Squeak-dev February 2007

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161 participants
240 discussions

Adult Etoys reply re : Cleaning up morphic
by Jerome Peace 06 Feb '07

06 Feb '07

Cleaning up morphic Hi James, You mentioned that cleaning up morphic would take a tremendous effort. Thats only true it you are talking about doing the entire task at once. The individual repairs are quite within the realm of reasonable effort. While it can't be fixed all at once it can be constantly improved. I've showed that with curves and my other repairs. The great difficulty is dealing with impatience. The temptation to try to "fix" things by taking big steps rather than lots of small incremental adjustments. Yours in service, --Jerome Peace ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

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Which plugins for OSProcess?
by bryce＠kampjes.demon.co.uk 06 Feb '07

06 Feb '07

I'm have some problems getting OSProcess 4.3 to run reliably, I'm using a VM with AioPlugin 2.0 and OSProcessPlugin 4.0.1. These are the latest versions availible via SqueakMap. Most of my testing was done in my standard development image built on the Squeak 3.9 developer image using an Exupery VM. Exupery was loaded but not running. I'm trying to get Exupery's stress test to pass which runs almost all the tests in the image 3 times. Up until now the OSProcess tests have been useful for flushing out context switching bugs. Any idea how to build a VM with OSProcess that will run 3.9 images reliably? With both AioPlugin and OSProcessPlugin installed running: OSPipeTestCase buildSuite run May lock up the image consuming 100% CPU. This only happens when AioPlugin has been built and installed. It doesn't always happen. Cannot find new threads: generic error ioFindExternalFunctionIn(primitiveGetThreadID, 0x80a4e88): /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/build/UnixOSProcessPlugin/.libs/UnixOSProcessPlugin: undefined symbol: primitiveGetThreadID ioFindExternalFunctionIn(primitiveTestEndOfFileFlag, 0x80a4e88): /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/build/UnixOSProcessPlugin/.libs/UnixOSProcessPlugin: undefined symbol: primitiveTestEndOfFileFlag ioFindExternalFunctionIn(primitiveTestEndOfFileFlag, 0x80a4e88): /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/build/UnixOSProcessPlugin/.libs/UnixOSProcessPlugin: undefined symbol: primitiveTestEndOfFileFlag Hitting Alt-. sometimes locks up the image after bringing up a notifier. When the image has locked up interrupting with gdb shows: (gdb) p printCallStack () 1715565776 >idleProcess 1715534844 [] in >startUp 1715534936 [] in BlockContext>newProcess $5 = 10 (gdb) where #0 0xffffe405 in __kernel_vsyscall () #1 0xf7f0d08d in select () from /lib/libc.so.6 #2 0x0806ab6c in aioPoll (microSeconds=96000) at /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/platforms/unix/vm/aio.c:226 #3 0xf7e51743 in display_ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds ( microSeconds=96000) at /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/platforms/unix/vm-display-X11/sqUnixX11.c:2304 #4 0x080523fc in ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds (us=1000) at /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/platforms/unix/vm/sqUnixMain.c:477 #5 0x0805be14 in primitiveRelinquishProcessor () at gnu-interp.c:19142 #6 0x080535f7 in dispatchFunctionPointer (aFunctionPointer=0x805bde0) at gnu-interp.c:4093 #7 0x08066c57 in interpret () at gnu-interp.c:9080 #8 0x08052019 in main (argc=256, argv=0x0, envp=0x0) at /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/platforms/unix/vm/sqUnixMain.c:1390 Running: 300 timesRepeat: [CommandShellTestCase run: #testPipeline73] Causes the image to lock up consuming 0% CPU. This happens even when AioPlugin isn't loaded and I've reproduced it in a clean 3.9 image with just OSProcess loaded running the latest Linux VM from squeak.org. My Squeak images normally idle consuming a few percent CPU due to polling. Cannot find new threads: generic error ioFindExternalFunctionIn(primitiveGetThreadID, 0x80a4e88): /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/build/UnixOSProcessPlugin/.libs/UnixOSProcessPlugin: undefined symbol: primitiveGetThreadID 0xffffe405 in __kernel_vsyscall () (gdb) where #0 0xffffe405 in __kernel_vsyscall () #1 0xf7e39143 in read () from /lib/libc.so.6 #2 0xf7deb658 in _IO_file_read () from /lib/libc.so.6 #3 0xf7dec83a in _IO_file_underflow () from /lib/libc.so.6 #4 0xf7dee3cd in __underflow () from /lib/libc.so.6 #5 0xf7deb15b in _IO_file_seek () from /lib/libc.so.6 #6 0xf7decfa8 in _IO_sgetn () from /lib/libc.so.6 #7 0xf7de19f0 in fread () from /lib/libc.so.6 #8 0xf7bb2787 in sqFileReadIntoAt (f=0x66412590, count=1, byteArrayIndex=0x66412814 "", startIndex=0) at /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/platforms/Cross/plugins/FilePlugin/sqFilePluginBasicPrims.c:247 #9 0xf7bb12a4 in primitiveFileRead () at /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/src/plugins/FilePlugin/FilePlugin.c:641 #10 0x080535f7 in dispatchFunctionPointer (aFunctionPointer=0xf7bb1160) at gnu-interp.c:4093 #11 0x0805c315 in primitiveExternalCall () at gnu-interp.c:15540 #12 0x080535f7 in dispatchFunctionPointer (aFunctionPointer=0x805c240) at gnu-interp.c:4093 #13 0x08066c57 in interpret () at gnu-interp.c:9080 #14 0x08052019 in main (argc=0, argv=0x0, envp=0x0) at /home/bryce/squeak/exuperyNew/platforms/unix/vm/sqUnixMain.c:1390 (gdb) p printCallStack () 1715621928 StandardFileStream>basicNext 1715621836 StandardFileStream>next 1715622132 [] in OSPipe>next 1715621628 BlockContext>on:do: 1715621536 OSPipe>next 1715622040 [] in OSPipe>next: 1715621444 Interval>do: 1715621352 OSPipe>next: 1715621720 [] in OSPipe>upToEnd 1715621236 BlockContext>repeat 1715621144 OSPipe>upToEnd 1715620776 [] in PipeableEvaluator>? 1715620636 PipeableEvaluator>blockValue 1715620868 [] in PipeableEvaluator>value 1715620960 [] in PipeableEvaluator>handleRuntimeErrorFor: 1715620524 BlockContext>on:do: 1715620432 PipeableEvaluator>handleRuntimeErrorFor: 1715565264 PipeableEvaluator>value 1715550668 CommandShell>pipeProxy:toCommandList: 1715423904 CommandShell>pipeline: 1715423788 CommandShellTestCase>testPipeline73 Here it looks like the primitive is blocking waiting for input that doesn't come even though it looks to me like it's blocking on a non-blocking file. Bryce

