Gary,
That would be great, though please leave out the activation, Windows Genuine Annoyance(TM), black screen of death, slow copies, etc. ;) It certainly is not a high priority, but would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
gazzaguru2@btinternet.com 12/5/2007 1:24:18 PM >>>
I could do a "VistaryBasic" subclass, just like ms, lol!
-----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill
Schwab
Sent: 05 December 2007 6:05 PM To: ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] More feel observations
Gary,
My v-key complaints are mostly limited to the numeric keypad, but I _think_ it is a little broader than that. Indeed, the Windows VM
does a
better job, even getting stuff like control-shift-arrow to work properly, at least as far as I use them. Just so I do not sound like
a
walking shortcut table, some of the weird sequences get exercised in proportion to the editing task. I re-learn them in a hurry, when appropriate. Home and end are staples.
Vistary: I have been doing most of my Squeak hacking on a 1.8 GHz P4
w/
512MB, or so it claims. It is an older machine, and is becoming my
bit
bucket, which Gnome finds a little taxing. A preference for translucency might be nice. The truth is, even when the hardware is
up
to it, I find the translucency a little distracting, especially on walkbacks.
(PluggableListMorph used to release the keyboard focus regardless!).
Thanks for fixing that, and more. I will take another look at the preferences. Maybe I have too much of a good thing in use??
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
gazzaguru2@btinternet.com 12/5/2007 6:09:51 AM >>>
Thanks for feedback, I'll make some comments...
-----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill
Schwab
Sent: 05 December 2007 2:11 AM To: ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: [UI] More feel observations
Gary,
I did some more "real" programming today (working on a port of my home-grown file backup system), and am starting to find that one
of
my
larger complaints (which I consider to be a sign of progress) is
the
apparent lack of support for virtual keys - the home and end in particular - in the unix VM. My searching so far has not turned
up
anything specifically useful, so I will probably submit a question
to
Squeak-dev soon.
Yes, virtual keys... my main gripe is lack of support for function keys. As for home/end what's the problem with those? Or do you mean just
on
the numeric keypad? (only just noticed now you mention it... ok in
Windows
though :-) ).
Vistary, at least on my hardware, is slow enough that I can easily
type
faster than it can keep up. Soft squeak is much harder to outrun
on
the
same hardware. Note that I still cannot fully clobber it due to
the
virtual key hassles. Part of my input speed comes from home/tab/past/space/etc/end, sometimes with shift depressed to
make
selections. Some of this stuff is so engrained I don't even realize
I
do
it until it doesn't work.
Been a while since I noticed any keyboard lag from Squeak... SoftSqueak is certainly the most responsive theme, more than StandardSqueak. Vistary, due to translucency, is only expected to work well on
modern
hardware (is fine on my 1.73 GHz Centrino laptop). What's your hardware?
One thing that is in our general area is mouse interaction. It
will
be
difficult to catch this in the act, but there is pretty clearly something to it. Have some code in plain sight; now try to
drag-select
it, quickly. I get unpredictable results; sometimes it selects
what
I
want, usually it does not. When I have had similar problems in
other
systems, it suggests that the code is picking up current mouse coordinates when it should be using event coordinates.
Not noticed any problems like this... of course, a slower system
might
highlight such issues.
Re #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus, it appears to be selectively
necessary.
AFAICT, with other changes you have made, it is somewhat redundant.
The
message name browser is horribly broken without it. A few times,
I
have
found that when adding methods, I get into a situation where the
input
focus is undefined, or not where I want it anyway, making it
necessary
to click in the code pane of the system browser. The weird thing
is
that in that situation, the cursor needs to be in the code pane
for
it
to get focus. I have #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus set to true.
Best to set #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus to false when #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus is enabled (see PluggableTextMorph>>mouseLeave:). I'll probably rework that method since it is now the only sender of #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus (PluggableListMorph used to release the keyboard focus regardless!). Or, possibly, make changes to properly honour the #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus pref in the usual morphs (lists, text etc.).
Sorry for the incomplete observations and guesswork, but it is
hopefully
better to write down what I can remember.
Bill
UI mailing list UI@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui
_______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui
I'll follow ms lead for not having a kill switch :-) http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/04/1331246
Though, if you see your Squeak full of HeadMorphs I may have lapsed!
