I agree - The SqF Swiki seems to me to be a pretty natural place to stay.
I agree about roles/tasks smearing - some things make me itch to help move along (imag refactorings, Flow), I'm sure each of us has his, making the dividing lines shallow sounds like the way to make the most of it.
I don't mind driving the release discussions. Of course, most of the ideas won't be mine, so people - start thinking now about something (smallish) that needs to be done, and a proposal on how to get it started/done in 3.5.
One thing though - Scott is pushing 3.4 along quite nicely, but I think we should help more. When the updates were announced for Tuesday, I for one was date-fogged due to vacation and thought it was a weekend, and so "had plenty of time"... and missed it.
So, I think we should have someone tracking and doing preliminary testing any proposed updates more or less immediately. If someone has time to do this for 3.4, that's cool. If not, I can do that at weekend boundaries (eg - will test during weekends anything posted by Scott during the week).
Daniel
Doug Way dway@riskmetrics.com wrote:
goran.hultgren@bluefish.se wrote:
Hi fellow Guides!
I just refactored our SqF pages a bit ...
I also took the liberty of changing the "Current Foundation Projects" into listing the three projects that I think are the current "projects".
Sounds good. (Btw, I updated a few older pages myself, such as Modular Squeak Discussions, etc., just so they're not misleading. And this led me on a trail of updating some pages over on minnow too, such as the Modules page. Swiki cleanup often leads you around like that. :-) )
and added this btw:
"Currently we use the SqF swiki to keep some Swiki pages on what we do and how etc. Eventually this might move over to the main Squeak Swiki, we will see how things pan out."
I haven't thought much about this but perhaps we need to figure out "where to live" eventually. Perhaps SqF Swiki is fine. Or perhaps we should be at minnow. Or perhaps we should have something of our own. I don't know.
The SqF Swiki seems like a fine place for now, since it's more focused on Squeak community/organizational issues. (Perhaps if SqF gets going as a legal entity at some point, we may want to move, or maybe not.)
Further I separated the roles page into two. Daniel hasn't "confirmed" his role but whatever, the role bit didn't seem to land so well with you guys anyway. Feel free though to *change* the roles I outlined to something you like yourself and then confirm that. I am happy as long as I know what people DO.
Some comments on my listed role: Mostly it sounds fine. I could be the initial maintainer of the update stream, starting with 3.5alpha, similar to Scott's current role at SqC. Also, I can coordinate the evolution of the new harvesting/update framework. (Even if someone else such as Luciano works on the tool itself.)
I don't want this role to become *too* expansive, though. :-) There's already enough responsibility for me in the above two tasks. I wouldn't want people to think that I am in charge of deciding which larger items should go in 3.4, or 3.5, for example. That's for all of us to decide, with plenty of input from the community too. Actually, I think Daniel has done a good job so far of acting as a moderator for these decisions (see "3.4 Roadmap" etc. messages), so perhaps he could continue doing that.
Anyway, I guess I'm just saying that these roles have some overlap, they will need continuous refinement, and we should feel free to work on stuff outside of our roles. But it is good to have these basic roles in place just so that someone is responsible for getting certain things done.
- Doug
Squeakfoundation mailing list Squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
Daniel Vainsencher danielv@netvision.net.il wrote:
I agree - The SqF Swiki seems to me to be a pretty natural place to stay.
I agree about roles/tasks smearing - some things make me itch to help move along (imag refactorings, Flow), I'm sure each of us has his, making the dividing lines shallow sounds like the way to make the most of it.
I don't care what people are *doing* - we all scratch our itches - just as long as I know *which* Guide to *ask* about something!
IMHO there are a few roles that are very good to have filled - like if I would like to help out with breaking out an app - who do I ask for directions? By looking at the roletable I would know.
That does of course not mean that the person having that role is the *only* one doing work in that area - but that person at least *knows* what is going on.
Ok - this is the very, very *last* time I write about these roles. If you guys still think it was a bad idea then by all means - we should then *remove that page*. There is no point in having a page saying something that we don't agree on! I for one would of course think it's a pity that we can not explain to the community which one of us is "guiding" what...
Now shoot. (And don't come arguing that the roles I described should be in some other way - I have already asked for you to change them into whatever makes you happy)
And this time - if noone speaks up I will simply remove the darn page so that you all can just forget it and I can also forget it and stop getting frustrated...
I don't mind driving the release discussions. Of course, most of the ideas won't be mine, so people - start thinking now about something (smallish) that needs to be done, and a proposal on how to get it started/done in 3.5.
Good. (Then that would be nice to have as your role... Smack! [Hits myself on forehead] Right, shouldn't talk about that any more.)
One thing though - Scott is pushing 3.4 along quite nicely, but I think we should help more. When the updates were announced for Tuesday, I for one was date-fogged due to vacation and thought it was a weekend, and so "had plenty of time"... and missed it.
