Hi Bert,

The cursor control is much improved in releases after build 656 (e.g. in release 8.2 = build 767). So getting people upgraded off 656 is a quick win in terms of reducing cursor jumpiness.

That said, there is new hardware coming and we believe it will reduce the occurrence of this issue even more.

In terms of when the new touchpad will be available, I don't know the exact date. I believe its a matter of some weeks from now but I don't have the final word.

BTW, what I'm suggesting on the cursor size is to allow the user to pick it. In my primitive view, everything in Etoys (or is it Squeak?) can be changed via tweaking variables (objects?). Make the cursor size and maybe a variable which is easily accessible and documented and you can pass the buck to the user :-)

Thanks,

Greg S

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

On 20.11.2008, at 13:50, Greg Smith wrote:

...

Hi All,

FYI here is another link I saw recently about people using eToys with the XO. Interestingly, they used the tutorials on your web site to great effect.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/olpc-mali-collaboration-emerges-as-the-program-win...

Nice :)

...

I see one feature requests in there about allowing people to change the size of the cursor. Since everything can be modified on the fly, I imagine that is possible already. If so you may want to document it somewhere and if not you may want to add it.

Well, there actually is a preference indeed to enable the big cursor, and it is of course enabled on the XO for its 200 dpi screen (the regular 16 pixels-tall cursor is *tiny*). We already made the cursor quite a bit smaller and pointier than Eben's Sugar default cursor. But maybe it's still too large ...

Takashi, what do you think?

...

I'm not sure what version of the XO they had in Mali but I would guess that its an old one with cursor control problems which have been minimized in later releases.

Well, the touchpad seems to be the single biggest annoyance of the current hardware. I noticed that the Waveplace pilots in the Carribean actually provided USB mice to children. Any idea when the new touchpad goes into production?

• Bert -

Well, I don't believe in preferences ;) There should be an optimal size.

Besides, we have no simple way to persist preferences yet. See

https://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8831

Also, until someone comes up with funding we're in bug fixing / maintenance mode, so this is unlikely to be worked on by the core team soonish. Patches welcome, of course :)

- Bert -

On 20.11.2008, at 14:27, Greg Smith wrote:

Hi Bert,

The cursor control is much improved in releases after build 656 (e.g. in release 8.2 = build 767). So getting people upgraded off 656 is a quick win in terms of reducing cursor jumpiness.

That said, there is new hardware coming and we believe it will reduce the occurrence of this issue even more.

In terms of when the new touchpad will be available, I don't know the exact date. I believe its a matter of some weeks from now but I don't have the final word.

BTW, what I'm suggesting on the cursor size is to allow the user to pick it. In my primitive view, everything in Etoys (or is it Squeak?) can be changed via tweaking variables (objects?). Make the cursor size and maybe a variable which is easily accessible and documented and you can pass the buck to the user :-)

Thanks,

Greg S

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

On 20.11.2008, at 13:50, Greg Smith wrote:

...

Hi All,

FYI here is another link I saw recently about people using eToys with the XO. Interestingly, they used the tutorials on your web site to great effect.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/olpc-mali-collaboration-emerges-as-the-program-win...

Nice :)

...

I see one feature requests in there about allowing people to change the size of the cursor. Since everything can be modified on the fly, I imagine that is possible already. If so you may want to document it somewhere and if not you may want to add it.

Well, there actually is a preference indeed to enable the big cursor, and it is of course enabled on the XO for its 200 dpi screen (the regular 16 pixels-tall cursor is *tiny*). We already made the cursor quite a bit smaller and pointier than Eben's Sugar default cursor. But maybe it's still too large ... Takashi, what do you think?

...

I'm not sure what version of the XO they had in Mali but I would guess that its an old one with cursor control problems which have been minimized in later releases.

Well, the touchpad seems to be the single biggest annoyance of the current hardware. I noticed that the Waveplace pilots in the Carribean actually provided USB mice to children. Any idea when the new touchpad goes into production?

• Bert -

On 20.11.2008, at 20:21, Takashi Yamamiya wrote:

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

Well, there actually is a preference indeed to enable the big cursor, and it is of course enabled on the XO for its 200 dpi screen (the regular 16 pixels-tall cursor is *tiny*). We already made the cursor quite a bit smaller and pointier than Eben's Sugar default cursor. But maybe it's still too large ... Takashi, what do you think?

I believe that all cursors for each software in a system should be same size. So I think cursor size have to be in the system global preference if it is necessary.

While I agree in principle, by that logic we'd have to switch to the Sugar cursor which is unusably bulky. Besides, we don't have the logic to use system cursors yet.

But we could easily make our cursor smaller. Do we want to do that?

- Bert -

On 20.11.2008, at 22:16, Takashi Yamamiya wrote:

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

On 20.11.2008, at 20:21, Takashi Yamamiya wrote:

...

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

Well, there actually is a preference indeed to enable the big cursor, and it is of course enabled on the XO for its 200 dpi screen (the regular 16 pixels-tall cursor is *tiny*). We already made the cursor quite a bit smaller and pointier than Eben's Sugar default cursor. But maybe it's still too large ... Takashi, what do you think?

I believe that all cursors for each software in a system should be same size. So I think cursor size have to be in the system global preference if it is necessary.

While I agree in principle, by that logic we'd have to switch to the Sugar cursor which is unusably bulky. Besides, we don't have the logic to use system cursors yet.

Yes,

...

But we could easily make our cursor smaller. Do we want to do that?

I don't think so for now. It is difficult to read optimal cursor size only from the article.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/olpc-mali-collaboration-emerges-as-the-program-win... The mouse was either too fast, or their little fingers were too fast. There is no consistency with the mouse arrow and buttons. It is too big and the buttons are too small. It would be great if the child could choose the size of the arrow as it can sometimes get lost on screen.

Even we have to make it larger, otherwise it would get lost on screen more likely???

Hmm, strange indeed. I'd vote for pressure-sensitive touchpad buttons then, the more you press, the larger the cursor gets. How does that sound?

- Bert -

Or, to locate the cursor, how about a brief ripple wave upon touching the pad, as if a drop of water had landed on the screen at the cursor point, and the screen behaves like the surface of a puddle? That would be a universal metaphor on planet Earth.

See at end below...

Cheers, -Ken Ritchie (Atlanta) ;-)

PS, Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse typos & brevity.

On Nov 20, 2008, at 17:25, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:

On 20.11.2008, at 22:16, Takashi Yamamiya wrote:

...

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

On 20.11.2008, at 20:21, Takashi Yamamiya wrote:

...

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

...

Well, there actually is a preference indeed to enable the big cursor, and it is of course enabled on the XO for its 200 dpi screen (the regular 16 pixels-tall cursor is *tiny*). We already made the cursor quite a bit smaller and pointier than Eben's Sugar default cursor. But maybe it's still too large ... Takashi, what do you think?

I believe that all cursors for each software in a system should be same size. So I think cursor size have to be in the system global preference if it is necessary.

While I agree in principle, by that logic we'd have to switch to the Sugar cursor which is unusably bulky. Besides, we don't have the logic to use system cursors yet.

Yes,

...

But we could easily make our cursor smaller. Do we want to do that?

I don't think so for now. It is difficult to read optimal cursor size only from the article.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/olpc-mali-collaboration-emerges-as-the-program-win... The mouse was either too fast, or their little fingers were too fast. There is no consistency with the mouse arrow and buttons. It is too big and the buttons are too small. It would be great if the child could choose the size of the arrow as it can sometimes get lost on screen.

Even we have to make it larger, otherwise it would get lost on screen more likely???

Hmm, strange indeed. I'd vote for pressure-sensitive touchpad buttons then, the more you press, the larger the cursor gets. How does that sound?

• Bert -

The cursor could be any size, if it is easy enough to find it. Here is a simple yet sufficient way to draw my eye to the cursor:

When my finger tip lands on the touch pad - either to tap or drag - I would like to see a circular wavefront (a growing ring) briefly emanating from the point of the cursor, appearing as if the screen were a puddle and I had lightly touched the surface at the point of the cursor.

Perhaps if we demonstrate this in etoys first, it could become popular enough to be implemented in the XO Sugar as a universal effect.

It could be done as a simple bitblt ring that grows and fades, even without any liquid visual puddle effect. The goal is to gently draw one's gaze to the locus of the cursor by way of a visual cue. This method would work with any cursor size, shape, or color.

Cheers again, -Ken Ritchie (Atlanta)

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