Hello, Is there a way to retrieve a paint palette that has been moved out of sight but the paint scrim still is visible? And, can we prevent this from happening?
Several times this past week with middle beginners, the palette was gone and they could not tell me what they did. I know the paints' halo does not have an *X* but it is possible to use the black handle and move it completely out of sight. Sometimes when that happened the paint brush was the only cursor and the project could not be continued and sometimes the cursor appeared when outside of the paint scrim but there was no way to trash the scrim and the project had to be abandoned, started again.
Looking further into this,the paint palette's white menu includes 'send to back' which is a command that can not be undone because it puts the palette behind the scrim. I tried to open the world menu to see if 'round up strays' would help, but the world halo will not appear when the scrim is visible and the palette is missing.
It is discouraging for beginners who lose the work they have done up to that point that day. In classroom use this is a problem for the student and for the teacher because it is course work and not casual play at home.
CAPLock-ALT- . does not help in this case. Regards, Kathleen
On Saturday 13 Oct 2012 10:18:24 AM Kathleen Harness wrote:
Several times this past week with middle beginners, the palette was gone and they could not tell me what they did. I know the paints' halo does not have an X but it is possible to use the black handle and move it completely out of sight.
Which version of Etoys? In 4.1, dragging PaintBox outside of the screen area sticks it against the edge or corner. It doesn't disappear fully. If it is collapsed, you should see a small window along the top left side of the screen to restore it.
Sometimes when that happened the paint brush was the only cursor and the project could not be continued and sometimes the cursor appeared when outside of the paint scrim but there was no way to trash the scrim and the project had to be abandoned, started again.
You can select the 'onion skin' (SketchEditor) by shift-drag rectangle selection, just like you would select a group of objects. However, trashing this does not close the palette automatically :-(. You may have to get a holder, drop it in and then trash the holder.
Regards .. Subbu
Subbu, I am using Etoys 5 here at home and the students were using the latest version of Etoys-to-Go. In either case, slide the paint palette out of sight, (I see the resistance you describe as sticking to an edge) but then click on the world and the paint palette's halo vanishes, the palette is out of sight and the paint area is still there.
Using the Shift-drag rectangle discards that lonesome paint area but clicking for a new paint tool from the Navigator Bar brings the message "you can only paint one object at a time".
This is not an urgent problem just something I noticed and wondered if it could be prevented in the next release. As it stands now when this happens, students get to practice patience and resiliency. Regards, Kathleen
________________________________________ From: etoys-dev-bounces@squeakland.org [etoys-dev-bounces@squeakland.org] on behalf of K. K. Subramaniam [kksubbu.ml@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 2:45 AM To: etoys-dev@squeakland.org Cc: Kathleen Harness Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] lost paint palettes
On Saturday 13 Oct 2012 10:18:24 AM Kathleen Harness wrote:
Several times this past week with middle beginners, the palette was gone and they could not tell me what they did. I know the paints' halo does not have an X but it is possible to use the black handle and move it completely out of sight.
Which version of Etoys? In 4.1, dragging PaintBox outside of the screen area sticks it against the edge or corner. It doesn't disappear fully. If it is collapsed, you should see a small window along the top left side of the screen to restore it.
Sometimes when that happened the paint brush was the only cursor and the project could not be continued and sometimes the cursor appeared when outside of the paint scrim but there was no way to trash the scrim and the project had to be abandoned, started again.
You can select the 'onion skin' (SketchEditor) by shift-drag rectangle selection, just like you would select a group of objects. However, trashing this does not close the palette automatically :-(. You may have to get a holder, drop it in and then trash the holder.
Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 12:42:16 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Subbu, I am using Etoys 5 here at home and the students were using the latest version of Etoys-to-Go. In either case, slide the paint palette out of sight, (I see the resistance you describe as sticking to an edge) but then click on the world and the paint palette's halo vanishes, the palette is out of sight and the paint area is still there.
