UI

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251 discussions

How can targets better track the mouse?
by Jerome Peace 02 Sep '07

02 Sep '07

[UI] How can targets better track the mouse? Hi Bill, Thanks for your reply. *** >Bill Schwab BSchwab at anest.ufl.edu >Sun Sep 2 13:25:06 UTC 2007 > > >Jerome, > >Sounds reasonable to me, though I have never been a fan of the hand >anyway. I could be wrong, but it strikes me as something that was done >as a hack before halos were available, and then simply never removed. I >can hear the panicked call now: "the menu is stuck to the mouse!" :) > >Is there a way to hide the details of your changes in a policy? Hadnt got that far in my thinking. The more recent enhancements are all additions which someone would have to use before things work different. >Even if >it is only globally applied (e.g. DragPolicyInelastic beCurrent), it >would offer the option. What is gained from this? I am not a big fan of having multiple choices for interfaces. Usually a language (even one of gestures) is better off if everyone is on the same page and shares a good way of doing things commonly. Also as I go along with my fixes I have begun to realize that a general weighing of movement and position would give the most flexibility. Allowing the mouse to be interpreted according to need. For example when drawing slowing the mouse down can really improve the quality of the drawing, while for just pointing one just wants to get to where you are going quickly. >If you will forgive a little Dolphin bigotry, Surely, Ive had blinders on for just squeak stuff for years now. Good to be introduced to another way of looking at things. >this is something that MVP (interactors), and Dolphin specifically, >handles quite well. There is no hand because one simply instantiates >and connects an interactor (aka MouseTracker in Dolphin) to handle the >specifics for that one drag operation. The code can be re-used quite >easily, but the resulting flexibility is obvious the first time one >needs to do something weird with constraints. Hmmm. > >I created a generic MouseTrackerTarget class in Dolphin that you might >want to keep in mind if we ever take a run at MVP. Where would I look to find out how that worked? Better would be some Squeak port of the Class or code so that it could be used, adapted or adopted here. Thanks for your suggestions. Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace <snipped> ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

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Re: [UI] How can targets better track the mouse?
by Bill Schwab 02 Sep '07

02 Sep '07

Jerome, Sounds reasonable to me, though I have never been a fan of the hand anyway. I could be wrong, but it strikes me as something that was done as a hack before halos were available, and then simply never removed. I can hear the panicked call now: "the menu is stuck to the mouse!" :) Is there a way to hide the details of your changes in a policy? Even if it is only globally applied (e.g. DragPolicyInelastic beCurrent), it would offer the option. If you will forgive a little Dolphin bigotry, this is something that MVP (interactors), and Dolphin specifically, handles quite well. There is no hand because one simply instantiates and connects an interactor (aka MouseTracker in Dolphin) to handle the specifics for that one drag operation. The code can be re-used quite easily, but the resulting flexibility is obvious the first time one needs to do something weird with constraints. I created a generic MouseTrackerTarget class in Dolphin that you might want to keep in mind if we ever take a run at MVP. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> peace_the_dreamer(a)yahoo.com 09/02/07 1:42 AM >>> How can targets better track the mouse? I've been working on several squeak repairs that improve the feel of things. see: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6580 0006580: [FIX] {ENH] MouseMoveEvent>deltaVector now reports how much mouse moved. for explainations and code. Basically by paying more attention to the movement of the mouse and less attention the location of the hand things can be vastly improved. Yours in service and curiosity, --Jerome Peace ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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How can targets better track the mouse?
by Jerome Peace 02 Sep '07

02 Sep '07

How can targets better track the mouse? Ive been working on several squeak repairs that improve the feel of things. see: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6580 0006580: [FIX] {ENH] MouseMoveEvent>deltaVector now reports how much mouse moved. for explainations and code. Basically by paying more attention to the movement of the mouse and less attention the location of the hand things can be vastly improved. Yours in service and curiosity, --Jerome Peace ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222

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Re: [UI] What's next?
by Bill Schwab 02 Sep '07

02 Sep '07

Jason, It won't have the full effect until you change the preferences to use other than the standard Squeak theme. I recommend Soft Squeak; with the Vistary theme, I find myself struggling to read button text through the shadows. Warning: you might have some trouble closing windows after installing, so it is best to close all non-essential windows before installing. I would very much like for you observation about input focus to be true, but change the theme and try the basic controls example (class side of UITheme): even the disabled text field snatches the focus in my experience, and Gary confirmed that he had not addressed the behavior, unless he has already done it and/or I grabbed the wrong version?? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 09/01/07 6:09 PM >>> On 9/1/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Hello all, > > Do any of you have any regrets about installing Gary's packages? I am > tempted to load them into my working 3.9 image. Any reports of bad > experience would be appreciated. I just installed the package. The only thing I noticed that changed was the very cool task bar. I also noticed that all the windows I had open before the change had a straight line on the top left corner as if the rounding was having an error. New windows I opened after the change didn't have this. > I am tempted to vote in the affirmative on the latter, and > hope that we will go further by taming the mouse-over activation and > focus madness. After I installed the changes I noticed I *do not* have "follow the mouse" behavior anymore. It seems to be traditional windows behavior. Did someone change something? > Gary's work is yet another illustration that native widgets are not > necessary to achieve any particular look, and I am confident we can > illustrate the same re feel. I agree that native/host widgets are not needed. And I'm afraid it's going to be a speed hit in the common/semi-common case. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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What's next?
by Bill Schwab 02 Sep '07

02 Sep '07

Hello all, I was slammed for a couple of days and did not have much time to work through the universe problem I was having. Given that I can download them from http://www.squeaksource.com/UIEnhancements/ and install via the file list, I am fairly happy, unless there is a risk of getting stale files that way?? I just repeated the installation on my Ubuntu box, and there were no problems. Re previously open windows, I suspect that the #topWindow problems might be avoided by ensuring that only newly created windows are open at the time of changing the theme. For example, one can install the packages, open new workspace(s), copy text to them, open new browsers on existing methods of interest, close the old windows, then change the theme, and it seems to be fine. Do any of you have any regrets about installing Gary's packages? I am tempted to load them into my working 3.9 image. Any reports of bad experience would be appreciated. Without any implied lack of gratitude, the changes are thus far simply eye candy. I find the debugger's appearance to be particularly enhanced - which is appreciated because I see it so often :) As impressive and helpful as the changes are, I will stick to my long-standing assertion that Squeak's real GUI problems are feel related. Does this group want to tackle that problem? How? Do we want to adopt Gary's work as a foundation? I am tempted to vote in the affirmative on the latter, and hope that we will go further by taming the mouse-over activation and focus madness. Preferences are fine: I would not want to force convention on others any more than I want to subject my users to (what would appear to them as) random behavior as they move the mouse. Gary's work is yet another illustration that native widgets are not necessary to achieve any particular look, and I am confident we can illustrate the same re feel. My weakening opposition to native widgets has been based in the discipline they would bring: by handing the message loop over to a binary framework, Squeak would be almost forced to play nicely from then onward. However, there is something to be said for themed design all done in Smalltalk. I just need to be able to idiot proof it. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [UI] What's next?
by bradallenfuller＠yahoo.com 01 Sep '07

