Squeak-dev May 2001

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

143 participants
597 discussions

Re: Squeak .debs in progress and available for download/testing.
by Bruce ONeel 30 May '01

30 May '01

Great, up on the st.cs.uiuc.edu ftp site. thanks! cheers bruce Stephen Stafford <stephen(a)clothcat.demon.co.uk> wrote: > On Friday 25 May 2001 2:07 am, Stephen Stafford wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Just me again...I have now packaged squeak 3.0 (building on the > > extremely good work of Marcus Denker...many thanks Marcus, there was > > very little that had to be changed) and I would appreciate if, before > > I go about ITPing and uploading, a few people could grab them, > > install and test to make sure they work. I have made them available > > on: > > > > http://people.debian.org/~bagpuss/squeak-debs/ > > > > these are built on an i386 machine, so for the VM at least, if you do > > not have an i386 based architecture, you would need to grab the > > source package from: > > > > http://people.debian.org/~bagpuss/squeak-source-packages/ > > > > You then would build these by doing: > > > > dpkg-source -x squeak-vm_3.0.0pre2-1.dsc > > cd squeak-vm-3.0.0pre2-1 > > dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot > > cd .. > > dpkg -i squeak-vm_3.0.0pre2-1_($arch).deb > > > > You need to be root for only the last step of this (the actual > > installation of the built .deb). It is reccomended that you build > > the package as a non-root unpriveleged user (that is what the call to > > fakeroot is for). You would also need to have the > > "task-debian-devel" package installed for this to work. It is > > possible (not actually very sure, I have not tested this extensively) > > that dpkg might complain that the .deb is not properly signed. If > > this happens then contact me and I will do my very best to help you > > get around this. > > I would be pleased to hear from anyone who is building on an > > architecture other than i386. That is the only architecture I have > > access to a build environment on, so it would be good to have it > > tested on others. > > > > Note: this is not necessary for the squeak-image or the > > squeak-sources packages. They are architecture independent. > > > > Note: The main squeak-vm .deb is built on an unstable debian system. > > It is possible that you may have glibc and libc++ dependency problems > > on a potato (2.2rX) based system (anyone running testing/woody should > > be okay). Therefore I have also created a potato version, it is the > > same as the other, but has been built on a potato system. It is the > > one (not surprisingly) with potato in the filename. I have not been > > able to test this on a potato system since the only access I have to > > a potato build environment is via ssh console, so I hope it works > > (fingers crossed :) > > > > At this stage (and in fact always, at every stage) I am happy to hear > > from anyone who has ideas, bugs, complaints, suggestions, anything. > > Feedback is the most important thing to me right now. I know that it > > works for me on my system (which is a development system with pretty > > much every library you care to mention installed). I now need to > > know if it works as happily on everyone else's system. [With just > > one small caveat, I am only on a 56k modem link...if you want/need to > > send me large files (anything over ~100k is large) then *please* > > email me first to let me know that you will be doing so, and wait for > > me to reply and acknowledge that I know it is coming. That way I can > > make sure that I get it during a time when I am not paying by the > > minute for access.] > > > > My email addresses for any/all of these comments/feedback are: > > > > stephen(a)clothcat.demon.co.uk > > bagpuss(a)debian.org > > > > Or you can send to the list squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu which I am subscribed > > to and do read. > > > > I envisage that it will be a couple of weeks at least before I am > > happy enough with the packaging fine detail to actually upload and > > install it in the archive. It should get to Debian testing (woody) > > shortly after that (usually about 10 days, all things being equal). > > It will unfortunately never manage to make it into official potato. > > For those of you with potato systems you can either use Marcus' > > excellent .debs or mine (I will probably try to always have a potato > > built version available, at least until woody is released) or grab > > the debianised source from the archive and build your own .debs. > > > > Thank you all for any time/effort you are able to give to making sure > > that this packaging is working well. > > Quick update. > > The packages which were availabe previously at: > http://people.debian.org/~bagpuss > have been rebuilt. Hopefully this takes care of the segfaulting issue > and they should be far more stable. > > I plan to upload them to the main archive sometime around > Friday/Saturday assuming no other nasty problems are found. > > I have not had time to rebuild a potato .deb yet, anyone wishing to try > the package on a potato system will have to go through the process for > building one as outlined above. Any problems with doing this you can > drop me a line and I will try to help guide you through if it is needed. > > -- > Stephen Stafford > GPG public key on request

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RE: consolidating squeak web presence
by Bert Freudenberg 30 May '01

30 May '01

On Wed, 30 May 2001, Stephen Pair wrote: > > If you do this, not only every Swiki access would be slowed down (because > > it's tunneled through squeak.org's Apache) but also the IP of a page > > editor couldn't be recorded anymore, as all requests would seem to come > > from squeak.org. > > This is not true...if Apache returns an HTTP redirect response, The original posting suggested an Apache "rewrite" rule, not "redirect", which effectively makes Apache work as a proxy. -- Bert

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newbie question about morphs
by Rosemary Michelle Simpson 30 May '01

30 May '01

The world I am creating is a spatial hypermedia environment called ConceptLab that provides multiple POVs and multi-dimensional views over the same set of objects, on the screen at the same time. For example, a Person instance can be simultaneously part of an Institution instance, a Paper instance, a Project instance, and a Concept instance, as well as being itself, a Person instance, and all of these can be on the screen at the same time. This is true for all ConceptLab objects. In addition, a given instance can contain multiple pointers to another specific instance at different levels. For example, "Catherine Marshall" (a Person instance) can appear multiple times at several levels as part of the "Spatial Hypertext" Concept instance. If I understand correctly what seems to be true about composite morphs - that a given morph can be embedded in one and only one composite morph - then I cannot use Morphic to model my world and must instead work with MVC. Is this correct? Thanks, R.

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Re: newbie question about morphs
by Bob Arning 30 May '01

30 May '01

Hi Rosemary, On Wed, 30 May 2001 13:16:11 -0400 (EDT) Rosemary Michelle Simpson <rms(a)cs.brown.edu> wrote: >In addition, a given instance can contain multiple pointers to another >specific instance at different levels. For example, "Catherine >Marshall" (a Person instance) can appear multiple times at several >levels as part of the "Spatial Hypertext" Concept instance. > >If I understand correctly what seems to be true about composite >morphs - that a given morph can be embedded in one and only one >composite morph True. - then I cannot use Morphic to model my world >and must instead work with MVC. Is this correct? False. The distinction you want to draw is between something that can exist only once, like "Catherine Marshall" (a Person instance) and things related to Catherine that look like Catherine and appear many places at once. It's the old model-view distinction and, while MVC has "model" and "view" in its name, Morphic is equally capable in handling this distinction. So, - you have a single Person named "Catherine Marshall" - each place Catherine needs to be visible on the screen, you say something like institutionMorph addMorph: (PersonMorph for: (Person named: 'Catherine Marshall)) or projectMorph addMorph: (PersonMorph for: (Person named: 'Catherine Marshall)) or papersMorph addMorph: (PersonMorph for: (Person named: 'Catherine Marshall)) In the end, you will have one Person and several PersonMorphs. Each of the PersonMorphs will draw the necessary data from the single Person to do its job and if there is any interaction with one of those morphs (to update her c.v., e.g.), that interaction will be directed back to the Person so that all views (PersonMorphs) will know about the changes. Cheers, Bob

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PhD position where you can use Smalltalk ;)
by Stephane Ducasse 30 May '01

30 May '01

Hi all we have a position available for working on components, objects, reengineering, reflection..... The candidate could work with any language language this means that Smalltalk is possible (not like in certain groups). If you are interested contacted me extremely fast because we have already a candidate. Stef -- Stephane DUCASSE (ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch) http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/ "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes

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RE: consolidating squeak web presence
by Noel J. Bergman 30 May '01

30 May '01

> Making swiki.squeak.org pointing to the physical IP address of the swiki > machine is the the only real solution. Only if the path from the server to the swiki is the same, in which case I believe that you could simply place place: swiki CNAME minnow.cc.gatech.edu. in the zone file defining squeak.org. Note: that means that http://swiki.squeak.org would be the same as http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu. The proposed rewrite rule: swiki.squeak.org/* -> minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/* indiates the the desired mapping was to go directly to the Squeak SWIKI instead of the list of Swikis maintained on minnow. Personally, I think that the DNS solution is perfectly useful, and I don't see anything wrong with http://swiki.squeak.org/squeak/ for the Squeak Swiki. Going to swiki.squeak.org would point to all of the Swiki's maintained on the Swiki server. > I don't think that running everything on one server is > necessarily the best solution. No need for that at all. --- Noel

