UI November 2007

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15 participants
42 discussions

Re: [UI] Compiler messages
by Bill Schwab 12 Nov '07

12 Nov '07

Tim, Ok, then what do we do? Distribute it as a group development, or try for inclusion in the mainstream? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 11/11/07 3:44 PM >>> On 11-Nov-07, at 12:10 PM, Colin Putney wrote: >> > > I don't have any advice about that, but I would like to suggest > this: please, please don't continue the tradition of having the > parser interact with the user directly by opening menus and what > not. This is a horrifying design that has given me much grief with > OmniBrowser. I'd say this is one of those places where exceptions have a clear and valuable role. When there is an unknown variable, instead of using something like varname isUnknown ifTrue:[(PopUpMenu query:'is this a temp or cancel compile') ifTrue:[self addTempNamed: varname] ifFalse:[^self buggered]] try something a bit more like varname isUnknown ifTrue:[CompilerUnknownVariableName informWith: varname forCompiler: self] Then the interactive user of the compiler can handle the exception via a menu or a nice dialogue or even an acually *nice* UI, and the non- interactive user can handle it silently. A lint-like user could let the compile proceed whilst logging the infraction, for example. Or preferably by applying a significant voltage to the shiny stainless steel mouse buttons.... tim -- tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim USER ERROR: replace user and press any key to continue. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Compiler messages
by Bill Schwab 12 Nov '07

12 Nov '07

+1??? I'd go further than that ;) Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 11/11/07 4:44 PM >>> +1. There is way too much user interaction code buried down in the model classes. On Nov 11, 2007 9:10 PM, Colin Putney <cputney(a)wiresong.ca> wrote: > > On 11-Nov-07, at 6:37 AM, Bill Schwab wrote: > > > I will gladly give it a shot. What is the best way to distribute it? > > Ideally, it should be part of the mainstream release so that the > > changes > > will be maintained, but it might be easier to make it part of our > > group's output. What do you think? > > > > Which version of Squeak would you recommend as a starting point? > > I don't have any advice about that, but I would like to suggest this: > please, please don't continue the tradition of having the parser > interact with the user directly by opening menus and what not. This is > a horrifying design that has given me much grief with OmniBrowser. > > Colin > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Compiler messages
by Bill Schwab 11 Nov '07

11 Nov '07

Hello all, I am trying to get something done, so I thought it might be a good time to insist on Squeak on Linux. Is there any way to gag the compiler messages that mess with me (in SERIES!!!!) about the unused variable names (I will need them as soon as I enter the debugger to start the real work) and confirming the method name that is not (YET) defined? The checks would be great, if not modal. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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chang tab font in a flap ?
by work open 08 Nov '07

08 Nov '07

anyone help me, pls, how to chang tab font in a flap ? tks. tonyliu.

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Re: [UI] UI Enhancements
by Bill Schwab 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

Jason, You can join the Dolphin Shelter movement. To be blunt, I am not encouraged by the financial will demonstrated to date. I would like to think that would-be contributors are holding back in the hopes that tens and twenties will fly in via Pay Pal and a thermometer on a web site. I seriously hope they are correct, but very much doubt it. IMHO, we should be seeking around 50 people willing to shell out $5k or more to have "Dolphin for Life". Please join. Some new energy might be just what is needed. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 11/1/2007 2:57 PM >>> On 11/1/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > Note that if the Dolphin buyout succeeds, then it's not a problem. Is there a place to look at status of this? If not, do you know close it is to succeeding? _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] UI Enhancements
by Bill Schwab 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

