cg@home.cdegroot.com (Cees de Groot) wrote:
Given the fact that you're asking the SqF for resources, whazzisgottado with Squeak, except from being inspired by it and stuff? I'm all in favor of handing out mailing lists etcetera to anyone who does things that are interesting (you might, for example, ask Cees de Groot instead of SqF), but I'm not sure that your project is aligned with the stated goal of the SqF, and therefore whether it is justifiable to burden future SqF administrators with this project.
What does the rest of the list think?
Ok, a few simple personal points:
1. If SqF want's to be a good "buddy" with other projects that in some way touch upon Squeak then fine. But that would probably be something that SqF needs to declare openly as an intent. Of course, hosting a mailinglist is a small thing after all, so personally I am ok with it.
2. If Cees (in person) would like to be a good buddy then hey! Go ahead! :-)
3. If SqF for some reason thinks that this might be a project that Squeak can benefit from then I would like to remind you that GPL isn't "compatible" with SqueakL which means that "base Squeak" can not incorporate any code coming out from such a project into the Squeak image.
I did not read Paul's postings in full detail so I might have missed something about his licensing strategy. But I think he clearly stated that he wanted to be able to "raid" both GPL and BSD based sources which would place "Bellesqueak" in GPL land without possibility of dual licensing (correct me if I am wrong).
Do note though that this doesn't mean that applications written in a GPLd tool normally (depends on linking, and yes, given an image model like in Squeak an app might very well not be able to be GPLd) needs to be under GPL themselves.
Well, just a few thoughts.
And finally with a cherry smiley on top - there are too many words in these postings... Paul? Code talks. ;-)
regards, Göran
PS <CSOTD>"How to open up a workspace with text from a file (silly how long it took me to get this right):" (Workspace new contents: ((FileStream oldFileNamed: 'ws.txt') contentsOfEntireFile)) openLabel: 'My workspace' </CSOTD> DS
goran.hultgren@bluefish.se wrote:
And finally with a cherry smiley on top - there are too many words in these postings... Paul? Code talks. ;-)
I agree with the sentiment.
However, essentially, what I am writing with the charter is code -- code for the operation of a social process. Wouldn't suprise me if it (the charter) was buggy or missed some requirements -- as code is likely to do the first few times around.
Yes, the license incompatability of GPL with Squeak-L is an issue.
Actually, the more I think about this, the more I come around to seeing that what I should develop first is more a tool to manage these licensing issues -- sort of a code repository and configuration management tool that is license aware (think of it warning about loading code with a license incompatible to code already loaded...). Because if people (like Tim in a previous post) want to say their code or email posts are public domain or whatever, they should have a chance to for their part, even if the rest of the application was for example contaminated by GPL code, and the system should record that. Then I can use that system to build up a new version of Squeak with an arbitrary license by picking subsets of the entire codebase and knowledgebase.
-Paul Fernhout Kurtz-Fernhout Software ========================================================= Developers of custom software and educational simulations Creators of the Garden with Insight(TM) garden simulator http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com
--On Monday, January 28, 2002 10:27 AM +0100 goran.hultgren@bluefish.se wrote:
Ok, a few simple personal points:
- If SqF want's to be a good "buddy"
Agreed.
- If Cees (in person) would like to be a good buddy then hey! Go ahead!
:-)
He's *my* good buddy :)
- If SqF for some reason thinks that this might be a project that
Squeak can benefit from then I would like to remind you that GPL isn't "compatible" with SqueakL which means that "base Squeak" can not incorporate any code coming out from such a project into the Squeak image.
This isn't true. They could dual licence. Since Paul seems intent on getting clear title (or clear licencing) to incorporated code, there will already be a mechanism for interacting with authors.
I did not read Paul's postings in full detail so I might have missed something about his licensing strategy. But I think he clearly stated that he wanted to be able to "raid" both GPL and BSD based sources which would place "Bellesqueak" in GPL land without possibility of dual licensing (correct me if I am wrong).
Raided GPL code would need to go back to the original authors for relicencing to get put in normal Squeak. Hmm. Only if you wanted to distribute it? There's no problem is you just want to load it up in your own image. [snip]
<CSOTD>"OK, I'm finalling doing one of these. This uses ImageSegments to help figure out memory consumption of your objects:"
String streamContents: [:strm | (ImageSegment new copyFromRootsForExport: Browser allInstances) printSpaceAnalysisOn: strm] </CSOTD>
Cheers, Bijan Parsia.
goran.hultgren@bluefish.se said:
- If SqF want's to be a good "buddy" with other projects that in some
way touch upon Squeak then fine. But that would probably be something that SqF needs to declare openly as an intent. Of course, hosting a mailinglist is a small thing after all, so personally I am ok with it.
There are two aspects here: the SqF goal is stated quite broadly (go read the Swiki), so IMOHO being a good buddy would fit in without explicitely requiring a statement of intent. Second, the reason I'm firing up this discussion is to try to define the (necessarily fuzzy) border between 'clearly SqF' (a core distribution) and 'clearly not SqF' (hosting VisualBasic business app projects).
- If Cees (in person) would like to be a good buddy then hey! Go ahead!
:-)
I have this strong urge to be nice...
- If SqF for some reason thinks that this might be a project that
Squeak can benefit from then I would like to remind you that GPL isn't "compatible" with SqueakL which means that "base Squeak" can not incorporate any code coming out from such a project into the Squeak image.
CSOTD: self sleep.
squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Bijan Parsia -
cg＠home.cdegroot.com -
goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se -
Paul Fernhout