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(no subject)
by reic0024＠d.umn.edu 30 May '01

30 May '01

Hello everyone, Short question: Does Smalltalk have a way to break out of a block like "break" does in C? Long question: I'm reading in/parsing some not-always-nicely formed data files (as a part of my undergrad research at the NRRI [http://www.nrri.umn.edu/cwe/]). Below is a block of code to handle some of these little uglys that pop up now and then in the datasets. "ditch anything we don't need, and put in things like elevation and pipeup into params" contents do: [ :coll | 1 to: (coll size) do: [ :i | ((coll at: i) beginsWith: 'ice:') ifTrue: [ coll at: i put: (((coll at: i) findTokens: 'ice:') first) ]. ((coll at: i) beginsWith: ':ELEVATION:') ifTrue: [ coll removeAt: i. params at: #elevation put: (((coll at: i) findTokens: ':ELEVATION:') first) ]. ((coll at: i) beginsWith: ':PIPEUP:') ifTrue: [ coll removeAt: i. params at: #pipeup put: (((coll at: i) findTokens: ':PIPEUP:') first) ]]]. (contents is a Dictionary filled with strings associated with OrderedCollections) Not the nicest looking code, I know. :P Let's say that a value with ":ELEVATION:" is found, and the element at i is removed. Of course, it runs into a problem accessing this when it looks for ":PIPEUP:". In C, in ":ELEVATION:"'s ifTrue block, we'd just say break; to skip the rest of the stuff in the block. I know I could add some silly variable and another ifTrue, but I am (always) looking for the better way to do things... regards and thanks in advance! Aaron

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Re: Meshwork vs. Hierarchy in SqF
by John Briggs 30 May '01

30 May '01

On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 09:59:49PM -0400, Paul Fernhout wrote: > Gary- > > Very perceptive point on hierarchies. (And that raises a valid concern > about any organized foundation interacting with a community). > > Manuel de Landa in his book "1000 Years of Non-linear History" > talks about the interrelation of meshworks and hierarchies. These can > overlap each other, as you might have hierarchies as elements of a > meshwork, or you might have informal meshwork links within a hierarchy. > > You seem to celebrate the meshwork aspect of Squeak and open-source / > free software. Me too! (Despite what might otherwise appear by my > involvement on the SqF list.) Paul thank you for your previous thought provoking articles. I for one have had to pause a while to digest fully the meaning of and the points you were making in these articles. I too agree with the concepts of the meshwork aspect of Squeak and open source/ free software. We do have this in place with the developers' community. In my opion this should not be the only aspect of the SqF. I consider the one purposes of the SqF would be to consolidate the different aspects of the Squeak community (SqC, StSq, developers) under one umbrella organisation to collaborate with them and to provide a central focal point for external parties. Whether this requires funding in any way I do not know, but I feel if we become incorporated into a non-profit organisation we may have to raise sufficient funds to accomodate the needs of a co-ordinating body of people for them to do the necessary work. Keep up your postings they are always thought provoking and relevant, which is what we need at this stage in our developement. Regards John Briggs

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Re: web application frameworks in Squeak?
by John Hinsley 30 May '01

30 May '01

Cees de Groot wrote: > Look at Squeak Web Server (URL don't remember, but if you look for it and land > in Austria (.at) you've found it :-)). Found it: http://macos.tuwien.ac.at/Squeak/webServer.html Cees, what a hero you are: all that and jet lagged too! I'll see how far I get with it over the weekend. Incidentally, doing a Google search for "Squeak Web Server" also throws up a page by Mark Guzdial on Squeak Web Servers (no.....!) which folk may find interesting (I downloaded it, but forgot to bookmark, so lost the URL). Thanks again Cheers John -- ****************************************************************************** Marx: "Why do Anarchists only drink herbal tea?" Proudhon: "Because all proper tea is theft." ******************************************************************************

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Re: consolidating squeak web presence
by Russell Allen 30 May '01

