Begin forwarded message:
From: Wade Brainerd wadetb@gmail.com Date: 7. April 2009 01:05:09 MESZ To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: [Sugar-devel] Unified Bundles
Hi all,
Aleksey finally prodded me (by creating an empty page and pointing me at it) into writing down my idea for Unified bundles which merges .xol and .xo files together.
It diverged somewhat into a plan to recast activities which do not support actually creating anything as "Content viewers". Those are ones like Read, Read Etexts, View Slides, Jukebox, etc.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Unified_Bundles
Comments welcome!
-Wade
Wade also proposed an "Etoys Content Viewer":
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Unified_Bundles#Etoys_Content_Viewer
- Bert -
Hi Bert,
This is very cool - I looked inside the FreeCell content viewer: this is basically an example that can be used to expose parts of Etoys for example, the speech synthetizer if it still exists, the painting tool, the MPeg player etc, as content or even activity (although without the Suger interactions I guess), right?
Milan
On April 7, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Begin forwarded message:
From: Wade Brainerd wadetb@gmail.com Date: 7. April 2009 01:05:09 MESZ To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: [Sugar-devel] Unified Bundles
Hi all,
Aleksey finally prodded me (by creating an empty page and pointing me at it) into writing down my idea for Unified bundles which merges .xol and .xo files together.
It diverged somewhat into a plan to recast activities which do not support actually creating anything as "Content viewers". Those are ones like Read, Read Etexts, View Slides, Jukebox, etc.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Unified_Bundles
Comments welcome!
-Wade
Wade also proposed an "Etoys Content Viewer":
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Unified_Bundles#Etoys_Content_Viewer
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On 09.04.2009, at 06:49, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Hi Bert,
This is very cool - I looked inside the FreeCell content viewer:
FreeCell activity, please. "Content viewer" does not really apply to Etoys.
this is basically an example that can be used to expose parts of Etoys for example, the speech synthetizer if it still exists, the painting tool, the MPeg player etc, as content or even activity
Right. I tried to communicate this several times before, but it seems to be worth repeating ;) The first was in July 2007 in fact:
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2007-July/000684.html
Anyway, you can rather easily make your own Squeak-based activity, even on a Mac or Win box: select a .pr or .st file, and click the "XO" button in the FileList. Voila. You get a skeleton activity that should work out-of-the-box if you install it in Sugar. Then you still have to manually edit it of course, replacing the default icon etc. but it's a fine start and in fact exactly what I did for FreeCell.
(although without the Suger interactions I guess), right?
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/load state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
- Bert -
On April 9, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 09.04.2009, at 06:49, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Hi Bert,
This is very cool - I looked inside the FreeCell content viewer:
FreeCell activity, please. "Content viewer" does not really apply to Etoys.
i agree :)
this is basically an example that can be used to expose parts of Etoys for example, the speech synthetizer if it still exists, the painting tool, the MPeg player etc, as content or even activity
Right. I tried to communicate this several times before, but it seems to be worth repeating ;) The first was in July 2007 in fact:
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2007-July/000684.html
Yes, I missed that.
Anyway, you can rather easily make your own Squeak-based activity, even on a Mac or Win box: select a .pr or .st file, and click the "XO" button in the FileList. Voila. You get a skeleton activity that should work out-of-the-box if you install it in Sugar. Then you still have to manually edit it of course, replacing the default icon etc. but it's a fine start and in fact exactly what I did for FreeCell.
Repeated that and it works as you are describing. I did not try to install and run the created activity yet.
(although without the Suger interactions I guess), right?
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/load state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
That would be good - both accessing Journal and network sharing are of interest to me. Journal Save is a good start I think. Step one for me, if you have have some pointers to Squeak code that interacts with Journal so I can look at it first, please let me know. Or comments on steps to start We could document the steps on Wiki if others are interested.
Milan
PS: I also have to update my sugar on stick tomorrow, the version I have does not run browser, which makes getting files from internet difficult.
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On 10.04.2009, at 07:15, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
On April 9, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/
load
state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
That would be good - both accessing Journal and network sharing are of interest to me. Journal Save is a good start I think. Step one for me, if you have have some pointers to Squeak code that interacts with Journal so I can look at it first, please let me know. Or comments on steps to start We could document the steps on Wiki if others are interested.
That would be good, yes. First you have to understand how Sugar works. Read this, in particular the Datastore section (but skim the rest too):
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Low-level_Activity_API
After that, maybe this makes sense:
http://wiki.squeakland.org/display/sq/Saving+to+a+file+in+Sugar
- Bert -
On April 10, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 10.04.2009, at 07:15, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
On April 9, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/
load
state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
That would be good - both accessing Journal and network sharing are of interest to me. Journal Save is a good start I think. Step one for me, if you have have some pointers to Squeak code that interacts with Journal so I can look at it first, please let me know. Or comments on steps to start We could document the steps on Wiki if others are interested.
That would be good, yes. First you have to understand how Sugar works. Read this, in particular the Datastore section (but skim the rest too):
NIce document, thanks. I will read it and get back in a few days.
In the meantime I installed the FreeCell Activity (does Sugar has any better way of installing activities than sugar-install-bundle from command line? there should be some way to install from Browser or a "manager activity").
Running it I realized the Etoys panel (The Stop and Quit and Keep buttons) already must have some interaction with Activity API, I will look at that code too.
After that, maybe this makes sense:
http://wiki.squeakland.org/display/sq/Saving+to+a+file+in+Sugar
ah I remember seeing this, yes.
ok will be in touch here,
Milan
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On 12.04.2009, at 09:41, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
In the meantime I installed the FreeCell Activity (does Sugar has any better way of installing activities than sugar-install-bundle from command line? there should be some way to install from Browser or a "manager activity").
When you download it using the Browse activity it gets installed automatically. Also, you can simply click the bundle in the Journal to launch it.
- Bert -
On April 12, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 12.04.2009, at 09:41, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
In the meantime I installed the FreeCell Activity (does Sugar has any better way of installing activities than sugar-install-bundle from command line? there should be some way to install from Browser or a "manager activity").
When you download it using the Browse activity it gets installed automatically.
I see thanks. Will try when Browser works for me on Soas2.
Also, you can simply click the bundle in the Journal to launch it.
true, once the bundle is on the system.
Thanks - Milan
- Bert -
Good stuff. We need this brought together for the Earth Treasury Digital Textbooks project, which Alan Kay and the Squeak Foundation are part of. We can start on the Wiki, and move to FLOSS Manuals when we have the material ready to convert to book form.
My idea is that we need some developer documentation for Squeak, Scratch, PyGame, SciPy, and so on for creating educational content, and then we need more than 100 textbooks on all subjects for all grade levels. Any tools that we can create that would be intermediate between programming and static content are all to the good. For example, Walter Bender's Portfolio extensions to Turtle Art can be used to bring together any set of activities, with displayed text, sound, and other enhancements, in a straight-through sequence or with any degree of interactivity and programming. As soon as I can find a stable build to work with that includes this version of Turtle Art, I will start publishing lesson plans as Portfolios.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 09.04.2009, at 06:49, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Hi Bert,
This is very cool - I looked inside the FreeCell content viewer:
FreeCell activity, please. "Content viewer" does not really apply to Etoys.
this is basically an example that can be used to expose parts of Etoys for example, the speech synthetizer if it still exists, the painting tool, the MPeg player etc, as content or even activity
Right. I tried to communicate this several times before, but it seems to be worth repeating ;) The first was in July 2007 in fact:
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2007-July/000684.html
Anyway, you can rather easily make your own Squeak-based activity, even on a Mac or Win box: select a .pr or .st file, and click the "XO" button in the FileList. Voila. You get a skeleton activity that should work out-of-the-box if you install it in Sugar. Then you still have to manually edit it of course, replacing the default icon etc. but it's a fine start and in fact exactly what I did for FreeCell.
(although without the Suger interactions I guess), right?
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/load state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
I think I already wrote that, but my feeling is that Etoys is the right incubator thanks to its tile programming system (which, btw, is still complex for the average teacher, but still simpler than anything else).
However, I fell what is missing is: - more elaborated artefacts to design rich interactive content (i.e artifact like DrGeo) - and an easy way to produce portable project document with such artefacts.
Hilaire
2009/4/22 Edward Cherlin echerlin@gmail.com
Good stuff. We need this brought together for the Earth Treasury Digital Textbooks project, which Alan Kay and the Squeak Foundation are part of. We can start on the Wiki, and move to FLOSS Manuals when we have the material ready to convert to book form.
My idea is that we need some developer documentation for Squeak, Scratch, PyGame, SciPy, and so on for creating educational content, and then we need more than 100 textbooks on all subjects for all grade levels. Any tools that we can create that would be intermediate between programming and static content are all to the good. For example, Walter Bender's Portfolio extensions to Turtle Art can be used to bring together any set of activities, with displayed text, sound, and other enhancements, in a straight-through sequence or with any degree of interactivity and programming. As soon as I can find a stable build to work with that includes this version of Turtle Art, I will start publishing lesson plans as Portfolios.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 09.04.2009, at 06:49, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Hi Bert,
This is very cool - I looked inside the FreeCell content viewer:
FreeCell activity, please. "Content viewer" does not really apply to Etoys.
this is basically an example that can be used to expose parts of Etoys for example, the speech synthetizer if it still exists, the painting tool, the MPeg player etc, as content or even activity
Right. I tried to communicate this several times before, but it seems to be worth repeating ;) The first was in July 2007 in fact:
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2007-July/000684.html
Anyway, you can rather easily make your own Squeak-based activity, even on a Mac or Win box: select a .pr or .st file, and click the "XO" button in the FileList. Voila. You get a skeleton activity that should work out-of-the-box if you install it in Sugar. Then you still have to manually edit it of course, replacing the default icon etc. but it's a fine start and in fact exactly what I did for FreeCell.
(although without the Suger interactions I guess), right?
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/load state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
-- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
Hi
if you want my book on BotsInc it is free now. I'm converting the pdf to latex to help consistency between translation. http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1561 http://gforge.inria.fr/projects/botsinc/
http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/botsinc (underr migration)
Stef
On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Edward Cherlin wrote:
Good stuff. We need this brought together for the Earth Treasury Digital Textbooks project, which Alan Kay and the Squeak Foundation are part of. We can start on the Wiki, and move to FLOSS Manuals when we have the material ready to convert to book form.
My idea is that we need some developer documentation for Squeak, Scratch, PyGame, SciPy, and so on for creating educational content, and then we need more than 100 textbooks on all subjects for all grade levels. Any tools that we can create that would be intermediate between programming and static content are all to the good. For example, Walter Bender's Portfolio extensions to Turtle Art can be used to bring together any set of activities, with displayed text, sound, and other enhancements, in a straight-through sequence or with any degree of interactivity and programming. As soon as I can find a stable build to work with that includes this version of Turtle Art, I will start publishing lesson plans as Portfolios.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 09.04.2009, at 06:49, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Hi Bert,
This is very cool - I looked inside the FreeCell content viewer:
FreeCell activity, please. "Content viewer" does not really apply to Etoys.
this is basically an example that can be used to expose parts of Etoys for example, the speech synthetizer if it still exists, the painting tool, the MPeg player etc, as content or even activity
Right. I tried to communicate this several times before, but it seems to be worth repeating ;) The first was in July 2007 in fact:
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2007-July/000684.html
Anyway, you can rather easily make your own Squeak-based activity, even on a Mac or Win box: select a .pr or .st file, and click the "XO" button in the FileList. Voila. You get a skeleton activity that should work out-of-the-box if you install it in Sugar. Then you still have to manually edit it of course, replacing the default icon etc. but it's a fine start and in fact exactly what I did for FreeCell.
(although without the Suger interactions I guess), right?
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/ load state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
-- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/ دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 3:24 AM, stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@free.fr wrote:
Hi
if you want my book on BotsInc it is free now.
Merci.
You wrote:
...you will not be using the default Squeak distribution. Rather, you will be using a distribution that I have prepared for use with this book. It can be downloaded from the publisher of this book at http://www.apress.com, in the Downloads section.
I had to search on Google for the download, at
http://scg.unibe.ch/wiki/botsinc/download/
It says, "Ready Linux: to get a linux version you should install squeak via http://www.squeak.org/ then download the readyMac or readyPC file and use the (image and changes) provided there."
I have been using Etoys on the OLPC XO and on Ubuntu Linux. Does your modification work with them, or do I need to install plain Squeak?
Would you like to get this packaged for various Linux distributions? Can we include the PDF on the OLPC XO and in other Sugar images, or on the school server?
I'm converting the pdf to latex to help consistency between translation. http://gforge.inria.fr/frs/?group_id=1561 http://gforge.inria.fr/projects/botsinc/
http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/botsinc (under migration)
Stef
On Apr 22, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Edward Cherlin wrote:
Good stuff. We need this brought together for the Earth Treasury Digital Textbooks project, which Alan Kay and the Squeak Foundation are part of. We can start on the Wiki, and move to FLOSS Manuals when we have the material ready to convert to book form.
My idea is that we need some developer documentation for Squeak, Scratch, PyGame, SciPy, and so on for creating educational content, and then we need more than 100 textbooks on all subjects for all grade levels. Any tools that we can create that would be intermediate between programming and static content are all to the good. For example, Walter Bender's Portfolio extensions to Turtle Art can be used to bring together any set of activities, with displayed text, sound, and other enhancements, in a straight-through sequence or with any degree of interactivity and programming. As soon as I can find a stable build to work with that includes this version of Turtle Art, I will start publishing lesson plans as Portfolios.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 09.04.2009, at 06:49, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
Hi Bert,
This is very cool - I looked inside the FreeCell content viewer:
FreeCell activity, please. "Content viewer" does not really apply to Etoys.
this is basically an example that can be used to expose parts of Etoys for example, the speech synthetizer if it still exists, the painting tool, the MPeg player etc, as content or even activity
Right. I tried to communicate this several times before, but it seems to be worth repeating ;) The first was in July 2007 in fact:
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/etoys/2007-July/000684.html
Anyway, you can rather easily make your own Squeak-based activity, even on a Mac or Win box: select a .pr or .st file, and click the "XO" button in the FileList. Voila. You get a skeleton activity that should work out-of-the-box if you install it in Sugar. Then you still have to manually edit it of course, replacing the default icon etc. but it's a fine start and in fact exactly what I did for FreeCell.
(although without the Suger interactions I guess), right?
It could have full Sugar interaction. From time to time I do explain how to access the Journal from Squeak, that could be used to save/load state. Same for network collaboration.
If you are interested we can work on extending the FreeCell activity together. Like adding Journal save/resume.
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
-- Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name And Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin) _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On April 7, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Begin forwarded message:
From: Wade Brainerd wadetb@gmail.com Date: 7. April 2009 01:05:09 MESZ To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: [Sugar-devel] Unified Bundles
Hi all,
Aleksey finally prodded me (by creating an empty page and pointing me at it) into writing down my idea for Unified bundles which merges .xol and .xo files together.
It diverged somewhat into a plan to recast activities which do not support actually creating anything as "Content viewers". Those are ones like Read, Read Etexts, View Slides, Jukebox, etc.
Actually, I have a question. Paste from the link above: ========== Etoys-based Unified content bundles are made up of a Squeak script or Etoys project. The activity.info file contains the line: exec sugar-etoys-activity [options] <squeak_file> ===== In the freecell-1.xo: exec = FreeCell.sh ====== I assume sugar-etoys-activity <==> FreeCell.sh Is the website obsolete? (note the = missing in the website line)
Thanks - Milan
Comments welcome!
-Wade
Wade also proposed an "Etoys Content Viewer":
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Unified_Bundles#Etoys_Content_Viewer
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On 09.04.2009, at 06:58, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
On April 7, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Begin forwarded message:
From: Wade Brainerd wadetb@gmail.com Date: 7. April 2009 01:05:09 MESZ To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: [Sugar-devel] Unified Bundles
Hi all,
Aleksey finally prodded me (by creating an empty page and
pointing me
at it) into writing down my idea for Unified bundles which
merges .xol
and .xo files together.
It diverged somewhat into a plan to recast activities which do not support actually creating anything as "Content viewers". Those are ones like Read, Read Etexts, View Slides, Jukebox, etc.
Actually, I have a question. Paste from the link above:
Etoys-based Unified content bundles are made up of a Squeak script or Etoys project. The activity.info file contains the line: exec sugar-etoys-activity [options] <squeak_file> ===== In the freecell-1.xo: exec = FreeCell.sh ====== I assume sugar-etoys-activity <==> FreeCell.sh Is the website obsolete? (note the = missing in the website line)
The website is just a proposal, it's not agreed upon, much less implemented.
In fact the "Unified Bundles" are not really needed for Etoys anyway, because our bundles already are very lean and only have a tiny shell script (like in the FreeCell case). The proposal IMHO applies only to activities that have a significant amount of code in their bundle, which should not be duplicated in each "content bundle".
- Bert -
On April 9, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 09.04.2009, at 06:58, Milan Zimmermann wrote:
On April 7, 2009, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
Begin forwarded message:
From: Wade Brainerd wadetb@gmail.com Date: 7. April 2009 01:05:09 MESZ To: Sugar Devel sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: [Sugar-devel] Unified Bundles
Hi all,
Aleksey finally prodded me (by creating an empty page and
pointing me
at it) into writing down my idea for Unified bundles which
merges .xol
and .xo files together.
It diverged somewhat into a plan to recast activities which do not support actually creating anything as "Content viewers". Those are ones like Read, Read Etexts, View Slides, Jukebox, etc.
Actually, I have a question. Paste from the link above:
Etoys-based Unified content bundles are made up of a Squeak script or Etoys project. The activity.info file contains the line: exec sugar-etoys-activity [options] <squeak_file> ===== In the freecell-1.xo: exec = FreeCell.sh ====== I assume sugar-etoys-activity <==> FreeCell.sh Is the website obsolete? (note the = missing in the website line)
The website is just a proposal, it's not agreed upon, much less implemented.
I see, thanks.
In fact the "Unified Bundles" are not really needed for Etoys anyway, because our bundles already are very lean and only have a tiny shell script (like in the FreeCell case). The proposal IMHO applies only to activities that have a significant amount of code in their bundle, which should not be duplicated in each "content bundle".
ok,
Thanks, Milan
- Bert -
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Edward Cherlin -
Hilaire Fernandes -
Milan Zimmermann -
stephane ducasse