Spoon June 2007

spoon@lists.squeakfoundation.org

3 participants
4 discussions

How do I create a minimal memory?
by Trygve Reenskaug 06 Jul '07

06 Jul '07

Hi, I have just entered this list because I want to find out how I can use Spoon for my next BabyUML experiment. README: /Double-click the "spoon.bat" file. This will start the Spoon processor, which starts a local web server. /OK/ In the "naiad" folder are components for remote browsing and inspecting of the Spoon memory from a Squeak 3.9 system (they probably work with earlier systems as well). To use them, first start the Spoon system as described above. /OK /Then start the "naiad" application with the object memory of your choice. /Squeak3.9/naiad OK/ Then, file in "naiad.st", and load the "naiad.pr" project. /OK. Poject with violet playfield (nice :-) ) and a workspace. /"Hi; here are a few expressions to get you started with remote browsing." "Make sure you've filed in 'naiad.st' first." Smalltalk at: #ExampleWormholeServer put: (WormholeServer atPort: 9999). /Looks OK/ // / "/Make sure you've started the minimal memory first." ExampleWormholeServer connectToPort: 7777 atHostNamed: 'localhost'./ Fails. Executing the expression hangs with Wormhole>>peer being nil. The Spoon image is open in a window, but that window is empty and I cannot find any menus or command lines. *Perhaps I should start the /minimal memory/ first, but how?? * I'm not good at reading instructions, so I may have missed something. Any pointer will be welcome. Thanks --Trygve This is exciting! --Trygve -- Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver(a)ifi.uio.no Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver N-0378 Oslo Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27 Norway

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Problem starting Spoon
by Asselin Raymond 11 Jun '07

11 Jun '07

Hi Craig, I followed the instructions from the Spoon book to download it and try it. I’m on Mac OS X. Safari can’t open the page at <http://localhost:8090/3>... May be something’s missing in the automator script? Or the server is not started ? Any idea? Raymond

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hashing behaviors for the system archive
by Craig Latta 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

Hi all-- I'm working on the system archive for Spoon (see [1]). I'll be storing "records" in it which have suitable information for reconstructing past versions of classes and methods (e.g., the format of a class, or a method's instructions, amongst several other things). A common operation is looking up the record for a currently-installed class or method. I'd like for each class and method to be able to provide a key for looking up the corresponding record, effectively a hash (what I call a "storage hash"). I think it would be fine to use the identity hash of a method (along with the normal hash, for additional range, in 28-bit space via hashMultiply), since methods change identity completely from version to version. When you recompile the source for an existing method, the system makes a completely new compiled method, it doesn't modify the old one. However, a behavior's state can change in ways that result in a new version of the behavior as far as the archive is concerned, without changing the identity of the class object itself (e.g., changing class name). There are several such state changes, and some of the pieces of state can refer back to the class itself. Rather than have to perform an expensive and possibly circular storage hash calculation, I wonder if it would be reasonable to use the identity hashes of the class and its superclass, and just have the class change its own identity hash whenever one of those state changes occurs. It's easy enough to add a primitive to change the hash bits of an object to the next pseudo-random hash value. This brings me to the gazillionth recitation of the classic Smalltalk hacker's question: Will something bad happen if I do this? :) (The corollary is that I have indeed already done it and nothing bad seems to have happened *yet* :). Is there some part of the system I've overlooked that depends critically on the identity hashes of classes remaining consistent over some period of time, or can I feel free to swizzle the hash bits and then just rehash whatever hashed collections might be using them? thanks! -C [1] http://tinyurl.com/2zvv8o (lists.squeakfoundation.org) -- Craig Latta improvisational musical informaticist www.netjam.org Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

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re: the Spoon book
by Trygve Reenskaug 03 Jun '07

03 Jun '07

Craig, Your book looks great and I look forward to reading more of it. I also applaud your choice of target audience; the lay reader/user/programmer. Data processing is essentially simple, the complexity of current SW products are the results of poor development and probably also successful marketing strategies. I strongly applaud your aim at making a Smalltalk as Smalltalk should have been and hope to be able to add my two bits worth to your effort. Targeting the lay reader poses makes it hard to discuss the hard parts. I strongly believe that a new departure such as Spoon /must /be created on a solid foundation. For example in /chapter twenty-two: imprinting and modules./ Every object has a unique identity. A copy of the object can exist in a remote image. But then there are two distinct objects with the same identity, thus violating the fundamental rule. This rises a number of fundamental problems that need to be studied in depth, otherwise we may be building our edifice on shifting sand. Another concept that needs to be carefully studied is the notion of a /module/. I take it it is here a module of objects. There is the /Islands /in /Tweak/, but I find this unsatisfactory because it is not well defined IMO. Another comment. /chapter twenty-three: collaboration: /Documentation is a two-edged sword. It is hard to keep it synchronized with a rapidly changing program; it is hard to read and often hard to understand because it is terse and often uses an unfamiliar terminology. I aim at making the code itself more expressive so that it becomes more readable. Details: * The document should be dated. * estimated completion date: 1 June 2007 is somewhat unlikely * A few figures would have helped me. As it is its target audience are pure left-brainers. * PDF permits a live TOC, e.g., see http://folk.uio.no/trygver/2007/2007.07.30-RolesAndClasses.pdf I find this very helpful for navigating in large documents. ------------------- I hope to get a stable Spoon system up and running so that I can get on with my own work. I may have Spoon running now as an empty window, but I cannot communicate with it in any way. Cheers --Trygve -- Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver(a)ifi.uio.no Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver N-0378 Oslo Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27 Norway

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Spoon June 2007