Jason, I am not sure I would grant Morphic that lofty label of "hack" ;) That said, free, portable and Smalltalk in one sentence is hard to overlook. My main question is to see if we would get hurt by starting with "found" views rather than building an abstraction from the ground up. There's an idea: anybody want to tell us what a view should do? I hestitate to mention it, because it might distract from MVP, but we might want to look at Whitewater's Object Windows specification. I am not certain of the legal status, but it was a pretty good abstraction, IIRC. With that said, if I end up using Squeak for more than casual tasks, there WILL be an MVP framework I doubt one I would write could be open (too many Dolphin entanglements), but I note that I perhaps could write one and become the source side of a clean-room implementation. Just some random thoughts. I will have to approach this efficiently, seeking the most load on Squeak for the least work. If it is going to fall short, I owe it to all parties to discover that quickly. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 11/1/2007 3:02 PM >>> On 11/1/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > I suspect we should try to separate from morphic in the future, but not > for a first pass. Let us know if you think of any problems. Well, I certainly have my concerns about Morphic [1], but if there was a way to make it more Smalltalk'ish, then maybe it would be ok. How many ways are there to make a view? I certainly don't want to go the "generating code" route of nastiness of c# and friends. How is Interface Builder on Mac? I read today that it is a GUI builder with "no peers". I also read that it does it's work by letting the user build the GUI then "freezing" objects so that they are ready on startup....... ;-) [1] To me, from the little bit I have gleaned from digging around the image, it just feels like a bolt on. It looked like it was really nice in Self, but more hackish in Smalltalk. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] UI Enhancements
by Bill Schwab 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

Jason, I suspect we should try to separate from morphic in the future, but not for a first pass. Let us know if you think of any problems. Is there any interest in running on top of Pavel's minimal morphic image? Whatever you guys want to do is fine. I am looking to Pavel as a likely source of cleaner images, but there is no rush. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 11/01/07 12:37 AM >>> On 11/1/07, Jason Johnson <jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 11/1/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > Gary, > > > > Have we reached any consensus on MVP? I _think_ it can be done with > > morphs serving as views to start, and then break off into other > > directions if we chose, or find it necessary. > > I'm not sure. My vote is obviously for MVP. But who be able to work > on this? My plate is full for some time, and as you mentioned, you > can't work directly on it. I meant to add: I don't see any problem using Morphic for the view. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] UI Enhancements
by Bill Schwab 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

Jason, It is true that I would be a better guide than coder, because I know too much about Dolphin to write anything separate from it. Another possibility might be for me to code something for others to recode with help from me. IIRC, there are processes for doing this, so some digging is in order. Note that if the Dolphin buyout succeeds, then it's not a problem. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 11/01/07 12:37 AM >>> On 11/1/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Gary, > > Have we reached any consensus on MVP? I _think_ it can be done with > morphs serving as views to start, and then break off into other > directions if we chose, or find it necessary. I'm not sure. My vote is obviously for MVP. But who be able to work on this? My plate is full for some time, and as you mentioned, you can't work directly on it. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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UI Enhancements
by Gary Chambers 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

Some expeimental stuff on SqueakSource, version 254. Was about time for a "Watery" theme, given Squeak's roots... Work in progress, is useable (given the framework). Will do a bit at a time, given spare time. Feedback always appreciated. Gary

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RE: [UI] [Slightly OT] Stability of Squeak
by Bill Schwab 01 Nov '07

01 Nov '07

Gary, That is very encouraging. I am starting to think that I need to begin tackling some basic porting problems. There is a long todo list, but one of my systems really needs to find its way onto Linux for torture testing. Would you recommend 3.9 or 3.10?? BTW, don't expect this to be an overnight effort. I have some preliminaries to consider, such as making the BibTeX system I might have mentioned a little more friendly, porting my time-stamp-based backup system to Squeak, and making it run correctly on Linux and Windows as a result, and so on. Bottom line: I need to begin to see if Squeak can handle the load. Thanks! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 10/31/07 11:07 PM >>> I've not noticed a particular increase in image size, myself. The semaphore fixes posted in the dev-list have worked wonders for the stability of our client's software... AFAIK they'll be put into 3.10 but must be installed manualy for 3.9. There was a post somewhre in the ui list about unrecoverable garbage. After my last respone there has been no feeback, however. Regards, Gary, > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab > Sent: 01 November 2007 2:31 AM > To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Subject: [UI] [Slightly OT] Stability of Squeak > > > Gang, > > Has there been a resolution of the (sorry if I am suffering from memory > corruption here) non-collectable garbage under Gary's enhancements? > Another thing that disturbed me was the Croquet group(???) threatening > to drop Squeak servers in favor of Java or similar. There were some > semaphore/delay/shared queue kinds of fixes. Did they make it into > Squeak? > > Please don't do my homework for me. I am hoping someone here happens to > remember the details. > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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UI November 2007