Squeakfoundation June 2003

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30 participants
59 discussions

Deprecation problems?
by Michael Rueger 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

Hi all, first I must apologize that I'm totally and hopelessly behind in reading the mails on the lists. I couldn't find answers to the following questions, so please be kind if I just overlooked them. And I'm sending this to the foundation list because I think this is a harvesting issue... Why are a lot of the (browser, Undeclared references) query messages broken by the introduction of SystemNavigation (I'm using image 3.6a update 5247)? And why are there 9 implementors of #systemNavigation all over the system? (I guess that is what the class extension discussion was about, I read that much) And the deprecated call should allow you to proceed with the deprecated version until it is fixed and not just cut you off. Boy, we went down this road with modules, didn't we? Michael

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Test server (was: Re: [Squeakfoundation] Harvesting infrastrucure)
by Daniel Vainsencher 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

Maybe we can now think about setting up a simple test server, too. I think a good minimal setup would - Get the latest image/changes from the ftp site - Fire it up, passing it the next instructions as a parameter - So that it loads SUnit from SM - and the Test Suite, too - Runs them - Mails some simple rendering of the results (say, how many passed, and the names of tests that failed) to an address it gets as a parameter. This would allow a weekly cron job that tells us where we stand, and could form the basis for the tests becoming an important part of the release cycle. Daniel Marcus Denker <marcus(a)ira.uka.de> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 10:53:52AM +0100, goran.krampe(a)bluefish.se wrote: > > I also have root on the squeakfoundation.org server and have just added > > proper /etc/init.d/scripts so that SqueakMap autostarts etc. > > > Hey, now that is good: I need to do two things: > > 1) The wiki-mirror need to be removed from my account at the university. > squeakfoundation is the perfect place for that. This is a simple > cron-job, using httrack. > > 2) the CVS at sourceforge only allows ssh for developers, and pserver > is blocked by many firewalls. I'd like to set up a cron-job > to checkout the sources each night, and then build a .zip from > it. > > Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker marcus(a)ira.uka.de -- Squeak! http://squeak.de > > _______________________________________________ > Squeakfoundation mailing list > Squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation

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Harvesting infrastrucure (was: Don't kill Bert's workstation)
by Bert Freudenberg 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

(moved to foundation list because ... it belongs here) Am Donnerstag, 05.06.03 um 16:16 Uhr schrieb Brent Vukmer: > Cool. Would you be willing to eventually setup another "Bug Fixes > Archive Server" image, running on your box in parallel with the current > PWS-MailArchiveAction image and accessible from, say, > http://swiki.gsug.org/bugfixesarchive ? > > The BugFixArchive-Model framework has the beginnings of an API to > replace the PWS-MailArchive stuff -- at least from a back-end > perspective. Right now the 1.1 API provides an email-file-repository > directory with static email .txt files ( and subdirectories with > extracted attachments ). You could configure your Apache to just serve > up those static files without hitting Squeak at all. In principle, that is no problem. In practice, I probably will leave this place later this year, at which point this machine will go away, too. Swiki.gsug.org will be moved to another box, but I can not guarantee yet that the sqfixes archive will continue to work in its current form. So, in any case, it would be better if you implement this solution on the squeakfoundation server. > I don't have any interest in replacing the HTML-generation stuff, but > it > would be really helpful, for example, to be able to hit > http://swiki.gsug.org/bugfixesarchive/uids and just get text/plain > MIMEDocument with a descending-sort list of UIDs. By the way, Dainel, > that's why the "textDoc" method is in there -- I was looking to the > future. Please remember these are not UIDs, just a count from 1 to number-of-messages-in-archive. If something (someone?) (me??) messes up my mbox file, these numbers will change. Anyway, I've added this: http://swiki.gsug.org/sqfixes/last which gives you the number of the last message as plain text (same for sqbugs). I don't see the point in generating a list of descending numbers starting at 3375 - you can easily count yourself ;-) -- Bert

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RE: [Squeakfoundation] Harvesting infrastrucure
by Brent Vukmer 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

Hey Goran! Great news about you having root access. I'll chat with you soon about the the SM synch & persistence stuff. -----Original Message----- From: goran.krampe(a)bluefish.se [mailto:goran.krampe@bluefish.se] Sent: Fri 6/6/2003 5:53 AM To: Discussing the Squeak Foundation Cc: Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation] Harvesting infrastrucure Hi people! Doug Way <dway(a)riskmetrics.com> wrote: [SNIP] > I agree that we probably shouldn't rely on Bert's server long-term. > Brent's UI is quite nice, though, and maybe we could switch the back-end > to something else at some point. (Could be based on SqueakMap, > Monticello, or just a bunch of files on a server.) Unfortunately I'm I and Brian Rice are currently working on SM1.1. We are on the #squeak channel on IRC. The basic synch mechanism in SM could easily be used for some other model - and it also maintains a simple persistency mechanism on the server. I also have root on the squeakfoundation.org server and have just added proper /etc/init.d/scripts so that SqueakMap autostarts etc. All these things can be easily reused for Brent's tool if he is interested. I can gladly help out with advice etc. Just mail me or shout. regards, Göran _______________________________________________ Squeakfoundation mailing list Squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation

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Re: Test server (was: Re: [Squeakfoundation] Harvesting infrastrucure)
by Daniel Vainsencher 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

Markus Gaelli <gaelli(a)emergent.de> wrote: > Hi > > > Maybe we can now think about setting up a simple test server, too. > > > I already started to do something like that and plan to finish it > this weekend. Cool!! > Several questions: > > > I think a good minimal setup would > > - Get the latest image/changes from the ftp site > Shouldn't we use the update facility itself? This has two aspects. - I proposed something minimal. We can always add cool stuff later, but getting feedback as often as bruce generates an updated image is already a big improvement. - What we definitely want to avoid is working with a stale image because the initial release of an update was fubared. This has been known to happen. So using bruce's image line is better than creating another independent-always-updating image-line. > > - Fire it up, passing it the next instructions as a parameter > > - So that it loads SUnit from SM > > - and the Test Suite, too > Talked with Marcus, and he agreed that SUnit just could > be moved into the TestSuite, or at least automatically > loaded, if not present there. This doesn't matter to your project, but any investment in temporary hacks around the lack of dependencies in SM 1.0 is pretty much a waste of time, because SM 1.1 is coming, and will enable proper load scripts to be published on SM. So do the simplest thing that could possibly work. > > - Runs them > > - Mails some simple rendering of the results (say, how many passed, and > > the names of tests that failed) to an address it gets as a parameter. > Like to integrate that with BugFix-Archive also. We could concievably make it send "[BUG] IntegerSetTest>>addTest fails in image Squeak3.6 5674" type announcements to the list, but I think this would probably be too much traffic. OTOH, if we create a squeak-reports mailing list, as I proposed on the Harvesting Traffic thread, and point sqfixes to also read that, this would become quite feasible, and possibly useful. Again, this is a cool thing that could be added later, the important thing is to start getting the benefits of a running test server. Daniel

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Re: [Squeakfoundation]Deprecation problems?
by Daniel Vainsencher 06 Jun '03

06 Jun '03

Michael Rueger <m.rueger(a)acm.org> wrote: > And the deprecated call should allow you to proceed with the deprecated > version until it is fixed and not just cut you off. Yes. I had a vague bad feeling about the way we currently implemented deprecation, but you've made it crystal clear now! :-) > Why are a lot of the (browser, Undeclared references) query messages > broken by the introduction of SystemNavigation (I'm using image 3.6a > update 5247)? I think it's safe to say we don't have this deprecation thing down pat quite yet. This is something I think we'll need to resolve before this we enter gamma. I think deprecation was made resumable but I don't think all the deprecated calls were converted to delegate to SystemNavigator and friends. Though KCP have mentioned that they have fixed the deprecation in later change sets, I'm not sure whether they did this. Stef? > And why are there 9 implementors of #systemNavigation all > over the system? (I guess that is what the class extension discussion > was about, I read that much) Yup. > Boy, we went down > this road with modules, didn't we? Yup, and it's still a little bumpy. Daniel

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RE: [Squeakfoundation] Harvesting infrastrucure (was: Don't kill Bert's workstation)
by Brent Vukmer 05 Jun '03

05 Jun '03

> > Please remember these are not UIDs, just a count from 1 to > number-of-messages-in-archive. If something (someone?) (me??) > messes up > my mbox file, these numbers will change. > Right, I know they're not actually UIDs. And in the scenario I propose, I guess they *still* won't be UIDs -- the process will parse and export individual email .txt files, numbered in the order they're extracted. But there is no safeguard against a hiccup in the parsing process. Ideally someone should be able to download the mbox file from lists.squeakfoundation.org, parse it, and get the same output as my (theoretical) server. Anybody got suggestions for a good algorithm generating the UID? How about a hash just using the subject line and the date? > Anyway, I've added this: > > http://swiki.gsug.org/sqfixes/last > > which gives you the number of the last message as plain text (same for > sqbugs). I don't see the point in generating a list of descending > numbers starting at 3375 - you can easily count yourself ;-) Very cool! Thanks Bert. This is exactly what I want. It will speed up the "load updates" process significantly.

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RE: [Squeakfoundation] Harvesting infrastrucure (was: Don't kill Bert's workstation)
by Brent Vukmer 05 Jun '03

05 Jun '03

Good points, all of 'em. Especially the cheeky one about last number vs. the whole list. Yes, yes.. <cough> I could *say* that I already thought of that.. But who would believe me?

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Re: [KCP] is looking for reviewers
by Stephane Ducasse 03 Jun '03

03 Jun '03

Hi I send the email to the foundation because I think that my proposal at the end is important and will save us a lot of broken code and frustration. The beginning of the email is about how to deal with KCP produced in 3.5 that break at load time because of removed classes in 3.6. > When you say "produce new changesets", you mean you want to upgrade > your 3.4-based KCP changesets so that they work with the current > 3.6alpha-5247? Yes and I think that this is not the right way to do it because we always followed a add only stream. > >> What is your idea of an efficient way to do that? Somebody will have >> to do the dirty work so what is your point of view. > > The only thing I would suggest is using the ConflictChecker thingy, > which helps somewhat. Using it will not necessarily catch *all* > possible conflict problems, but it will catch the direct method > conflicts, which are probably 90% of the problems you would see. This > is typically "good enough", and then we can put it into the merged > changes into the update stream and let people find any remaining bugs. OK I will try to use it, but right now I'm the only one doing KCP so if I have to check too much nothing will happen. Sad but true. > > Let me know if you need any help using the ConflictChecker, or if you > have suggestions for improvements. > > Hopefully there are not a *large* number of conflicts that you will > see. Unfortunately, when we have KCP and MCP and other people making > large changes all at the same time, some conflicts are unavoidable. > But of course better factoring will reduce the probability of > conflicts in the future. > > The other issue that comes up is that these KCP/MCP changes often > require changes to be made in the packages which were recently removed > (SUnit, Celeste, etc.), and I'm not sure these packages are getting > updated properly right now... this is a more general problem. (Some > way to broadcast desired changes to the package owners might be > interesting.) May be the trick would be to have dummy classes for each removed packages (note that this implies that we have an object representing package which should not be that difficult and that we will have to have. The problem I see is that when a package changes and we do not know what are the classes of this package in the image then there is no way that we can identify where the changes should go) and then we load 3.5 fixes then we collect the changes related to each package and republish it. Now if we work only in 3.6 and do not care about removed stuff, we will create a lot of broken code. I have the impression that the easiest and safest solution would be to load **all** the removals in 3.6 (this means all the stuff you think should be in 3.6 full image) and always do the changes regarding this configuration, then the removal are removed. Because we are trying to do two things at the same times and we are too few. So let us know what you think about that. Stef > > - Doug > >

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Squeakfoundation June 2003