goran.krampe@bluefish.se wrote:
Stephane Ducasse ducasse@iam.unibe.ch wrote:
I'm against having a release on Friday.
Just look at the BugfixArchive: There's a lot of stuff pending, which really needs to be included. And my feeling is, that there's just not enough "new" stuff in 3.6 to allow a new release: Like 3.5, we'd get a "new release" nobody would use.
Agree as I mention in one of my early emails. 3.6 should be sexy in terms of new stuff/clean/improvements. Let us make it really sexy.
Hmmm. And then people - WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS WHEN THE 3.6 PLAN WAS POSTED???
Ahh, that is so right. And also - SO WHY DO YOU WAKE UP NOW, INSTEAD OF WAKING UP A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHEN WE FIRST SAID WHAT WASN'T GOING TO BE READY, AND START REVIEWING LIKE THERE'S NO TOMMORROW???
Ok, got that out of my system, phew. Sorry ;-)
BTW, I'm glad to see more people doing the BFAV thing, and advancing the process, but this doesn't clash with making a release in any way whatsoever. People can go on coding and reviewing and advancing Squeak right through beta and gamma - harvesters will simply have a slightly bigger pile when we enter 3.7 alpha.
Daniel
[WARNING: The virus "shouting to show I'm right" infected some emails]
I'm against having a release on Friday.
Just look at the BugfixArchive: There's a lot of stuff pending, which really needs to be included. And my feeling is, that there's just not enough "new" stuff in 3.6 to allow a new release: Like 3.5, we'd get a "new release" nobody would use.
Agree as I mention in one of my early emails. 3.6 should be sexy in terms of new stuff/clean/improvements. Let us make it really sexy.
Hmmm. And then people - WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS WHEN THE 3.6 PLAN WAS POSTED???
Ahh, that is so right. And also - SO WHY DO YOU WAKE UP NOW, INSTEAD OF WAKING UP A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHEN WE FIRST SAID WHAT WASN'T GOING TO BE READY, AND START REVIEWING LIKE THERE'S NO TOMMORROW???
Am I suscribed to the same list than you?
I'm reading email like the stef's one for weeks!
Ok, got that out of my system, phew. Sorry ;-)
The next time try a key labeled [BACKSPACE] after shouting instead of a simple "sorry" that doesn't help.
Try it! I used several times!
BTW, I'm glad to see more people doing the BFAV thing, and advancing the process, but this doesn't clash with making a release in any way whatsoever. People can go on coding and reviewing and advancing Squeak right through beta and gamma - harvesters will simply have a slightly bigger pile when we enter 3.7 alpha.
The point is so simple:
- Some of us don't share the direction that squeak-guides choose. That is, in fact, no direction at all. - Some of us simply don't want to acept that squeak is becoming the "next php/python/ruby/linux" instead of the environment where the ideas and concepts can be tried and evolved for the next 20 years. - Before trying a fork we decided to wait for the promises of tha new process. (It's include the SM11 configuration maps) - We're wasting our limited time in bureaucracy instead of just creating new stuff. - The process is showing it's not enough to fullfit the needs of everybody.
Did you awake now?
Daniel
Diego
diegogomezdeck@consultar.com wrote:
[WARNING: The virus "shouting to show I'm right" infected some emails]
I'm against having a release on Friday.
Just look at the BugfixArchive: There's a lot of stuff pending, which really needs to be included. And my feeling is, that there's just not enough "new" stuff in 3.6 to allow a new release: Like 3.5, we'd get a "new release" nobody would use.
Agree as I mention in one of my early emails. 3.6 should be sexy in terms of new stuff/clean/improvements. Let us make it really sexy.
Hmmm. And then people - WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS WHEN THE 3.6 PLAN WAS POSTED???
Ahh, that is so right. And also - SO WHY DO YOU WAKE UP NOW, INSTEAD OF WAKING UP A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHEN WE FIRST SAID WHAT WASN'T GOING TO BE READY, AND START REVIEWING LIKE THERE'S NO TOMMORROW???
Am I suscribed to the same list than you?
I'm reading email like the stef's one for weeks!
Ok, got that out of my system, phew. Sorry ;-)
The next time try a key labeled [BACKSPACE] after shouting instead of a simple "sorry" that doesn't help.
We all know that none of us are *really* angry. Let's drop it. Ok?
Try it! I used several times!
BTW, I'm glad to see more people doing the BFAV thing, and advancing the process, but this doesn't clash with making a release in any way whatsoever. People can go on coding and reviewing and advancing Squeak right through beta and gamma - harvesters will simply have a slightly bigger pile when we enter 3.7 alpha.
The point is so simple:
- Some of us don't share the direction that squeak-guides choose. That is,
in fact, no direction at all.
Don't agree. We have a direction.
- Some of us simply don't want to acept that squeak is becoming the "next
php/python/ruby/linux" instead of the environment where the ideas and concepts can be tried and evolved for the next 20 years.
Nobody has said that Squeak is going to become any one of those. In fact - the Guides today are generally very open for new stuff - none of the die-hard "keep Squeak as Smalltalk-80 forever" people are actually represented.
- Before trying a fork we decided to wait for the promises of tha new
process. (It's include the SM11 configuration maps)
Before trying a fork? Ok, news to me. But sure, lots of stuff happens outside of the list of course. SM11 load scripts are coming - and that is a promise. I just can't promise exactly when. But during the summer is a promise.
- We're wasting our limited time in bureaucracy instead of just creating
new stuff.
This is so very easy to say when you are sitting on the side. If you read the mission statement of the Guides (which I do hope you share the ideas of) you will see that our mission is NOT to simply "create new stuff". If we all did that everything would collapse. Somebody needs to plan, harvest, handle updates, feed the mailinglist etc. And build infrastructure like SM.
Diego, perhaps you should step in as a Guide instead of me? I am serious. We *did* say that the Guides should rotate, read http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/71
Sure - we didn't say how this rotation should work - and I *do* want to stay as a Guide, but in order to "cool things down" and if you all think this would avoid a fork of the community then I would be willing to do it.
- The process is showing it's not enough to fullfit the needs of everybody.
It will never do that. But I don't share your view that it is failing - in fact, I think it is looking brighter by the day.
regards, Göran
Daniel Vainsencher danielv@netvision.net.il wrote:
goran.krampe@bluefish.se wrote:
Stephane Ducasse ducasse@iam.unibe.ch wrote:
I'm against having a release on Friday.
Just look at the BugfixArchive: There's a lot of stuff pending, which really needs to be included. And my feeling is, that there's just not enough "new" stuff in 3.6 to allow a new release: Like 3.5, we'd get a "new release" nobody would use.
Agree as I mention in one of my early emails. 3.6 should be sexy in terms of new stuff/clean/improvements. Let us make it really sexy.
Hmmm. And then people - WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY THIS WHEN THE 3.6 PLAN WAS POSTED???
Ahh, that is so right. And also - SO WHY DO YOU WAKE UP NOW, INSTEAD OF WAKING UP A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHEN WE FIRST SAID WHAT WASN'T GOING TO BE READY, AND START REVIEWING LIKE THERE'S NO TOMMORROW???
Ok, got that out of my system, phew. Sorry ;-)
Hehe, nothing like a good shouting eh? :-) Just as long as we keep the good spirit up - I am not really angry with anyone - I just want the plan to "count" for something. We are after all trying to establish a healthy, regular process with 3 releases per year instead of 1.
I think we have done quite alright with 3.6 - and remember, we have a whole month of bugsquashing ahead of us - and believe me: The network rewrite, KCP/MCP and the full backlog of FIXes should keep us busy...
BTW, I'm glad to see more people doing the BFAV thing, and advancing the process, but this doesn't clash with making a release in any way whatsoever. People can go on coding and reviewing and advancing Squeak right through beta and gamma - harvesters will simply have a slightly bigger pile when we enter 3.7 alpha.
Right.
regards, Göran
squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Daniel Vainsencher -
diegogomezdeck＠consultar.com -
goran.krampe＠bluefish.se