01 Sep '07

----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:48:34 AM Subject: [UI] What's next? > Do any of you have any regrets about installing Gary's packages? > I am tempted to load them into my working 3.9 image. > Any reports of bad experience would be appreciated. I haven't found a problem except the one I mentioned to Gary, and it must have been my fault, so no need to elaborate on my errs ;-) > Without any implied lack of gratitude, the changes are thus far simply > eye candy. perhaps, with the excepttion of the taskbar at the bottom, which may be helpful to some for auto-arranging the desktop. Gary's work is much appreciated and I can't wait until he finishes it! > As impressive and helpful as the changes are, I will stick to my long-standing assertion that Squeak's real GUI problems are feel related. I don't agree that it's exclusively feel related. There are many "look" issues as well. I contend that "look and feel" go hand-in-hand and maybe we should approach it this way? > Does this group want to tackle that problem? YES! > How? I still push the idea that we need guidelines first. But, i wanted to hear from more on this discussion topic before I said anything else (plus, I've been swamped too!) > Do we want to adopt Gary's work as a foundation? Foundation for what? > I am tempted to vote in the affirmative on the latter, and > hope that we will go further by taming the mouse-over activation and > focus madness. This could be easily remedied by first agreeing upon a keyboard focus rule(s) and then implementing the rule into the standard image (maybe for 3.10?.) With the rule in place, software authors will at least know what the rest of the community believes to be best practice. They can violate it if they want in their own apps, but at least it's stated. Maybe this could be our first project. > Preferences are fine: I would not want to force > convention on others any more than I want to subject my users to (what > would appear to them as) random behavior as they move the mouse. Preferences settings has been a long standing feature in Squeak. Frankly, I don't know how good it is. I like it, but there are some good arguments against this (see Raskin.) > Gary's work is yet another illustration that native widgets are not > necessary to achieve any particular look, and I am confident we can > illustrate the same re feel. Sorry, I always get confused on what "native" means. Does it mean native to the hosting OS, or native to Squeak? Maybe we should not use the word "native" and use "Host" or "OS" and "Squeak": e.g.: OS-widgets, Host-widgets; Squeak-widgets, Host-derived widgets -- ??? To comment on your comment, I believe that Squeak-derived widgets forces easy portability between hosts. brad

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A couple of noteworthy morphic projects
by karl 31 Aug '07

31 Aug '07

During the summer Jérôme Chauveau <http://www.squeaksource.com/@TYePbKFxMifYRsrI/WwBqrnCp?13>, a french student have made great progress on a html/css renderer/viewer. This project is at http://www.squeaksource.com/DomView.html Here is the project description: "This project consist in building a simple web page viewer able to display HTML/CSS contents. For example, a such tool will permit to display mails with HTML code and will be usefull for previewing pages during Seaside application development. The goal is not to build a browser - just a modern HTML/CSS renderer based on http://www.squeaksource.com/htmlcssparser" Another cool project is Skeleton: http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11 Project description: "Skeleton is a visual scripting environment as an extension of Squeak etoy <http://www.squeakland.org> with Connectors <http://nedkonz.dhs.org:8080/Ned/8> system to make mathematical and physical simulation for non professional computer user. Squeak etoy system is a unique attempt to provide effective way of programming for children in learning environment. Skeleton makes logical relationships among graphical objects in the etoy system with spreadsheets-style interface, and users can describe object’s behavior in declarative representation." Both these projects bring lots of new and exiting possibilities to Squeak. Karl

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Re: [UI] Widgets ready
by Bill Schwab 30 Aug '07

30 Aug '07

I think you are on to something, but that does not work because the 3.9 selector is not recognized. Maybe something in the 3.9 donwnload is not up to date?? Must go home - will be very mad at myself if I don't =:0 More later. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> tapplek(a)gmail.com 8/29/2007 6:35:51 PM >>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 07:29:23PM -0400, Bill Schwab wrote: > Gang, > > Remedial question: I am trying to do a clean install, and I can't get > the universe browser to work. I have downloaded the 3.9 zip file > (windows) from squeak.org, loaded YAXO (over loud notices that it is not > marked as compatible, but saw no other option), then loaded the > universes package. Launch the browser, then getting the list over the > net fails. > > What am I missing? You probably need to set the universe to load from. Try running: UUniverse switchSystemToUniverse: UUniverse squeak39Universe -- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/ Help improve Squeak Documentation: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/808 _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Widgets ready
by Bill Schwab 30 Aug '07

