UI December 2007

ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org

3 participants
4 discussions

[Bug 6802] Bug with ScriptManager scrollbars
by Damien Cassou 08 Jan '08

08 Jan '08

Hi, I've just submitted a bug report: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6802 each time I generate a squeak-dev image with UI-Enhancements, a graphical bug appears in the ScriptManager. Attached is a screen shot. You can download an image and see by yourself: ftp://ftp.ofset.org/squeak/squeak-dev/beta/sq3.10-7159dev07.12.1.zip Bye -- Damien Cassou

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RE: [UI] More feel observations
by Bill Schwab 05 Dec '07

05 Dec '07

Gary, That would be great, though please leave out the activation, Windows Genuine Annoyance(TM), black screen of death, slow copies, etc. ;) It certainly is not a high priority, but would be appreciated. Thanks! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 12/5/2007 1:24:18 PM >>> I could do a "VistaryBasic" subclass, just like ms, lol! > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab > Sent: 05 December 2007 6:05 PM > To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Subject: RE: [UI] More feel observations > > > Gary, > > My v-key complaints are mostly limited to the numeric keypad, but I > _think_ it is a little broader than that. Indeed, the Windows VM does a > better job, even getting stuff like control-shift-arrow to work > properly, at least as far as I use them. Just so I do not sound like a > walking shortcut table, some of the weird sequences get exercised in > proportion to the editing task. I re-learn them in a hurry, when > appropriate. Home and end are staples. > > Vistary: I have been doing most of my Squeak hacking on a 1.8 GHz P4 w/ > 512MB, or so it claims. It is an older machine, and is becoming my bit > bucket, which Gnome finds a little taxing. A preference for > translucency might be nice. The truth is, even when the hardware is up > to it, I find the translucency a little distracting, especially on > walkbacks. > > > > (PluggableListMorph used to release > > the keyboard focus regardless!). > > Thanks for fixing that, and more. I will take another look at the > preferences. Maybe I have too much of a good thing in use?? > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 12/5/2007 6:09:51 AM >>> > Thanks for feedback, I'll make some comments... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill > Schwab > > Sent: 05 December 2007 2:11 AM > > To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > Subject: [UI] More feel observations > > > > > > Gary, > > > > I did some more "real" programming today (working on a port of my > > home-grown file backup system), and am starting to find that one of > my > > larger complaints (which I consider to be a sign of progress) is the > > apparent lack of support for virtual keys - the home and end in > > particular - in the unix VM. My searching so far has not turned up > > anything specifically useful, so I will probably submit a question > to > > Squeak-dev soon. > > Yes, virtual keys... my main gripe is lack of support for function > keys. > As for home/end what's the problem with those? Or do you mean just on > the > numeric keypad? (only just noticed now you mention it... ok in Windows > though :-) ). > > > > > Vistary, at least on my hardware, is slow enough that I can easily > type > > faster than it can keep up. Soft squeak is much harder to outrun on > the > > same hardware. Note that I still cannot fully clobber it due to the > > virtual key hassles. Part of my input speed comes from > > home/tab/past/space/etc/end, sometimes with shift depressed to make > > selections. Some of this stuff is so engrained I don't even realize I > do > > it until it doesn't work. > > Been a while since I noticed any keyboard lag from Squeak... > SoftSqueak is certainly the most responsive theme, more than > StandardSqueak. > Vistary, due to translucency, is only expected to work well on modern > hardware (is fine on my 1.73 GHz Centrino laptop). What's your > hardware? > > > > > One thing that is in our general area is mouse interaction. It will > be > > difficult to catch this in the act, but there is pretty clearly > > something to it. Have some code in plain sight; now try to > drag-select > > it, quickly. I get unpredictable results; sometimes it selects what > I > > want, usually it does not. When I have had similar problems in > other > > systems, it suggests that the code is picking up current mouse > > coordinates when it should be using event coordinates. > > Not noticed any problems like this... of course, a slower system might > highlight such issues. > > > Re #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus, it appears to be selectively > necessary. > > AFAICT, with other changes you have made, it is somewhat redundant. > The > > message name browser is horribly broken without it. A few times, I > have > > found that when adding methods, I get into a situation where the > input > > focus is undefined, or not where I want it anyway, making it > necessary > > to click in the code pane of the system browser. The weird thing is > > that in that situation, the cursor needs to be in the code pane for > it > > to get focus. I have #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus set to true. > > Best to set #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus to false when > #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus is enabled (see > PluggableTextMorph>>mouseLeave:). I'll probably rework that method > since it > is now the only sender of #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus > (PluggableListMorph > used to release the keyboard focus regardless!). Or, possibly, make > changes > to properly honour the #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus pref in the usual > morphs > (lists, text etc.). > > > > > Sorry for the incomplete observations and guesswork, but it is > hopefully > > better to write down what I can remember. > > > > Bill > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] More feel observations
by Bill Schwab 05 Dec '07

