a bit too big and a PDA is a bit too small. I don't want users squinting at the thing.
I guess Pocket Smalltalk could be ported basically everywhere, Squeak needs some more power.
I don't want a terribly underpowered device, though obviously size and price constrain.
I want to keep the devices under $1K.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and suggestions.
Currently I'm working with the Nokia N800. It's not ideal (bigger screen would be better) but I'm thinking it will make a good baseline for development.
===Blake===
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Jan 30, 2007, at 18:35 , Blake wrote:
Hey, Squeakers:
I'm looking to put together an appliance and the OLPC device isprobably closest (perhaps with some tablet PCs) to what I envision.
I need a small, light, tough touch screen, no keyboard or mouse orhard-drive, but a wireless connection and maybe some flash memory.
And, obviously, it has to be Smalltalk-capable. :-) Most of the interface will be on the level of fast food ordertaking--although, come to think of it, I probably need some handwriting-recognition functionality.
I know a lot of folks deal with unusual hardware here, anyone haveany thoughts?
What's your budget? And how "small" - PDA size, tablet pc size? The OLPC XO is inbetween (7.5" display) but has no touchscreen.
I guess Pocket Smalltalk could be ported basically everywhere, Squeak needs some more power.
To add to Aaron Reichow post:
Is the Nokia N800 too low in CPU power?
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.html http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/
On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Brad Fuller wrote:
To add to Aaron Reichow post:
Is the Nokia N800 too low in CPU power?
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.html http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/
-- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com
And too add more-
My brand spankin' new N800 gets this for tinyBenchmarks:
18,348,623 bytecodes/sec and 667,395 sends/sec
I definitely feel the difference between the 770 and the N800 in Squeak. Squeak 3.9 out of the box is still too slow to use, but the performance of 3.2 and 3.4 is quite snappy. For those who may not have used older versions of Squeak, or not have used them for a while, _please_ _note_ that those older versions aren't that much different. It's pretty easy to port code between versions of Squeak in the 3.x series. Some folks seem to think that using 3.2 is like using Windows 3.1- far from it. Newer Squeaks have some features that may be required for your app- stuff from SqueakLand, traits, or some of the character/language support stuff. But for what most folks do, other than the obvious changes in look, a lot of folks wouldn't notice the difference very quickly.
Finding tablets under $1000 will pretty much limit you to PDA like devices like the Nokia N800 or possibly older used devices. But depending on your app, using Squeak 3.2 on a Nokia N800 might work out very well!
Regards, Aaron
Speaking about applications, what do people typically do with Squeak on their portable devices?
Ivan
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Reichow Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:01 PM To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: Re: OLPC-like device...
On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Brad Fuller wrote:
To add to Aaron Reichow post:
Is the Nokia N800 too low in CPU power?
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.html http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/
-- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com
And too add more-
My brand spankin' new N800 gets this for tinyBenchmarks:
18,348,623 bytecodes/sec and 667,395 sends/sec
I definitely feel the difference between the 770 and the N800 in Squeak. Squeak 3.9 out of the box is still too slow to use, but the performance of 3.2 and 3.4 is quite snappy. For those who may not have used older versions of Squeak, or not have used them for a while, _please_ _note_ that those older versions aren't that much different. It's pretty easy to port code between versions of Squeak in the 3.x series. Some folks seem to think that using 3.2 is like using Windows 3.1- far from it. Newer Squeaks have some features that may be required for your app- stuff from SqueakLand, traits, or some of the character/language support stuff. But for what most folks do, other than the obvious changes in look, a lot of folks wouldn't notice the difference very quickly.
Finding tablets under $1000 will pretty much limit you to PDA like devices like the Nokia N800 or possibly older used devices. But depending on your app, using Squeak 3.2 on a Nokia N800 might work out very well!
Regards, Aaron
I do similar things that I do with my desktop- I use it for most of what I do, with the exception of web browsing. For my PDA, that means:
1. Remote access via telnet and VNC 2. Notetaking 3. PIM stuff (there aren't any PIM apps that come installed on the Nokia tablets, so that's handy!) 4. Scripting of all kinds- like on the desktop, I like being able to write little snippits of code to tell me stuff.
I'm sure I"m forgetting something... but yeah, there you go!
Regards, Aaron
On Jan 30, 2007, at 7:15 PM, Ivan Tomek wrote:
Speaking about applications, what do people typically do with Squeak on their portable devices?
Ivan
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Reichow Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:01 PM To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: Re: OLPC-like device...
On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Brad Fuller wrote:
To add to Aaron Reichow post:
Is the Nokia N800 too low in CPU power?
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.html http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet- unboxed/
-- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com
And too add more-
My brand spankin' new N800 gets this for tinyBenchmarks:
18,348,623 bytecodes/sec and 667,395 sends/sec
I definitely feel the difference between the 770 and the N800 in Squeak. Squeak 3.9 out of the box is still too slow to use, but the performance of 3.2 and 3.4 is quite snappy. For those who may not have used older versions of Squeak, or not have used them for a while, _please_ _note_ that those older versions aren't that much different. It's pretty easy to port code between versions of Squeak in the 3.x series. Some folks seem to think that using 3.2 is like using Windows 3.1- far from it. Newer Squeaks have some features that may be required for your app- stuff from SqueakLand, traits, or some of the character/language support stuff. But for what most folks do, other than the obvious changes in look, a lot of folks wouldn't notice the difference very quickly.
Finding tablets under $1000 will pretty much limit you to PDA like devices like the Nokia N800 or possibly older used devices. But depending on your app, using Squeak 3.2 on a Nokia N800 might work out very well!
Regards, Aaron
Aaron Reichow wrote:
I do similar things that I do with my desktop- I use it for most of what I do, with the exception of web browsing. For my PDA, that means:
- Remote access via telnet and VNC
- Notetaking
What do you use to take notes?
- PIM stuff (there aren't any PIM apps that come installed on the Nokia
tablets, so that's handy!)
What PIM stuff do you use?
- Scripting of all kinds- like on the desktop, I like being able to
write little snippits of code to tell me stuff.
I'm sure I"m forgetting something... but yeah, there you go!
Regards, Aaron
On Jan 30, 2007, at 7:15 PM, Ivan Tomek wrote:
Speaking about applications, what do people typically do with Squeak on their portable devices?
Ivan
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Reichow Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:01 PM To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: Re: OLPC-like device...
On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Brad Fuller wrote:
To add to Aaron Reichow post:
Is the Nokia N800 too low in CPU power?
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.html http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/
-- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com
And too add more-
My brand spankin' new N800 gets this for tinyBenchmarks:
18,348,623 bytecodes/sec and 667,395 sends/sec
I definitely feel the difference between the 770 and the N800 in Squeak. Squeak 3.9 out of the box is still too slow to use, but the performance of 3.2 and 3.4 is quite snappy. For those who may not have used older versions of Squeak, or not have used them for a while, _please_ _note_ that those older versions aren't that much different. It's pretty easy to port code between versions of Squeak in the 3.x series. Some folks seem to think that using 3.2 is like using Windows 3.1- far from it. Newer Squeaks have some features that may be required for your app- stuff from SqueakLand, traits, or some of the character/language support stuff. But for what most folks do, other than the obvious changes in look, a lot of folks wouldn't notice the difference very quickly.
Finding tablets under $1000 will pretty much limit you to PDA like devices like the Nokia N800 or possibly older used devices. But depending on your app, using Squeak 3.2 on a Nokia N800 might work out very well!
Regards, Aaron
The answer for both questions - a few apps I've written myself, things that were meant to be for Dynapad, but lack the polish to really share them. Very, very rough, but you always love your own children, eh?
The other big thing I do on any mobile device is reading books, and a simple .txt ebook reader is something I've been meaning to do for Squeak for a long time...
Regards, Aaron
On Jan 31, 2007, at 12:28 AM, Brad Fuller wrote:
Aaron Reichow wrote:
I do similar things that I do with my desktop- I use it for most of what I do, with the exception of web browsing. For my PDA, that means:
- Remote access via telnet and VNC
- Notetaking
What do you use to take notes?
- PIM stuff (there aren't any PIM apps that come installed on the
Nokia tablets, so that's handy!)
What PIM stuff do you use?
- Scripting of all kinds- like on the desktop, I like being able to
write little snippits of code to tell me stuff.
I'm sure I"m forgetting something... but yeah, there you go!
Regards, Aaron
On Jan 30, 2007, at 7:15 PM, Ivan Tomek wrote:
Speaking about applications, what do people typically do with Squeak on their portable devices?
Ivan
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Reichow Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:01 PM To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: Re: OLPC-like device...
On Jan 30, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Brad Fuller wrote:
To add to Aaron Reichow post:
Is the Nokia N800 too low in CPU power?
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9981902594.html http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet- unboxed/
-- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com
And too add more-
My brand spankin' new N800 gets this for tinyBenchmarks:
18,348,623 bytecodes/sec and 667,395 sends/sec
I definitely feel the difference between the 770 and the N800 in Squeak. Squeak 3.9 out of the box is still too slow to use, but the performance of 3.2 and 3.4 is quite snappy. For those who may not have used older versions of Squeak, or not have used them for a while, _please_ _note_ that those older versions aren't that much different. It's pretty easy to port code between versions of Squeak in the 3.x series. Some folks seem to think that using 3.2 is like using Windows 3.1- far from it. Newer Squeaks have some features that may be required for your app- stuff from SqueakLand, traits, or some of the character/language support stuff. But for what most folks do, other than the obvious changes in look, a lot of folks wouldn't notice the difference very quickly.
Finding tablets under $1000 will pretty much limit you to PDA like devices like the Nokia N800 or possibly older used devices. But depending on your app, using Squeak 3.2 on a Nokia N800 might work out very well!
Regards, Aaron
-- brad fuller www.bradfuller.com
Aaron Reichow wrote:
I definitely feel the difference between the 770 and the N800 in Squeak. Squeak 3.9 out of the box is still too slow to use, but the performance of 3.2 and 3.4 is quite snappy.
I think the main differences can be explained by the following threads:
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-October/110506.h... http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2006-November/111315....
Generally, 3.9 should be slightly faster than the above mentioned versions just because some effort went into optimizing some bits and pieces of Morphic display. Unfortunately, the above two can easily overshadow any improvements that have been made in the meantime.
Cheers, - Andreas
Blake-
The Nokia 770/N800 sounds like it'd fit the bill- except for the toughness. It isn't especially breakable, but it is only as tough as most PDAs and tablets are. I think you could toughen it up with a little work and thought, however.
And, naturally, it runs Squeak w/ Morphic pretty well. You get character recognition free with Squeak via Genie, or you can use what is built-in, which isn't as good as Squeak's Genie.
Regards, Aaron
On Jan 30, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Blake wrote:
Hey, Squeakers:
I'm looking to put together an appliance and the OLPC device is probably closest (perhaps with some tablet PCs) to what I envision.
I need a small, light, tough touch screen, no keyboard or mouse or hard-drive, but a wireless connection and maybe some flash memory.
And, obviously, it has to be Smalltalk-capable. :-)
Most of the interface will be on the level of fast food order taking--although, come to think of it, I probably need some handwriting-recognition functionality.
I know a lot of folks deal with unusual hardware here, anyone have any thoughts?
===Blake===
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:00:11 -0800, Aaron Reichow revaaron@bitquabit.com wrote:
Blake-
The Nokia 770/N800 sounds like it'd fit the bill- except for the toughness. It isn't especially breakable, but it is only as tough as most PDAs and tablets are. I think you could toughen it up with a little work and thought, however.
The N800 looks pretty good, but maybe too small. I may have to have several different styles, though. Thanks for the tip. That's a good start.
And, naturally, it runs Squeak w/ Morphic pretty well. You get character recognition free with Squeak via Genie, or you can use what is built-in, which isn't as good as Squeak's Genie.
Cool. Muchos gracias.
On 30-Jan-07, at 3:32 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
I need a small, light, tough touch screen, no keyboard or mouse or hard-drive, but a wireless connection and maybe some flash memory.
How about iPAQ rx4240?
Hmm, interesting looking device. 400MHz ARM920 would get you roughly 28M bc/s and maybe 2M sends/s A bit slow for morphic in recent versions but plausible.
What a lot of versions they make (or made).
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Do you like me for my brain or my baud?
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Aaron Reichow -
Andreas Raab -
Bert Freudenberg -
Blake -
Brad Fuller -
Ivan Tomek -
tim Rowledge -
Yoshiki Ohshima