I just downloaded Etoys-To-Go-5.0 from squeakland and couldn't reproduce this behavior. When I drag the palette off the right edge, the palette's border sticks out at that edge. If I now click on the world, the halo does vanish but the border is still stuck at the edge. I could restore the palette back into the screen area by dragging on the border.
Using the Shift-drag rectangle discards that lonesome paint area but clicking for a new paint tool from the Navigator Bar brings the message "you can only paint one object at a time".
I couldn't reproduce this too. If I drag-select the sketch editor skin and delete it, the paintbox still hangs around but if I click the "make a painting" button, I get a new sketch editor associated with the old paintbox.
BTW, you can bring up the world menu with one of ALT-COMMA/CTRL-COMMA/CMD- COMMA and then use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only when necessary.
Regards .. Subbu
Hi Subbu, . This below is using Etoys 5.0 on my PC. Drag the paint palette out of view of the right side of the world with left click and drag and it does show along the edge. Drag the paint palette using the black halo handle and it moves out of sight leaving just a little of the set of halo handles showing. Click on the world and those handles vanish leaving just the paint area rectangle and no way to get to that paint palette.
After doing the above steps and shift drag around the remaining paint area rectangle, the X will delete the area. Then try to open a new paint tool from the Nav Bar and I get a paint area rectangle and brush still showing and the message about only one paint tool at a time. Other objects in Supplies, eg Text are still available for use as usual, it is just paint tool's palette that is gone.
I am not explaining this well. We may need to Google + screen share so I can show this happening. It breaks every time for me.
Thank you for attributing to me deeper knowledge than I have . . . I do not know how to use this information even when I follow the steps "use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only when necessary." Regards, Kathleen
________________________________________ From: K. K. Subramaniam [kksubbu.ml@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 10:37 AM To: Harness, Kathleen Cc: etoys-dev@squeakland.org; Kathleen Harness Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] lost paint palettes
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 12:42:16 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Subbu, I am using Etoys 5 here at home and the students were using the latest version of Etoys-to-Go. In either case, slide the paint palette out of sight, (I see the resistance you describe as sticking to an edge) but then click on the world and the paint palette's halo vanishes, the palette is out of sight and the paint area is still there.
I just downloaded Etoys-To-Go-5.0 from squeakland and couldn't reproduce this behavior. When I drag the palette off the right edge, the palette's border sticks out at that edge. If I now click on the world, the halo does vanish but the border is still stuck at the edge. I could restore the palette back into the screen area by dragging on the border.
Using the Shift-drag rectangle discards that lonesome paint area but clicking for a new paint tool from the Navigator Bar brings the message "you can only paint one object at a time".
I couldn't reproduce this too. If I drag-select the sketch editor skin and delete it, the paintbox still hangs around but if I click the "make a painting" button, I get a new sketch editor associated with the old paintbox.
BTW, you can bring up the world menu with one of ALT-COMMA/CTRL-COMMA/CMD- COMMA and then use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only when necessary.
Regards .. Subbu
Hi I can not reproduce as you describe.
I can not shift drag the paint area. I can move the paintbox virtually off screen but for the most part it will move back so it's border is showing. But I can always grab it and move it back onscreen.
Side note: I can see that menu item 'send to back' can be harmful for the paintbox. Especially when 'unlimited paint area' preference is turned on.
Karl
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Harness, Kathleen kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi Subbu, . This below is using Etoys 5.0 on my PC. Drag the paint palette out of view of the right side of the world with left click and drag and it does show along the edge. Drag the paint palette using the black halo handle and it moves out of sight leaving just a little of the set of halo handles showing. Click on the world and those handles vanish leaving just the paint area rectangle and no way to get to that paint palette.
After doing the above steps and shift drag around the remaining paint area rectangle, the X will delete the area. Then try to open a new paint tool from the Nav Bar and I get a paint area rectangle and brush still showing and the message about only one paint tool at a time. Other objects in Supplies, eg Text are still available for use as usual, it is just paint tool's palette that is gone.
I am not explaining this well. We may need to Google + screen share so I can show this happening. It breaks every time for me.
Thank you for attributing to me deeper knowledge than I have . . . I do not know how to use this information even when I follow the steps "use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only when necessary." Regards, Kathleen
From: K. K. Subramaniam [kksubbu.ml@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 10:37 AM To: Harness, Kathleen Cc: etoys-dev@squeakland.org; Kathleen Harness Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] lost paint palettes
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 12:42:16 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Subbu, I am using Etoys 5 here at home and the students were using the latest version of Etoys-to-Go. In either case, slide the paint palette out of sight, (I see the resistance you describe as sticking to an edge) but then click on the world and the paint palette's halo vanishes, the palette is out of sight and the paint area is still there.
I just downloaded Etoys-To-Go-5.0 from squeakland and couldn't reproduce this behavior. When I drag the palette off the right edge, the palette's border sticks out at that edge. If I now click on the world, the halo does vanish but the border is still stuck at the edge. I could restore the palette back into the screen area by dragging on the border.
Using the Shift-drag rectangle discards that lonesome paint area but clicking for a new paint tool from the Navigator Bar brings the message "you can only paint one object at a time".
I couldn't reproduce this too. If I drag-select the sketch editor skin and delete it, the paintbox still hangs around but if I click the "make a painting" button, I get a new sketch editor associated with the old paintbox.
BTW, you can bring up the world menu with one of ALT-COMMA/CTRL-COMMA/CMD- COMMA and then use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only when necessary.
Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Kathleen,
I was able to reproduce on a Mac running 5.0 by dragging completely off the screen.
To get the Paint Box back (does not handle the case if they drag it to the trash):
1. ALT-COMMA/CTRL-COMMA/CMD-COMMA (Mac) 2. From the Menu click <playfield options...> 3. From Playfield Options Menu click <round up strays>
I agree this should be prevented and/or provide a simple Key Combination to retrieve it.
Stephen
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:07 PM, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
Hi I can not reproduce as you describe.
I can not shift drag the paint area. I can move the paintbox virtually off screen but for the most part it will move back so it's border is showing. But I can always grab it and move it back onscreen.
Side note: I can see that menu item 'send to back' can be harmful for the paintbox. Especially when 'unlimited paint area' preference is turned on.
Karl
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Harness, Kathleen kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi Subbu, . This below is using Etoys 5.0 on my PC. Drag the paint palette out of view of the right side of the world with
left click and drag and it does show along the edge.
Drag the paint palette using the black halo handle and it moves out of
sight leaving just a little of the set of halo handles showing. Click on the world and those handles vanish leaving just the paint area rectangle and no way to get to that paint palette.
After doing the above steps and shift drag around the remaining paint
area rectangle, the X will delete the area. Then try to open a new paint tool from the Nav Bar and I get a paint area rectangle and brush still showing and the message about only one paint tool at a time. Other objects in Supplies, eg Text are still available for use as usual, it is just paint tool's palette that is gone.
I am not explaining this well. We may need to Google + screen share so I
can show this happening. It breaks every time for me.
Thank you for attributing to me deeper knowledge than I have . . . I do
not know how to use this information even when I follow the steps "use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is
held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only
when necessary."
Regards, Kathleen
From: K. K. Subramaniam [kksubbu.ml@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 10:37 AM To: Harness, Kathleen Cc: etoys-dev@squeakland.org; Kathleen Harness Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] lost paint palettes
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 12:42:16 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Subbu, I am using Etoys 5 here at home and the students were using the latest version of Etoys-to-Go. In either case, slide the paint palette out of sight, (I see the resistance you describe as sticking to an edge) but
then
click on the world and the paint palette's halo vanishes, the palette is out of sight and the paint area is still there.
I just downloaded Etoys-To-Go-5.0 from squeakland and couldn't reproduce
this
behavior. When I drag the palette off the right edge, the palette's
border
sticks out at that edge. If I now click on the world, the halo does
vanish but
the border is still stuck at the edge. I could restore the palette back
into
the screen area by dragging on the border.