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What would it LOOK like? (from Adult E-toys last paragraphs).
by Jerome Peace 06 Feb '07

06 Feb '07

What would it LOOK like? (from Adult E-toys last paragraphs). Hi James, These sound like good idea's. What would your lists look like? (Before and After and maybe During?) What would the book (and its pages) look like? Why don't you see how much you can mock up the way these would look. (Just assemble morphs etc. ) to give a visual impression of what it would look like. Lots can be done just in morphic with the direct manipulation of things and without any programming. Get a clearer specification. Then write about it and maybe attach some of the pictures to the email. Snapshots don't actually have to behave they just have to look like they might. Yours in service, --Jerome Peace >One way in which this type of environment could be useful to the layperson >(and I have many more ideas which I'll save for a later date) would be the >types of things that people generally use (and abuse) spreadsheets for. >For example, if we had a list that we could pull from a flap and then could >produce a tile that sums all the elements or have a 'collect' tile that >could be used to make a little script to add 15% to the values and populate >a new list... These morphs (or tweaks) could be embedded into a bookmorph >(booktweak?) and easily presented in an attractive manner. One could even >use the animation capabilities that etoys already has to create motivational >aids - a small drawing of an athlete who will reach the finishing line at >the other side of the screen if the numbers add up right (those numbers >could be your weight, the money you've earned, the amount of cigarettes >you've smoked..) >Anyway, I'm sure a lot of you have thought about the dynabook and about >adult etoys and fantasised about what it could do. I just worry, maybe >unjustly so that squeak is being developed by such competent programmers >that the needs or wants of people like me who aren't programmers or maybe >have it as a hobby gets overlooked. I think that an adult etoys environment >would be the killer app (environment or whatever you would call it) for >squeak. >Many thanks to all of you for such an amazing piece of software, >James ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com

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Moving bug tracker
by Michael Rueger 06 Feb '07

06 Feb '07

Hi all, in about a week we will split the bug database at bugs.impara.de. We are planning to keep all public squeak and croquet projects together and move the new database to bugs.impara.de/squeak. This will enable us to move the squeak part of the data base to the squeak foundation server at any time. If the croquet bug tracking should be moved to a duke server, now would be a good time, but we are happy to keep it with the squeak data base. Sophie will be moved to the sophieproject site. I will give another warning before the move and we will provide a jump page from the old location. Regards Michael

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Re: Making Squeak more accessible and used - reversing the trend
by Bill Schwab 06 Feb '07

06 Feb '07

Brad, The colossal misunderstanding of our time is the assumption that insight will work with people who are unmotivated to change. Communication does not depend on syntax, or eloquence, or rhetoric, or articulation but on the emotional context in which the message is being heard. People can only hear you when they are moving toward you, and they are not likely to when your words are pursuing them. Even the choicest words lose their power when they are used to overpower. Attitudes are the real figures of speech. (Edwin H. Friedman) More to the point, give the user what they want, though not necessarily the way they want it. Then gradually show them a better way. Bill Brad Fuller brad at bradfuller.com Mon Feb 5 23:01:59 UTC 2007 Yep, if you want to move beyond the status quo and provide tools that seem odd at first blush to users, it's going to be a tad tougher sell. as always: "It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries, who have the laws in their favor; and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experiences of it. Thus, it arises that on every opportunity for attacking the reformer, his opponents do so with the zeal of partisans, the others only defend him half-heartedly, so that between them he runs great danger." 1513 AD Machiavelli Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bills(a)anest4.anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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omnibrowser - actors
by Julian Daly 06 Feb '07

06 Feb '07

Hello all, Can anyone help? I need to add some actors to an simple omnibrowser file browser that I have created. How do I add an actor correctly? Thanks, Julian

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Adult etoys - My dear wish
by J F 05 Feb '07

05 Feb '07

Sorry if you've received this 3 times, it never seemed to appear on the list the first 2 tries... Hello all, I feel compelled to add my point of view due to recent discussions on this list; I have kept quiet for a long time as I'm not a professional programmer and haven't contributed code so my point of view doesn't hold much weight but I hope to be expressing a wish that other silent readers have - if not, I'll quietly go away and see what other solutions can do for me. First, some background: I was first introduced to computers as a child, on Apple ][ machines at my father's work, on which I learned to program in basic, making little games. I then progressed to a ZX81 at home and then a spectrum, all of which there was an easy route into programming. I then spent around 15 years without a computer and when I finally got a PC was horrified - I had a computer which (out of the box) I couldn't use to compute! I have since dirtied my hands with all sorts of programming languages and it took a long time before I stumbled over squeak. Squeak has been an amazing and enlightening adventure for me but I have never really used it. The thing that has kept me interested even though I don't use squeak (except to explore squeak itself) is Alan Kay's dynabook vision. This is how I'd like to use my computer (or even better, my pda.) Now in the next part of this mail I'm going to say all sorts of things that I'm sure many squeak developers will disagree with. I'm aware that squeak is being pulled in several directions simultaneously and everyone has their good reasons for doing so but I have to put my viewpoint across and deal with the flames. If any of this sounds blunt or naive, I'm sorry. There are many RAD ways of building native applications - wxPython, wxRuby, wxPerl... You get the idea. I'm sure wxGNUSmalltalk would be possible. For me, the beauty and the power of squeak is in the direct manipulation of objects. I would love to see Tweak in the main image. There is a lot of talk about cleaning up morphic and the huge effort it would require. Would it not be a better idea to spend that effort getting Tweak functional in the main image? I'm sure there are many ways that the etoys environment and tile scripting could be expanded upon to create more advanced programming possibilities for the non-expert like myself. One way in which this type of environment could be useful to the layperson (and I have many more ideas which I'll save for a later date) would be the types of things that people generally use (and abuse) spreadsheets for. For example, if we had a list that we could pull from a flap and then could produce a tile that sums all the elements or have a 'collect' tile that could be used to make a little script to add 15% to the values and populate a new list... These morphs (or tweaks) could be embedded into a bookmorph (booktweak?) and easily presented in an attractive manner. One could even use the animation capabilities that etoys already has to create motivational aids - a small drawing of an athlete who will reach the finishing line at the other side of the screen if the numbers add up right (those numbers could be your weight, the money you've earned, the amount of cigarettes you've smoked..) Anyway, I'm sure a lot of you have thought about the dynabook and about adult etoys and fantasised about what it could do. I just worry, maybe unjustly so that squeak is being developed by such competent programmers that the needs or wants of people like me who aren't programmers or maybe have it as a hobby gets overlooked. I think that adult etoys -- James Fenn - Guitarist www.jamesfenn.co.uk would be the killer app (environment or whatever you would call it) for squeak. Many thanks to all of you for such an amazing piece of software, James

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News Report for January 2007
by Giovanni Corriga 05 Feb '07

05 Feb '07

The purpose of the News team is to publish news regarding Squeak development and use. It aims to provide a service to the Squeak community, highlighting anything which the Squeak users may find interesting in The Weekly Squeak newszine. It will also try to promote Squeak outside its own community, by submitting articles and news items to mainstream websites such as Slashdot and OSNews. In the past three months I was very busy and couldn't work on the Weekly Squeak blog. Ron has continued writing articles and kept the website alive. The Weekly Squeak blog ( http://weeklysqueak.wordpress.com ) is now getting ~300 views per day, with peaks of more than 1000 views when some interesting articles are published. The RSS2 feed gets ~50 reads per day. In our best day ever, we got more than 2000 views and more than 200 feed consumers. Most important open issues: - we need more authors. If I or someone else can't post for a long time, the blog risks remaining silent for too long. Actions scheduled for February: - Publish at least one news item per day - Proceed with the categories reorganization that was discussed on the news mailing list - Look at Lukas Renggli's blog plugin for Pier as a possible successor to the current blog engine - Report on the 2007 SqF Board elections process. Long term actions: - coordinate with the new PR Team in order to produce articles to be sent to mainstream news sites. - move the blog to news.squeak.org The News team has a mailing list (news at lists.squeakfoundation.org, subscribe at http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/news ). Everyone can subscribe to the list, even if just for lurking, but new team members are always welcome ;) Giovanni

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Problem Getting Password Reminder from SqueakSource
by Kris Gybels 05 Feb '07

05 Feb '07

Hi all, I'm having some trouble retrieving a forgotten password from SqueakSource, after giving my initials it tells me: "554 : Relay access denied. Please contact the site-administrator." Can someone please fix? :) S!

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Candidate Deadline Feb 18th 2007
by Ron Teitelbaum 05 Feb '07

05 Feb '07

All, I had someone ask me this question so I thought I'd remind everyone about our candidate deadline. http://weeklysqueak.wordpress.com/2007/02/01/2007-squeak-board-elections-ann ounced/ If you are planning on running for the board you need to announce that fact to this list (squeak-dev) by Feb 18th 2007. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/squeak-dev >From memory, I know that Craig, Tim, and Bert are running again. I do not know about Cees, Yoshiki, and Marcus. I could be wrong about who has announced and who has not. If so please correct me. Now is the time to encourage people to run. Also remember you will need an account on Squeak People http://people.squeakfoundation.org/ with a certification of at least apprentice to vote. If you have questions please feel free to ask the list or send me an email. Thank you for your participation, Ron Teitelbaum Ron(a)USMedRec.com Squeak Elections Team Member

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