Yoshiki, et al,
The current holdup is that I'm trying to get two different types of authentication to co-exist on the website .... form-based (login page) and HTTP basic (username/password).
The rest of the website uses the former and the WebDAV stuff in Etoys uses the latter. I'm trying a few different things to get them to co- exist in the same host, later I'll create a new host just for the WebDAV.
The key to understand what I'm doing here is that I want WebDAV to use the same account information as the rest of the website, so you can signup on the website and use your username/password within Etoys.
You can try testing now . . . I've turned authentication to basic for now on the main website, which will only affect admin users for now (a dialog box appears instead of the login page).
A few points about the way it currently works within Etoys.
1. I'd much prefer a login box with both username and password than a separate prompt for username and password.
2. I'd skip the second username box for "Squeakland Showcase" . . . just assume "etoys" unless someone has already logged in by clicking "My Squeakland".
3. There's no indication of a failed login, it simply shows a blank list ... (try typing random stuff after clicking "My Squeakland" ... also try your website username and password)
4. there's no way to try your login again (as if you type your password wrong) . . . it just uses the old wrong password ... you have to quit Etoys and try again
5. I keep having to give my account name as I drill down into the directory hierachy in "Squeakland Showcase"
6. If I start by clicking "Squeakland Showcase", I have to give my username three times before I get to my password
7. The personal directory isn't created if not found ... I'd rather only create them when the user uploads something for the first time (otherwise we'll have more dirs than we need). I can do this with a servlet, but it would be nice to use WebDAV instead, if possible.
8. (optional, SQ-325) A button called "login" in the keep and load box, probably in the bottom left. This would let users explicitly login (replace it with their username once logged in)
9. (optional, SQ-326) A button on the login box that said "Signup" (it's free!), which led to a dialog box that had:
Username
Password
Password Again
First Name
Last Name
Tell us about yourself (with text box)
See the issue for Java code that handles the signup . . . should be clear how it's done so you can translate to Squeak.
Anyway, I have to remedy the dual-authentication problem soon.
Take care, Tim
-- Timothy Falconer Immuexa Corporation http://immuexa.com 610-797-3100
On Sep 4, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Yoshiki, et al,
The current holdup is that I'm trying to get two different types of authentication to co-exist on the website .... form-based (login page) and HTTP basic (username/password).
The rest of the website uses the former and the WebDAV stuff in Etoys uses the latter. I'm trying a few different things to get them to co-exist in the same host, later I'll create a new host just for the WebDAV.
The key to understand what I'm doing here is that I want WebDAV to use the same account information as the rest of the website, so you can signup on the website and use your username/password within Etoys.
You can try testing now . . . I've turned authentication to basic for now on the main website, which will only affect admin users for now (a dialog box appears instead of the login page).
A few points about the way it currently works within Etoys.
- I'd much prefer a login box with both username and password than
a separate prompt for username and password.
- I'd skip the second username box for "Squeakland Showcase" . . .
just assume "etoys" unless someone has already logged in by clicking "My Squeakland".
- There's no indication of a failed login, it simply shows a blank
list ... (try typing random stuff after clicking "My Squeakland" ... also try your website username and password)
- there's no way to try your login again (as if you type your
password wrong) . . . it just uses the old wrong password ... you have to quit Etoys and try again
- I keep having to give my account name as I drill down into the
directory hierachy in "Squeakland Showcase"
- If I start by clicking "Squeakland Showcase", I have to give my
username three times before I get to my password
- The personal directory isn't created if not found ... I'd rather
only create them when the user uploads something for the first time (otherwise we'll have more dirs than we need). I can do this with a servlet, but it would be nice to use WebDAV instead, if possible.
- (optional, SQ-325) A button called "login" in the keep and load
box, probably in the bottom left. This would let users explicitly login (replace it with their username once logged in)
- (optional, SQ-326) A button on the login box that said
"Signup" (it's free!), which led to a dialog box that had:
Username
Password
Password Again
First Name
Last Name
Tell us about yourself (with text box)
See the issue for Java code that handles the signup . . . should be clear how it's done so you can translate to Squeak.
Ah, this may help ... file-in the attached changeset from Yoshiki, and "do" the following code:
Utilities authorName: nil.
d _ DAVMultiUserServerDirectory on: 'http://squeakland.org/webdav/'. d altUrl: 'http://squeakland.org/webdav/'. d moniker: 'My Squeakland'. d acceptsUploads: true. d setupSelector: #setupPersonalDirectory:. ServerDirectory inImageServers at: 'My Squeakland' put: d.
d _ DAVMultiUserServerDirectory on: 'http://squeakland.org/webdav/'. d altUrl: 'http://squeakland.org/webdav/'. d moniker: 'Squeakland Showcase'. d user: 'etoys'. d password: 'kaeuqs'. d useDefaultAccount: true. d acceptsUploads: true. ServerDirectory inImageServers at: 'Squeakland Showcase' put: d.
At Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:52:56 -0400, Timothy Falconer wrote:
On Sep 4, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Yoshiki, et al,
The current holdup is that I'm trying to get two different types of authentication to co-exist on the website .... form-based (login page) and HTTP basic (username/password).
The rest of the website uses the former and the WebDAV stuff in Etoys uses the latter. I'm trying a few different things to get them to co-exist in the same host, later I'll create a new host just for the WebDAV.
The key to understand what I'm doing here is that I want WebDAV to use the same account information as the rest of the website, so you can signup on the website and use your username/password within Etoys.