Using the Shift-drag rectangle discards that lonesome paint area but clicking for a new paint tool from the Navigator Bar brings the message "you can only paint one object at a time".
I couldn't reproduce this too. If I drag-select the sketch editor skin
and
delete it, the paintbox still hangs around but if I click the "make a painting" button, I get a new sketch editor associated with the old
paintbox.
BTW, you can bring up the world menu with one of
ALT-COMMA/CTRL-COMMA/CMD-
COMMA and then use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin
shows up
under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated
PaintBoxMorph is
held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only
when
necessary.
Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Hi Steve, Line 1 below does not work on my PC but CAPSLock-Alt-COMMA does work. The keystrokes are required as the world halo handles will not appear when the paint palette is not visible and the paint area rectangle still shows. Regards, Kathleen ________________________________ From: etoys-dev-bounces@squeakland.org [etoys-dev-bounces@squeakland.org] on behalf of Steve Thomas [sthomas1@gosargon.com] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 4:50 PM To: karl ramberg Cc: etoys-dev@squeakland.org; Kathleen Harness; Harness, Kathleen Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] lost paint palettes
Kathleen,
I was able to reproduce on a Mac running 5.0 by dragging completely off the screen.
To get the Paint Box back (does not handle the case if they drag it to the trash):
1. ALT-COMMA/CTRL-COMMA/CMD-COMMA (Mac) 2. From the Menu click <playfield options...> 3. From Playfield Options Menu click <round up strays>
I agree this should be prevented and/or provide a simple Key Combination to retrieve it.
Stephen
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:07 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg@gmail.commailto:karlramberg@gmail.com> wrote: Hi I can not reproduce as you describe.
I can not shift drag the paint area. I can move the paintbox virtually off screen but for the most part it will move back so it's border is showing. But I can always grab it and move it back onscreen.
Side note: I can see that menu item 'send to back' can be harmful for the paintbox. Especially when 'unlimited paint area' preference is turned on.
Karl
On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Harness, Kathleen <kharness@illinois.edumailto:kharness@illinois.edu> wrote:
Hi Subbu, . This below is using Etoys 5.0 on my PC. Drag the paint palette out of view of the right side of the world with left click and drag and it does show along the edge. Drag the paint palette using the black halo handle and it moves out of sight leaving just a little of the set of halo handles showing. Click on the world and those handles vanish leaving just the paint area rectangle and no way to get to that paint palette.
After doing the above steps and shift drag around the remaining paint area rectangle, the X will delete the area. Then try to open a new paint tool from the Nav Bar and I get a paint area rectangle and brush still showing and the message about only one paint tool at a time. Other objects in Supplies, eg Text are still available for use as usual, it is just paint tool's palette that is gone.
I am not explaining this well. We may need to Google + screen share so I can show this happening. It breaks every time for me.
Thank you for attributing to me deeper knowledge than I have . . . I do not know how to use this information even when I follow the steps "use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only when necessary." Regards, Kathleen
From: K. K. Subramaniam [kksubbu.ml@gmail.commailto:kksubbu.ml@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 10:37 AM To: Harness, Kathleen Cc: etoys-dev@squeakland.orgmailto:etoys-dev@squeakland.org; Kathleen Harness Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] lost paint palettes
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 12:42:16 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Subbu, I am using Etoys 5 here at home and the students were using the latest version of Etoys-to-Go. In either case, slide the paint palette out of sight, (I see the resistance you describe as sticking to an edge) but then click on the world and the paint palette's halo vanishes, the palette is out of sight and the paint area is still there.
I just downloaded Etoys-To-Go-5.0 from squeakland and couldn't reproduce this behavior. When I drag the palette off the right edge, the palette's border sticks out at that edge. If I now click on the world, the halo does vanish but the border is still stuck at the edge. I could restore the palette back into the screen area by dragging on the border.
Using the Shift-drag rectangle discards that lonesome paint area but clicking for a new paint tool from the Navigator Bar brings the message "you can only paint one object at a time".
