Reflecting on this I have to say it's a bit late in the beta cycle to touch these things we never talked about before.

And Yoshiki's suggestion to put in DrGeo right after this release is probably wise, too. I could not reach Hilaire anyway, his email bounces.

- Bert -

On 04.09.2009, at 22:05, kharness@illinois.edu wrote:

Hi Tim, There are a number of the Help Guides that would no longer be accurate if you eliminate the Basic category. Kathleen

---- Original message ----

...

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:52:49 -0400 From: "teefal" etoys-dev-forum@squeakland.org Subject: [etoys-dev] Re: What about shipping DrGeo in Etoys? To: etoys-dev@squeakland.org

Here's a thought . . .

1. Get rid of "Basic" as a category

2. Put everything within it into Supply Bin, if it's

not there already, or Graphics

3. Make a new category called "Apps", where we'll

put standalone "microworlds"

4. Add DrGeo and Kedama to Apps

5. Possibly add everything in Games to Apps also,

and get rid of that category

6. Make the object catalog wide enough so categories

fit in one row

7. Add some padding around catalog items, so

categories like Connectors don't look so cluttered.

At Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:52:46 -0400, Timothy Falconer wrote:

Are these changes unsafe or time-consuming?

Did you read Kathleen's point? If we change the categories in object catalog, many guides will be out of date. In that sense, it is time-consuming to synch them with the given amount of time.

Could the talk happen in one meeting? (I thought the talk could happen by email too)

Although Bert wrote "we never talked about before", he didn't mean that once we "talk" about it everything around it becomes suddenly all clear.

As I've been saying on JIRA, we've been releasing some beta packages and trying to finalize release.

Some of these are basic tweaks (such as making the box wider).

The important ones are not basic tweaks.

-- Yoshiki

On Sep 7, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Timothy Falconer wrote:

On Sep 5, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: At Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:52:46 -0400,

...

Timothy Falconer wrote:

...

Are these changes unsafe or time-consuming?

Did you read Kathleen's point? If we change the categories in object catalog, many guides will be out of date. In that sense, it is time-consuming to synch them with the given amount of time.

No, I had missed Kathleen's post in the forums. Thanks for pointing it out.

I agree, if it changes documentation at all, we should save it for the winter release.

BTW, I'd like to underline a pretty important point about how I manage . . .

When I ask a question in a meeting or in email, it's just that, a question.

There is no decision implicit in what I'm asking about. I am not trying to win a debate. I know it's common for people to push their own point of view. My job is instead to resolve (and expose) different factors.

Very often, I ask questions surrounding an issue, so that a more informed decision can be made. I'll often ask a series of questions that are counter to the mood of the group, and then at the end, go with the group consensus.

This is deliberate . . . it's a very useful management skill. Someone needs to ask pertinent contrary questions.

Usually my questioning is seen by software groups for what it is ... the manager asking a bunch of annoying questions, or later when they learn to respect me more, being thorough. There are always many, many factors that are not spoken of, usually with business and users in mind, sometimes usability, etc. In most contexts, I have the authority to simply say, "This is the way we're doing it" after the debate. With Squeakland, decisions are based on consensus (or at least majority). Even so, it's still my job to ask contrary questions.

Asking a contrary question is not a sign of disrespect for another's opinion. It's not even a sign of disagreement with another opinion. It's just a question.

Take care, Tim

I push a DrGeo ChangeSet in the ticket http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-324

I agree it may be better to do some testing before final integration in a public release, so depending on the schedule it could mean waiting for the next Etoys release.

For example, in the viewer, I saw the drgeo tile category is empty for the DrGeo point items, so some DrGeo code need to be updated to make it working again.

Hilaire

2009/9/4 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:

Reflecting on this I have to say it's a bit late in the beta cycle to touch these things we never talked about before.

And Yoshiki's suggestion to put in DrGeo right after this release is probably wise, too. I could not reach Hilaire anyway, his email bounces.

• Bert -

On 04.09.2009, at 22:05, kharness@illinois.edu wrote:

...

Hi Tim, There are a number of the Help Guides that would no longer be accurate if you eliminate the Basic category. Kathleen

---- Original message ----

...

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:52:49 -0400 From: "teefal" etoys-dev-forum@squeakland.org Subject: [etoys-dev] Re: What about shipping DrGeo in Etoys? To: etoys-dev@squeakland.org

Here's a thought . . .

1. Get rid of "Basic" as a category

2. Put everything within it into Supply Bin, if it's  not there already, or Graphics

3. Make a new category called "Apps", where we'll  put standalone "microworlds"

4. Add DrGeo and Kedama to Apps

5. Possibly add everything in Games to Apps also,  and get rid of that category

6. Make the object catalog wide enough so categories  fit in one row

7. Add some padding around catalog items, so  categories like Connectors don't look so cluttered.

---

etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev

2009/9/6 Karl Ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com:

On 2009-09-05 23:11, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:

...

I push a DrGeo ChangeSet in the ticket http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-324

I agree it may be better to do some testing before final integration in a public release, so depending on the schedule it could mean waiting for the next Etoys release.

For example, in the viewer, I saw the drgeo tile category is empty for the DrGeo point items, so some DrGeo code need to be updated to make it working again.

DrGeoII is so awesome :-)

A bug: 'DrGeo new' comes up with the scroll wheels invisible.

Yes, 'DrGeo new' is broken and it is not the way to use DrGeo.

There were mainly two UI for DrGeo: 1. an interface with flaps containing the various tools 2. an interface looking more like a PaintMorph without flaps and icon.

I fell the former one does not integrate well to the Etoysish spirit. With the later one you can mix more easily third party artifacts within the DrGeo canvas.

From the later one you can also drag from the Halo Menu tool buttons

and drop them in the canvas. That way a teacher can plug a set of buttons in the canvas or somewhere else (for example in bookmorph pages...)

I will remove sooner or later the code with the flaps.

Now you can do 'DrGeo sample openInWorld', this is what does dragging DrGeo from the part bins.

I think it would be cool with a full screen new project with 'DrGeo new'

Yes.

I use to compile issue/suggestion there https://gna.org/bugs/?func=additem&group=istoa

No authentication required to report.

Hilaire