05 Dec '07

Gary, My v-key complaints are mostly limited to the numeric keypad, but I _think_ it is a little broader than that. Indeed, the Windows VM does a better job, even getting stuff like control-shift-arrow to work properly, at least as far as I use them. Just so I do not sound like a walking shortcut table, some of the weird sequences get exercised in proportion to the editing task. I re-learn them in a hurry, when appropriate. Home and end are staples. Vistary: I have been doing most of my Squeak hacking on a 1.8 GHz P4 w/ 512MB, or so it claims. It is an older machine, and is becoming my bit bucket, which Gnome finds a little taxing. A preference for translucency might be nice. The truth is, even when the hardware is up to it, I find the translucency a little distracting, especially on walkbacks. > (PluggableListMorph used to release > the keyboard focus regardless!). Thanks for fixing that, and more. I will take another look at the preferences. Maybe I have too much of a good thing in use?? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 12/5/2007 6:09:51 AM >>> Thanks for feedback, I'll make some comments... > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab > Sent: 05 December 2007 2:11 AM > To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Subject: [UI] More feel observations > > > Gary, > > I did some more "real" programming today (working on a port of my > home-grown file backup system), and am starting to find that one of my > larger complaints (which I consider to be a sign of progress) is the > apparent lack of support for virtual keys - the home and end in > particular - in the unix VM. My searching so far has not turned up > anything specifically useful, so I will probably submit a question to > Squeak-dev soon. Yes, virtual keys... my main gripe is lack of support for function keys. As for home/end what's the problem with those? Or do you mean just on the numeric keypad? (only just noticed now you mention it... ok in Windows though :-) ). > > Vistary, at least on my hardware, is slow enough that I can easily type > faster than it can keep up. Soft squeak is much harder to outrun on the > same hardware. Note that I still cannot fully clobber it due to the > virtual key hassles. Part of my input speed comes from > home/tab/past/space/etc/end, sometimes with shift depressed to make > selections. Some of this stuff is so engrained I don't even realize I do > it until it doesn't work. Been a while since I noticed any keyboard lag from Squeak... SoftSqueak is certainly the most responsive theme, more than StandardSqueak. Vistary, due to translucency, is only expected to work well on modern hardware (is fine on my 1.73 GHz Centrino laptop). What's your hardware? > > One thing that is in our general area is mouse interaction. It will be > difficult to catch this in the act, but there is pretty clearly > something to it. Have some code in plain sight; now try to drag-select > it, quickly. I get unpredictable results; sometimes it selects what I > want, usually it does not. When I have had similar problems in other > systems, it suggests that the code is picking up current mouse > coordinates when it should be using event coordinates. Not noticed any problems like this... of course, a slower system might highlight such issues. > Re #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus, it appears to be selectively necessary. > AFAICT, with other changes you have made, it is somewhat redundant. The > message name browser is horribly broken without it. A few times, I have > found that when adding methods, I get into a situation where the input > focus is undefined, or not where I want it anyway, making it necessary > to click in the code pane of the system browser. The weird thing is > that in that situation, the cursor needs to be in the code pane for it > to get focus. I have #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus set to true. Best to set #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus to false when #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus is enabled (see PluggableTextMorph>>mouseLeave:). I'll probably rework that method since it is now the only sender of #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus (PluggableListMorph used to release the keyboard focus regardless!). Or, possibly, make changes to properly honour the #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus pref in the usual morphs (lists, text etc.). > > Sorry for the incomplete observations and guesswork, but it is hopefully > better to write down what I can remember. > > Bill _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

2 1

More feel observations
by Bill Schwab 05 Dec '07

05 Dec '07

Gary, I did some more "real" programming today (working on a port of my home-grown file backup system), and am starting to find that one of my larger complaints (which I consider to be a sign of progress) is the apparent lack of support for virtual keys - the home and end in particular - in the unix VM. My searching so far has not turned up anything specifically useful, so I will probably submit a question to Squeak-dev soon. Vistary, at least on my hardware, is slow enough that I can easily type faster than it can keep up. Soft squeak is much harder to outrun on the same hardware. Note that I still cannot fully clobber it due to the virtual key hassles. Part of my input speed comes from home/tab/past/space/etc/end, sometimes with shift depressed to make selections. Some of this stuff is so engrained I don't even realize I do it until it doesn't work. One thing that is in our general area is mouse interaction. It will be difficult to catch this in the act, but there is pretty clearly something to it. Have some code in plain sight; now try to drag-select it, quickly. I get unpredictable results; sometimes it selects what I want, usually it does not. When I have had similar problems in other systems, it suggests that the code is picking up current mouse coordinates when it should be using event coordinates. Re #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus, it appears to be selectively necessary. AFAICT, with other changes you have made, it is somewhat redundant. The message name browser is horribly broken without it. A few times, I have found that when adding methods, I get into a situation where the input focus is undefined, or not where I want it anyway, making it necessary to click in the code pane of the system browser. The weird thing is that in that situation, the cursor needs to be in the code pane for it to get focus. I have #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus set to true. Sorry for the incomplete observations and guesswork, but it is hopefully better to write down what I can remember. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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UI December 2007