I couldn't reproduce this too. If I drag-select the sketch editor skin and delete it, the paintbox still hangs around but if I click the "make a painting" button, I get a new sketch editor associated with the old paintbox.
BTW, you can bring up the world menu with one of ALT-COMMA/CTRL-COMMA/CMD- COMMA and then use "debug..." to "explore the world". The onion skin shows up under "root->submorphs->SketchEditorMorph" and its associated PaintBoxMorph is held in its palette attribute. Sketch editor creates a new paintbox only when necessary.
Regards .. Subbu _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.orgmailto:etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
_______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.orgmailto:etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 7:02:51 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Hi Subbu, . This below is using Etoys 5.0 on my PC. Drag the paint palette out of view of the right side of the world with left click and drag and it does show along the edge. Drag the paint palette using the black halo handle and it moves out of sight leaving just a little of the set of halo handles showing. Click on the world and those handles vanish leaving just the paint area rectangle and no way to get to that paint palette.
Thanks to Steve for duplicating the error on Mac. I was trying it on Ubuntu 12.04 and don't have a Mac handy. The behavior appears to be platform-specific. Steve's suggestion to use "round up strays" is an excellent one, esp. when combined with "fence enabled" for the world. It prevents objects from disappearing off the screen.
Please ignore my other suggestions about deleting onion skins and tracing objects through debug. Those are unnecessarily complicated and off-track. The juice is not worth the squeeze.
Regards .. Subbu
Subbu, Thanks for the follow up. And a special thanks for "the juice is not worth the squeeze". It great to laugh first thing in the morning. It will echo a long time in my head. Kathleen ________________________________________ From: K. K. Subramaniam [kksubbu.ml@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 4:38 AM To: Harness, Kathleen Cc: etoys-dev@squeakland.org; Kathleen Harness Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] lost paint palettes
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 7:02:51 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Hi Subbu, . This below is using Etoys 5.0 on my PC. Drag the paint palette out of view of the right side of the world with left click and drag and it does show along the edge. Drag the paint palette using the black halo handle and it moves out of sight leaving just a little of the set of halo handles showing. Click on the world and those handles vanish leaving just the paint area rectangle and no way to get to that paint palette.
Thanks to Steve for duplicating the error on Mac. I was trying it on Ubuntu 12.04 and don't have a Mac handy. The behavior appears to be platform-specific. Steve's suggestion to use "round up strays" is an excellent one, esp. when combined with "fence enabled" for the world. It prevents objects from disappearing off the screen.
Please ignore my other suggestions about deleting onion skins and tracing objects through debug. Those are unnecessarily complicated and off-track. The juice is not worth the squeeze.
Regards .. Subbu
On 15.10.2012, at 02:38, K. K. Subramaniam kksubbu.ml@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 14 Oct 2012 7:02:51 PM Harness, Kathleen wrote:
Hi Subbu, . This below is using Etoys 5.0 on my PC. Drag the paint palette out of view of the right side of the world with left click and drag and it does show along the edge. Drag the paint palette using the black halo handle and it moves out of sight leaving just a little of the set of halo handles showing. Click on the world and those handles vanish leaving just the paint area rectangle and no way to get to that paint palette.
Thanks to Steve for duplicating the error on Mac. I was trying it on Ubuntu 12.04 and don't have a Mac handy. The behavior appears to be platform-specific.
The difference appears to be that the Mac VM continues to send mouse events even when the pointer moved out of the Squeak window. Apparently on Linux it doesn't?
If so then it would be very simple to clip mouse movement to the window size inside of Squeak.
Steve's suggestion to use "round up strays" is an excellent one, esp. when combined with "fence enabled" for the world. It prevents objects from disappearing off the screen.
The fence is only used to restrict movement for the "forward by" tile.
- Bert -
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Harness, Kathleen -
K. K. Subramaniam -
karl ramberg -
Kathleen Harness -
Steve Thomas