30 Aug '07

Gang, Remedial question: I am trying to do a clean install, and I can't get the universe browser to work. I have downloaded the 3.9 zip file (windows) from squeak.org, loaded YAXO (over loud notices that it is not marked as compatible, but saw no other option), then loaded the universes package. Launch the browser, then getting the list over the net fails. What am I missing? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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RE: [UI] Widgets ready
by Bill Schwab 30 Aug '07

30 Aug '07

Gary, Understood about 6. It would be nice to have control over it, but I am much less concerned about the IDE than what end users would see and have to use. How hard would it be to make the cursor movement controllable by preference? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 8/29/2007 2:33 PM >>> 6. The theming only applies to the text editor/entry morphs created via the theme, for compatability for the moment. As for 3., I've kind of got used to the focus-follows-mouse thing. It can be changed, but, as I said, it required (even more) invasive code into Morphic! Personally I'd be happy to do that, preference-based, of course... -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 29 August 2007 8:22 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] Widgets ready Gary, 1. Fair enough. 2. I don't think it's either, but who knows what I grabbed. The image is a working one from my Ubuntu box. 3. This one hurts. With that said, I am willing to work at making it work; it is one of my main hopes for this group. With much respect for what you have done and gratitude for your sharing it, and for releasing it for us to play with it<g>, tabbing is meaningless if a twitch pushes the mouse and snaps the cursor away. As I said, I will gladly help out if the group agrees that this is the right way to go. I need to look at the code some, but you are close to having my vote in that regard. 4. I'll grab another image and try again. 5. Very impressive. 6. Let me rephrase my dumb question: is #textEditorNormalFillStyleFor: the right place to try to change the workspace background color? Understood about the fill style - I am just wondering whether that is the right place to set it for the workspaces and code panes in browsers and the debugger. Thanks again!!!! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 8/29/2007 1:50 PM >>> One by one: 1. Probably best to close all uncecessary windows before installing. 2. Not tested on 3.10 or with OmniBrowser yet. 3. Input still follows mouse cursor, though tabbing works if mouse is still (future enhancement maybe that will change a lot of Morphic code). 4. #modalMorph see point 1. 5. Built on-the fly, just work quickly (I was astonished too). 6. Not sure what you mean about the "ledger" style. For the themes answer any valid fillstyle (Color, GradientFillStyle etc.) Hope this helps... -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 29 August 2007 7:35 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] Widgets ready Gary, Moniticello seems to have something personal against me (perhaps because I have never taken the time to figure it out). That didn't go well, but loading via the filelist seemed to work fine. I am getting some DNU walkbacks re #topWindow. System windows open prior to the upgrade are often unwilling to close (though the file list did??) and some things such as sender/implementors in the IDE will not open. Zurgle did some similar things IIRC, though I also recall being able to halo things out of existence there, but am not having luck with that here. At least in the basic controls example, I am finding the input focus follows the mouse cursor, and I thought I read that you had addressed that (or is there more I need to load or configure?). For example, after clicking in the text entry field, the focus gets stolen by simply mousing over the disabled text entry or various lists and maybe groups. I _think_ I have the image set to not do that kind of thing, at least not any more than usual. Is the behavior expected, or should I grab a new image? At least closing extant windows starts going bad in #promptForCancel and PSUIManager>>confirm:. In trying to learn about it, I chose Implementors of... in the debugger and got what appears to the same basic problem in #modalMorph. Semi-rhetorical question: how did you get the task bar previews to work so quickly? Are they cached, or do you build them on the fly? I am afraid that I must tear myself away for now. More later. Dumb question: one of the things I have long liked in Dolphin is the ledger color backgrounds in their editors. What would be the best place to make a change that would affect workspaces, code panes of the browsers and debugger, etc.? I found #textEditorNormalFillStyleFor:, but its complexity in the soft theme makes me wonder whether its the right thing - nothing looks like that would be required to render it?? Let's see, it was 20 minutes ago I was saying I needed to stop fiddling :) Thanks!! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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