-----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 05 December 2007 8:00 PM To: ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] More feel observations
Gary,
That would be great, though please leave out the activation, Windows Genuine Annoyance(TM), black screen of death, slow copies, etc. ;) It certainly is not a high priority, but would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
gazzaguru2@btinternet.com 12/5/2007 1:24:18 PM >>>
I could do a "VistaryBasic" subclass, just like ms, lol!
-----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill
Schwab
Sent: 05 December 2007 6:05 PM To: ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] More feel observations
Gary,
My v-key complaints are mostly limited to the numeric keypad, but I _think_ it is a little broader than that. Indeed, the Windows VM
does a
better job, even getting stuff like control-shift-arrow to work properly, at least as far as I use them. Just so I do not sound like
a
walking shortcut table, some of the weird sequences get exercised in proportion to the editing task. I re-learn them in a hurry, when appropriate. Home and end are staples.
Vistary: I have been doing most of my Squeak hacking on a 1.8 GHz P4
w/
512MB, or so it claims. It is an older machine, and is becoming my
bit
bucket, which Gnome finds a little taxing. A preference for translucency might be nice. The truth is, even when the hardware is
up
to it, I find the translucency a little distracting, especially on walkbacks.
(PluggableListMorph used to release the keyboard focus regardless!).
Thanks for fixing that, and more. I will take another look at the preferences. Maybe I have too much of a good thing in use??
Bill
Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254
Email: bschwab@anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029
gazzaguru2@btinternet.com 12/5/2007 6:09:51 AM >>>
Thanks for feedback, I'll make some comments...
-----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill
Schwab
Sent: 05 December 2007 2:11 AM To: ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: [UI] More feel observations
Gary,
I did some more "real" programming today (working on a port of my home-grown file backup system), and am starting to find that one
of
my
larger complaints (which I consider to be a sign of progress) is
the
apparent lack of support for virtual keys - the home and end in particular - in the unix VM. My searching so far has not turned
up
anything specifically useful, so I will probably submit a question
to
Squeak-dev soon.
Yes, virtual keys... my main gripe is lack of support for function keys. As for home/end what's the problem with those? Or do you mean just
on
the numeric keypad? (only just noticed now you mention it... ok in
Windows
though :-) ).
Vistary, at least on my hardware, is slow enough that I can easily
type
faster than it can keep up. Soft squeak is much harder to outrun
on
the
same hardware. Note that I still cannot fully clobber it due to
the
virtual key hassles. Part of my input speed comes from home/tab/past/space/etc/end, sometimes with shift depressed to
make
selections. Some of this stuff is so engrained I don't even realize
I
do
it until it doesn't work.
Been a while since I noticed any keyboard lag from Squeak... SoftSqueak is certainly the most responsive theme, more than StandardSqueak. Vistary, due to translucency, is only expected to work well on
modern
hardware (is fine on my 1.73 GHz Centrino laptop). What's your hardware?
One thing that is in our general area is mouse interaction. It
will
be
difficult to catch this in the act, but there is pretty clearly something to it. Have some code in plain sight; now try to
drag-select
it, quickly. I get unpredictable results; sometimes it selects
what
I
want, usually it does not. When I have had similar problems in
other
systems, it suggests that the code is picking up current mouse coordinates when it should be using event coordinates.
Not noticed any problems like this... of course, a slower system
might
highlight such issues.
Re #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus, it appears to be selectively
necessary.
AFAICT, with other changes you have made, it is somewhat redundant.
The
message name browser is horribly broken without it. A few times,
I
have
found that when adding methods, I get into a situation where the
input
focus is undefined, or not where I want it anyway, making it
necessary
to click in the code pane of the system browser. The weird thing
is
that in that situation, the cursor needs to be in the code pane
for
it
to get focus. I have #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus set to true.
Best to set #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus to false when #mouseClickForKeyboardFocus is enabled (see PluggableTextMorph>>mouseLeave:). I'll probably rework that method since it is now the only sender of #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus (PluggableListMorph used to release the keyboard focus regardless!). Or, possibly, make changes to properly honour the #mouseOverForKeyboardFocus pref in the usual morphs (lists, text etc.).
Sorry for the incomplete observations and guesswork, but it is
hopefully
better to write down what I can remember.
Bill
UI mailing list UI@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui
UI mailing list UI@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui