Hello,
The Etoys team made a new version of the Etoys image. This time, we decided:
* to bump the major version number from 2 to 3. * to make a new .sources file called EtoysV3.sources, and * create a new update stream called "etoys3.0".
Because of the Squeak's source code management limitation, the method change history needed to be discarded, and migrating from etoys 2.3 to etoys 3.0 is not automatic. To keep up with the new head of the update stream, you have to do the following.
* Download
http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/EtoysV3.sources
and copy it to the directory where the VM resides or your image resides. (Search SqueakV3.sources on your disk and place EtoysV3.sources right next to it.)
* Download http://tinlizzie.org/olpc/etoys-dev-3.0.zip and extract the files to your working directory.
* If you are working in an 2.3 image, migrate your code and objects somehow to the new image. (If you know what you are doing, you could evaluate: SystemVersion newVersion: 'etoys3.0' in your 2.3-based image and fetch new changes for 3.0. But doing so is discouraged.)
For the OLPC project, the etoys2.3 stream *should* be "final". As long as the Update.1 deadline doesn't force us, we are not going to push any new changes to etoys2.3.
New changes will be pushed to the etoys3.0 update stream. Please fetch updates now and then to your 3.0-based image.
-- Yoshiki (for the Etoys team)
Yoshiki,
I have a question regarding comment below:
For the OLPC project, the etoys2.3 stream *should* be "final". As long as the Update.1 deadline doesn't force us, we are not going to push any new changes to etoys2.3.
Does that mean that after Update.1 etoys3 will be shiped on the XO, and if so, does that mean it will not be possible for normal user to update their OLPC to a later version, for example, Update.1.1, without loosing their etoys2.3 projects (because they were created under Update.1 or earlier)?
Also, could you comment how does 2.3 and 3.0 relate to the non-OLPC version announced in earlier post "A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XO environments".
Also, which of the above (2.3, 3.0, non-olpc) are you most interested for people to test? :)
Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious (and have some limited time to test if required)
Later, Milan
New changes will be pushed to the etoys3.0 update stream. Please fetch updates now and then to your 3.0-based image.
-- Yoshiki (for the Etoys team) _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
For the OLPC project, the etoys2.3 stream *should* be "final". As long as the Update.1 deadline doesn't force us, we are not going to push any new changes to etoys2.3.
Does that mean that after Update.1 etoys3 will be shiped on the XO, and if so, does that mean it will not be possible for normal user to update their OLPC to a later version, for example, Update.1.1, without loosing their etoys2.3 projects (because they were created under Update.1 or earlier)?
I wasn't clear about it, sorry.
All projects made in Etoys 2.3 and before will open in etoys 3.0. If not, it is a bug.
What I was referring to in the previous paragraph was the Smalltalk code and Smalltalk objects created from do its.
So, basically, don't worry about it.
Also, could you comment how does 2.3 and 3.0 relate to the non-OLPC version announced in earlier post "A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XO environments".
The new non-OLPC version (Squeakland-Etoys) will based on Etoys 3.0, but besides the version number, Etoys 3.0 will accumulate incremental changes from Etoys 2.3, so, there aren't too big differences.
Also, which of the above (2.3, 3.0, non-olpc) are you most interested for people to test? :)
On a platform other than XO, please test OLPC-Etoysyymmdd.zip. On XO, generally, keep up with OLPC's latest development version. (Or the latest stable version, depending on your use case.)
Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious (and have some limited time to test if required)
Thank you for asking, actually! Hopefully this makes it clearer.
-- Yoshiki
On Feb 19, 2008, at 5:12 , Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Also, could you comment how does 2.3 and 3.0 relate to the non- OLPC version
announced in earlier post "A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XO environments".
The new non-OLPC version (Squeakland-Etoys) will based on Etoys 3.0, but besides the version number, Etoys 3.0 will accumulate incremental changes from Etoys 2.3, so, there aren't too big differences.
3.0 really is only an incremental step over 2.3, it could as well have been named 2.4. The reason to go with 3.0 was simply because we wanted a new sources file (EtoysV3.sources). We do not expect to introduce major incompatibilities or even features in this line of development. It has to go stable now. Contributions from the community are welcome, but the core team will not add features. There certainly will be improvements, one biggie is better international text rendering, another restoration of media playback, but from a user's point of view Etoys can be considered pretty much feature- complete.
- Bert -
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Feb 19, 2008, at 5:12 , Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Also, could you comment how does 2.3 and 3.0 relate to the non- OLPC version
announced in earlier post "A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XO environments".
The new non-OLPC version (Squeakland-Etoys) will based on Etoys 3.0, but besides the version number, Etoys 3.0 will accumulate incremental changes from Etoys 2.3, so, there aren't too big differences.
3.0 really is only an incremental step over 2.3, it could as well have been named 2.4. The reason to go with 3.0 was simply because we wanted a new sources file (EtoysV3.sources). We do not expect to introduce major incompatibilities or even features in this line of development. It has to go stable now. Contributions from the community are welcome, but the core team will not add features. There certainly will be improvements, one biggie is better international text rendering, another restoration of media playback, but from a user's point of view Etoys can be considered pretty much feature- complete.
I know feature creep is easy but here are a few items I have thought would be great:
-Some sort of scripting access to Journal files so one can build media players (slideshows, music player etc) without internalizing the files.
-Ogg Theora video seems to be the format of the Recording Activity so we should support that.
-Diego's Image Processing (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2411) and since there is no photo enhancement / adjusting activity I know of it is quite useful.
-Export of pictures to Journal
-Enhance the sound and music tools in the image so they look and feel and behave better.
-Skeleton (http://languagegame.org:8888/ggame/11) and further enhance the spread sheet and animation
Faster project loading could make diverse activities possible by quick loading of features.
Did I forget anything ? :-)
Karl
On Feb 19, 2008, at 12:27 , Karl wrote:
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Feb 19, 2008, at 5:12 , Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Also, could you comment how does 2.3 and 3.0 relate to the non- OLPC version
announced in earlier post "A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XO environments".
The new non-OLPC version (Squeakland-Etoys) will based on Etoys 3.0, but besides the version number, Etoys 3.0 will accumulate incremental changes from Etoys 2.3, so, there aren't too big differences.
3.0 really is only an incremental step over 2.3, it could as well have been named 2.4. The reason to go with 3.0 was simply because we wanted a new sources file (EtoysV3.sources). We do not expect to introduce major incompatibilities or even features in this line of development. It has to go stable now. Contributions from the community are welcome, but the core team will not add features. There certainly will be improvements, one biggie is better international text rendering, another restoration of media playback, but from a user's point of view Etoys can be considered pretty much feature- complete.
I know feature creep is easy but here are a few items I have thought would be great:
-Some sort of scripting access to Journal files so one can build media players (slideshows, music player etc) without internalizing the files.
That would be cool. Can you imagine how it should look like? We have not had that functionality in Etoys before (like, making a slideshow from a directory of files).
-Ogg Theora video seems to be the format of the Recording Activity so we should support that.
We hope to have a gstreamer plugin, which also would support Theora.
-Diego's Image Processing (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2411) and since there is no photo enhancement / adjusting activity I know of it is quite useful.
Did you test this on the XO? Might make a nice activity.
-Export of pictures to Journal
You can copy to the clipboard and add it to the journal from there.
-Enhance the sound and music tools in the image so they look and feel and behave better.
Who could work on that? But it would be great, yes.
-Skeleton (http://languagegame.org:8888/ggame/11) and further enhance the spread sheet and animation
That would be cool as a project, as well as ODECo.
Faster project loading could make diverse activities possible by quick loading of features.
That's stuff I wouldn't count as "new feature". And Luke seems to be onto something there ...
Did I forget anything ? :-)
Certainly, and me too ;)
- Bert -
2008/2/19, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
On Feb 19, 2008, at 12:27 , Karl wrote:
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Feb 19, 2008, at 5:12 , Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Also, could you comment how does 2.3 and 3.0 relate to the non- OLPC version
announced in earlier post "A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XO environments".
The new non-OLPC version (Squeakland-Etoys) will based on Etoys 3.0, but besides the version number, Etoys 3.0 will accumulate incremental changes from Etoys 2.3, so, there aren't too big differences.
3.0 really is only an incremental step over 2.3, it could as well have been named 2.4. The reason to go with 3.0 was simply because we wanted a new sources file (EtoysV3.sources). We do not expect to introduce major incompatibilities or even features in this line of development. It has to go stable now. Contributions from the community are welcome, but the core team will not add features. There certainly will be improvements, one biggie is better international text rendering, another restoration of media playback, but from a user's point of view Etoys can be considered pretty much feature- complete.
I know feature creep is easy but here are a few items I have thought would be great:
-Some sort of scripting access to Journal files so one can build media players (slideshows, music player etc) without internalizing the files.
That would be cool. Can you imagine how it should look like? We have not had that functionality in Etoys before (like, making a slideshow from a directory of files).
-Ogg Theora video seems to be the format of the Recording Activity so we should support that.
We hope to have a gstreamer plugin, which also would support Theora.
Why not a compiled plugin for Ogg/Theora so it is portable to other plateform as well for Mac and Windows. Otherwise the use of Ogg/Theora will be very limited as non portable. Please considerer it :)
In our pedagogical center, I have a planed presentation of Etoys to teacher on May, on Mac OSX. I know teacher will ask me about video...
Hilaire
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
retty much feature- complete.
I know feature creep is easy but here are a few items I have thought would be great:
-Some sort of scripting access to Journal files so one can build media players (slideshows, music player etc) without internalizing the files.
That would be cool. Can you imagine how it should look like? We have not had that functionality in Etoys before (like, making a slideshow from a directory of files).
My thought was to add a category to Holders which would look something like Add Journal entry named:(name) Add all Journal entries:(picture, movie or sound) (I'm not sure text would make any sense here) Add all Journal entries named (name + wildcard)(If the I have a bunch of entries named similarly eg: 'Picture 1', 'Picture 2') Add all Journal entries:(picture, movie or sound) from date:(aDate or several dates or time span) ( I have to look into the use case here but dates could be like from January 1 to January 10, a year etc )
I have not grokked Journal yet, so this could take some time :-) All references to Journal entries should be freed when a project is saved and looked up again when the project is loaded or run.
-Ogg Theora video seems to be the format of the Recording Activity so we should support that.
We hope to have a gstreamer plugin, which also would support Theora.
Cool
-Diego's Image Processing (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2411) and since there is no photo enhancement / adjusting activity I know of it is quite useful.
Did you test this on the XO? Might make a nice activity.
I have not tested it yet. I did test a picture warper from SqueakMap though and that was a lot of fun, you can make long nose, crocked eyes etc
-Export of pictures to Journal
You can copy to the clipboard and add it to the journal from there.
Ok, I have had not been able to add images and sounds from the clipboard to Squeak. Is it a known issue ?
-Enhance the sound and music tools in the image so they look and feel and behave better.
Who could work on that? But it would be great, yes.
I have been looking, not much progress yet.
-Skeleton (http://languagegame.org:8888/ggame/11) and further enhance the spread sheet and animation
That would be cool as a project, as well as ODECo.
Yes
Faster project loading could make diverse activities possible by quick loading of features.
That's stuff I wouldn't count as "new feature". And Luke seems to be onto something there ...
That is good.
Karl
Did I forget anything ? :-)
Certainly, and me too ;)
- Bert -
Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
On Feb 19, 2008, at 21:05 , karl wrote:
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
retty much feature- complete.
I know feature creep is easy but here are a few items I have thought would be great:
-Some sort of scripting access to Journal files so one can build media players (slideshows, music player etc) without internalizing the files.
That would be cool. Can you imagine how it should look like? We have not had that functionality in Etoys before (like, making a slideshow from a directory of files).
My thought was to add a category to Holders which would look something like Add Journal entry named:(name) Add all Journal entries:(picture, movie or sound) (I'm not sure text would make any sense here) Add all Journal entries named (name + wildcard)(If the I have a bunch of entries named similarly eg: 'Picture 1', 'Picture 2') Add all Journal entries:(picture, movie or sound) from date:(aDate or several dates or time span) ( I have to look into the use case here but dates could be like from January 1 to January 10, a year etc )
I have not grokked Journal yet, so this could take some time :-) All references to Journal entries should be freed when a project is saved and looked up again when the project is loaded or run.
To me this seems outside the scope of Etoys. It would certainly be useful to a Smalltalk programmer, but Etoys works more in the concrete rather than the abstract. To make a slide show in Etoys I'd rather drop all the images I need into a book one by one.
Now the interaction may be awkward here, which is more a fault of Sugar and the Journal, but should we really work around it by implementing a nicer Journal view in Etoys? Well, maybe we should indeed. Let's see what you come up with - I'd probably implement a Journal morph first and then add tile script features to it.
You can copy to the clipboard and add it to the journal from there.
Ok, I have had not been able to add images and sounds from the clipboard to Squeak. Is it a known issue ?
No - this should work. I can drag an image from Browse into the frame, switch to Squeak, and drag it out of the frame into Squeak. Have not tested with audio lately. If you find this not working, please file bugs.
- Bert -
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Feb 19, 2008, at 21:05 , karl wrote:
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
retty much feature- complete.
I know feature creep is easy but here are a few items I have thought would be great:
-Some sort of scripting access to Journal files so one can build media players (slideshows, music player etc) without internalizing the files.
That would be cool. Can you imagine how it should look like? We have not had that functionality in Etoys before (like, making a slideshow from a directory of files).
My thought was to add a category to Holders which would look something like Add Journal entry named:(name) Add all Journal entries:(picture, movie or sound) (I'm not sure text would make any sense here) Add all Journal entries named (name + wildcard)(If the I have a bunch of entries named similarly eg: 'Picture 1', 'Picture 2') Add all Journal entries:(picture, movie or sound) from date:(aDate or several dates or time span) ( I have to look into the use case here but dates could be like from January 1 to January 10, a year etc )
I have not grokked Journal yet, so this could take some time :-) All references to Journal entries should be freed when a project is saved and looked up again when the project is loaded or run.
To me this seems outside the scope of Etoys. It would certainly be useful to a Smalltalk programmer, but Etoys works more in the concrete rather than the abstract. To make a slide show in Etoys I'd rather drop all the images I need into a book one by one.
Yes, I know. My reason is more of being able to build media players without copying or duplicating files. It also easier to maintain one list of media in the journal than duplicate it in Squeak.
Now the interaction may be awkward here, which is more a fault of Sugar and the Journal, but should we really work around it by implementing a nicer Journal view in Etoys? Well, maybe we should indeed. Let's see what you come up with - I'd probably implement a Journal morph first and then add tile script features to it.
I think we can etoyify(tm) the interaction with the Journal :-)
You can copy to the clipboard and add it to the journal from there.
Ok, I have had not been able to add images and sounds from the clipboard to Squeak. Is it a known issue ?
No - this should work. I can drag an image from Browse into the frame, switch to Squeak, and drag it out of the frame into Squeak. Have not tested with audio lately. If you find this not working, please file bugs.
I see the problems with all items from clipboard. When I drag out from the frame the arrow cursor changes but no item is added to Squeak. I'll make a bug report.
Karl
On Feb 23, 2008, at 8:29 , karl wrote:
karl wrote:
I have not grokked Journal yet, so this could take some time :-)
Journal/ DBus stuff is really evasive. Do anyone have a example of how to open a image or sound from Journal ?
| objs obj file form | objs := SugarLauncher current findJournalEntries: ({'mime_type'-># ('image/jpeg' 'image/png')} as: Dictionary). obj := objs first. file := SugarLauncher current getFile: (obj at: 'uid'). form := ImageReadWriter formFromStream: file. file close. form asMorph name: (obj at: 'title'); openInHand
- Bert -
Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On Feb 23, 2008, at 8:29 , karl wrote:
karl wrote:
I have not grokked Journal yet, so this could take some time :-)
Journal/ DBus stuff is really evasive. Do anyone have a example of how to open a image or sound from Journal ?
| objs obj file form | objs := SugarLauncher current findJournalEntries: ({'mime_type'-># ('image/jpeg' 'image/png')} as: Dictionary). obj := objs first. file := SugarLauncher current getFile: (obj at: 'uid'). form := ImageReadWriter formFromStream: file. file close. form asMorph name: (obj at: 'title'); openInHand
- Bert -
Thanks.I see now I was really on the wrong track Again, thanks :-)
Karl
Hi,
-Skeleton (http://languagegame.org:8888/ggame/11) and further enhance the spread sheet and animation
That would be cool as a project, as well as ODECo.
Skeleton is quite incomplete for serious use. But I am going to make up ODECo activity as .xo file.
Cheers, - Takashi
On 2008 February 19, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
I wasn't clear about it, sorry.
All projects made in Etoys 2.3 and before will open in etoys 3.0. If not, it is a bug.
ok good.
What I was referring to in the previous paragraph was the Smalltalk code and Smalltalk objects created from do its.
So, basically, don't worry about it.
:)
Also, could you comment how does 2.3 and 3.0 relate to the non-OLPC version announced in earlier post "A new experimental version of OLPC image for non-XO environments".
The new non-OLPC version (Squeakland-Etoys) will based on Etoys 3.0, but besides the version number, Etoys 3.0 will accumulate incremental changes from Etoys 2.3, so, there aren't too big differences.
thanks
Also, which of the above (2.3, 3.0, non-olpc) are you most interested for people to test? :)
On a platform other than XO, please test OLPC-Etoysyymmdd.zip. On XO, generally, keep up with OLPC's latest development version. (Or the latest stable version, depending on your use case.)
I will try OLPC-Etoys on non-OLPC to see how it differs from my XO, and also try to import/eport projects between them.
Thanks for your clarifications!
Milan
Sorry for all the questions, I am just curious (and have some limited time to test if required)
Thank you for asking, actually! Hopefully this makes it clearer.
-- Yoshiki _______________________________________________ Etoys mailing list Etoys@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/etoys
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Bert Freudenberg -
Hilaire Fernandes -
karl -
Karl
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Milan Zimmermann -
Takashi Yamamiya -
Yoshiki Ohshima