I try my best to help out by at least looking over the internal stream (diffing methods) whenever anything pops up. I will also move my SM development into that image so that I "exercise" it more.
regards, Göran
PS. Just saw that Alejandro posted a "removal" on the list. Might be good to suck up, or collect at SM or something.
PSS. Yes, a bit irritated. But... wait, wait... yep - smile is back on! :-)
goran.hultgren@bluefish.se is claimed by the authorities to have written:
That does of course not mean that the person having that role is the *only* one doing work in that area - but that person at least *knows* what is going on.
That is really the only important thing about these roles - which as a corollary means we need to educate people (with baseball bats if necceesary) to make sure that they let the guide(s) know when thet start to play in an area.
tim
we need to educate people (with baseball bats if necceesary)
Oh, no, please. That's too cruel.
A whip would serve as well.
Cheers,
PhiHo.
P.S: Besides, it sounds more hi tech, like in 'Chief Whip' ;-)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Rowledge" tim@sumeru.stanford.edu To: squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]Guides swiki pages and more
goran.hultgren@bluefish.se is claimed by the authorities to have written:
That does of course not mean that the person having that role is the *only* one doing work in that area - but that person at least *knows* what is going on.
That is really the only important thing about these roles - which as a corollary means we need to educate people (with baseball bats if necceesary) to make sure that they let the guide(s) know when thet start to play in an area.
tim
Tim Rowledge, tim@sumeru.stanford.edu, http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim This is very curious ... as if someone was eating the wrong sort of mushrooms when they invented this sort of thing
Squeakfoundation mailing list Squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation
goran.hultgren@bluefish.se wrote:
... Ok - this is the very, very *last* time I write about these roles. If you guys still think it was a bad idea then by all means - we should then *remove that page*. There is no point in having a page saying something that we don't agree on! I for one would of course think it's a pity that we can not explain to the community which one of us is "guiding" what...
Now shoot. (And don't come arguing that the roles I described should be in some other way - I have already asked for you to change them into whatever makes you happy)
I think the Guide Roles page is good to have and we should keep it.
I only wanted to clarify what it means to have a role. Probably I should add a bit of text at the beginning of the roles page about this. Ok, I just added it to the roles page... feel free to edit it as appropriate.
http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/73
I don't mind driving the release discussions. Of course, most of the ideas won't be mine, so people - start thinking now about something (smallish) that needs to be done, and a proposal on how to get it started/done in 3.5.
Good. (Then that would be nice to have as your role... Smack! [Hits myself on forehead] Right, shouldn't talk about that any more.)
Nah, don't worry, you can still talk about roles. :-)
One thing though - Scott is pushing 3.4 along quite nicely, but I think we should help more. When the updates were announced for Tuesday, I for one was date-fogged due to vacation and thought it was a weekend, and so "had plenty of time"... and missed it.
I try my best to help out by at least looking over the internal stream (diffing methods) whenever anything pops up. I will also move my SM development into that image so that I "exercise" it more.
I am also doing my development in the internal-stream image now, to exercise it. That's about it, though.
I was thinking earlier that I would create some harvesting tables (on the superswiki) for recently submitted important fixes for 3.4, but that doesn't sound like much fun. ;-) And it's probably not necessary, since there are relatively few recent ones that we would consider that haven't already been considered by Scott.
So, we could probably just discuss them on this list on an ad-hoc basis. I guess I could collect the few ones off the list and post them here in a message soon. (Then for 3.5alpha we'll have the improved harvesting process in place.)
- Doug
On Wednesday 27 November 2002 03:12 pm, Doug Way wrote:
So, we could probably just discuss them on this list on an ad-hoc basis. I guess I could collect the few ones off the list and post them here in a message soon. (Then for 3.5alpha we'll have the improved harvesting process in place.)
I would like some more eyes on the FileListFixes2-nk revamping that I did recently. Scott's looking at it, but it could stand some more scrutiny.
http://swiki.gsug.org:8080/sqfixes/2834.html
I'd also like to put in the little tweak that adds "browse model class" to the Morph debug menu, but it isn't important:
http://swiki.gsug.org:8080/sqfixes/2817.html
And I'd really like to put in the one little tweak to Morph that I had to make for Connectors -- especially after having a collision with the AdjacencyLayout stuff. It just adds a notification upon a morph being added to another morph. I'll look at it some more.
I've been working on improving the error handling on the SqueakMap loading, but didn't get an answer on whether it was possible to retry a block from an Exception defaultAction method. I can do it more simply, though, and just copy &edit the HTTP loading code for the SM purposes.
Or we could do something like check if the response is text/plain and starts with "error". Yuk.
Or we could just ignore that and let the various installers notice that they have the wrong data, which they do (indirectly) already.
squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Daniel Vainsencher -
Doug Way -
goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se -
Ned Konz -
PhiHo Hoang -
Tim Rowledge