30 May '01

AFAIK, it shouldn't be necessary to move the minnow swiki from the machine it is on to make it reply to swiki.squeak.org. swiki.squeak.org already appears to point to the squeak.org machine at 207.71.8.55. All that is really required is to use apache rewrite rules to map swiki.squeak.org/* -> minnow.gatech.edu/squeak/*. All this should require is the editing of the apache.conf file and a 'apachectrl graceful' to restart. :) Russell Simon Michael <simon(a)joyful.com> wrote: > (webmaster(a)squeak.org bounced, and I think it's no harm to cc this on > the squeak list) > > Earlier today, I wrote: > > Dear squeak swiki & squeak.org webmasters, > > > > the squeak wiki has done long service at minnow.cc.gatech.edu. I think > > there is some consensus that the time has now come to locate it within > > the squeak.org domain, eg as swiki.squeak.org. See my comments below > > for a little context. > > > > Do you agree, are you available to help, any ideas on how to make this > > happen ? We don't know if it requires a physical move or can be done > > virtually. > > > > Thanks, > > -Simon > > > > PS the squeak foundation list archives are at > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation > > > > > > "Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus" <schwa(a)cc.gatech.edu> writes: > >> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 07:27:15PM -0700, Simon Michael wrote: > >> > Andreas - yes. Just a little more prevarication from me: ok, where can > >> > I help plant this stake in the ground.. which leads us back to.. > >> > > >> > ..the squeak wiki. IMHO this is the optimal place for constructing > >> > these lists, because (a) they probably partially exist there already > >> > and (b) ease of linking to more detail. Two problems - > >> > > >> > 1. <poke, prod> with no disrespect intended, the current admin(s) are > >> > not delivering uptime. 9 outages so far this month, including some of > >> > more than a day (according to > >> > http://uptime.arsdigita.com/uptime/reports.tcl?monitor_id=119512 ). I > >> > know "there'll be a server upgrade next week". But in any case, > >> > >> Don't worry. There'll be a server upgrade next week ;-) > >> > >> Them's the breaks with running a research lab within a large bureaucratic > >> organization; we can't order the machines directly to us. This isn't > >> something that urgently needs to be solved immediately, and it isn't > >> something that we can speed up. Just hang tight for a little bit. > >> > >> > 2. the wiki is at some strange url, neither squeak.org, > >> > squeakfoundation.org, nor squeakland.org. This dilutes squeak's web > >> > presence. > >> > >> I think that this is a very good point. What the heck is > >> minnow.cc.gatech.edu anyway? However, this is a historical accident > >> as a result of the fact that the Squeak Swiki started off as an > >> experiment back in the (relative) infancy of Swiki. If you think > >> that it is important enough to address immediately, the author and > >> current maintainer is Je77 Rick. You can contact him at > >> nadja(a)cc.gatech.edu; I'm sure he'll be glad to talk to you about > >> the possibility of moving the Swiki out of .gatech.edu. > >> > >> Tell him Schwa sent you ;-) > >> > >> > True, this doesn't actually prevent me from building Andreas' lists > >> > but I only have 15 minutes and I'd like to see it solved. I'd prefer a > >> > single, stable, canonical community wiki. I'm tempted to propose > >> > doing the simplest thing that could possibly work: mirror it on > >> > squeakfoundation.org and forget minnow. > >> > > >> > Minnow admin(s) are you on this list ? Comments anyone ? > >> > >> Oops, didn't read this far. AFAIK, I'm the only GaTech Squeaker on > >> this list. But Je77's contact information is above. > >> > >> Joshua > >> > >> > Best regards - Simon > > > > > > Simon Michael <simon(a)joyful.com> writes: > >> Paul Fernhout <pdfernhout(a)kurtz-fernhout.com> writes: > >> > With the exception of the mini-faq, one question to think about is why > >> > haven't these consolidation and organization projects happened already? > >> > >> Excellent question. I can speak for myself: > >> > >> > There are also several Wikis where this sort of effort could be > >> > happening > >> > >> you've hit the nail on the head :). > >> > >> In other words: each time I've entered the squeak community (maybe > >> three times over the last 3-4 years) I (a) came to the conclusion the > >> sorts of things you describe are where I can best help and (b) looked > >> at the web presence and fora for documentation and got scared away by > >> the feeling of shifting sands and multiplicity. No-one wants to spend > >> time on documentation that may or may found. > >> > >> You can make a case that I allowed myself to be scared off from hard > >> work too easily.. but my point is that this has probably happened with > >> plenty of other potential contributors. We want the threshold for > >> contribution to approach zero. Hence my last post. > >> > >> -Simon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Squeakfoundation mailing list > > Squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation ---------------------------------------------------------------- Russell Allen - russell.allen(a)firebirdmedia.com http://www.squeakspace.com Tools for the Squeak Community ----------------------------------------------------------------

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