You can try testing now . . . I've turned authentication to basic for now on the main website, which will only affect admin users for now (a dialog box appears instead of the login page).
A few points about the way it currently works within Etoys.
- I'd much prefer a login box with both username and password than
a separate prompt for username and password.
- I'd skip the second username box for "Squeakland Showcase" . . .
just assume "etoys" unless someone has already logged in by clicking "My Squeakland".
- There's no indication of a failed login, it simply shows a blank
list ... (try typing random stuff after clicking "My Squeakland" ... also try your website username and password)
- there's no way to try your login again (as if you type your
password wrong) . . . it just uses the old wrong password ... you have to quit Etoys and try again
- I keep having to give my account name as I drill down into the
directory hierachy in "Squeakland Showcase"
- If I start by clicking "Squeakland Showcase", I have to give my
username three times before I get to my password
- The personal directory isn't created if not found ... I'd rather
only create them when the user uploads something for the first time (otherwise we'll have more dirs than we need). I can do this with a servlet, but it would be nice to use WebDAV instead, if possible.
- (optional, SQ-325) A button called "login" in the keep and load
box, probably in the bottom left. This would let users explicitly login (replace it with their username once logged in)
- (optional, SQ-326) A button on the login box that said
"Signup" (it's free!), which led to a dialog box that had:
Username
Password
Password Again
First Name
Last Name
Tell us about yourself (with text box)
See the issue for Java code that handles the signup . . . should be clear how it's done so you can translate to Squeak.
Ah, this may help ... file-in the attached changeset from Yoshiki, and "do" the following code:
Can you elaborate what you meant by "this may help"? Which part of what you described above is helped?
In any case, before making the actual uploading and login works, talking about tweaking UI may not be the priority.
-- Yoshiki
Hi, Is this logging-into-showcase-from-etoys the set of steps and information any casual user must take before they can upload a project to the showcase? Do you expect children to do this?
I am concerned about the amount of information asked for that includes first and last names and email address and the open-ended "tell us about yourself". If this process is for adults, ignore the rest of this note.
If this process is for children, the site's request for information should consider the age of the child and the child's privacy and safety. And, further what will be done to make sure this information remains private?
My concern is that Squeakland should not be a venue through which young children can be found and/or exploited by contact with strangers through the site. I do not allow my students to include information that would allow unknown people in the general public to identify them. Perhaps mine is excessive concern but years of working with students has taught me to be very careful. Regards, Kathleen
---- Original message ----
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:34:40 -0700 From: Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki@vpri.org Subject: Re: [etoys-dev] logging into showcase from etoys To: etoys-dev dev etoys-dev@squeakland.org
At Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:52:56 -0400, Timothy Falconer wrote:
On Sep 4, 2009, at 11:47 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Yoshiki, et al,
The current holdup is that I'm trying to get two different types of authentication to co-exist on the website .... form-based (login page) and HTTP basic (username/password).
The rest of the website uses the former and the WebDAV stuff in Etoys uses the latter. I'm trying a few different things to get them to co-exist in the same host, later I'll create a new host just for the WebDAV.
The key to understand what I'm doing here is that I want WebDAV to use the same account information as the rest of the website, so you can signup on the website and use your username/password within Etoys.
You can try testing now . . . I've turned authentication to basic for now on the main website, which will only affect admin users for now (a dialog box appears instead of the login page).
A few points about the way it currently works within Etoys.
- I'd much prefer a login box with both username and password than
a separate prompt for username and password.
- I'd skip the second username box for "Squeakland Showcase" . . .
just assume "etoys" unless someone has already logged in by clicking "My Squeakland".
- There's no indication of a failed login, it simply shows a blank
list ... (try typing random stuff after clicking "My Squeakland" ... also try your website username and password)
- there's no way to try your login again (as if you type your
password wrong) . . . it just uses the old wrong password ... you have to quit Etoys and try again
- I keep having to give my account name as I drill down into the
directory hierachy in "Squeakland Showcase"
- If I start by clicking "Squeakland Showcase", I have to give my
username three times before I get to my password
- The personal directory isn't created if not found ... I'd rather
only create them when the user uploads something for the first time (otherwise we'll have more dirs than we need). I can do this with a servlet, but it would be nice to use WebDAV instead, if possible.
- (optional, SQ-325) A button called "login" in the keep and load
box, probably in the bottom left. This would let users explicitly login (replace it with their username once logged in)
- (optional, SQ-326) A button on the login box that said
"Signup" (it's free!), which led to a dialog box that had:
Username
Password
Password Again
First Name
Last Name
Tell us about yourself (with text box)
See the issue for Java code that handles the signup . . . should be clear how it's done so you can translate to Squeak.
Ah, this may help ... file-in the attached changeset from Yoshiki, and "do" the following code:
Can you elaborate what you meant by "this may help"? Which part of what you described above is helped?
In any case, before making the actual uploading and login works, talking about tweaking UI may not be the priority.
-- Yoshiki _______________________________________________ etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
At Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:37:10 -0500 (CDT), kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi, Is this logging-into-showcase-from-etoys the set of steps and information any casual user must take before they can upload a project to the showcase? Do you expect children to do this?
As Tim wrote, many fields are optional. But an accnount should be a requirement to upload a project to a world visible server.
But as I wrote on a ticket on JIRA, this sign up process involves a lot of interaction such as when the new user tries to use a already-taken name, etc. Tim sometime ago suggested to launch a browser or at least show the URL of the registration page. We probably pursue that direction.
-- Yoshiki
On Sep 5, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
At Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:37:10 -0500 (CDT), kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi, Is this logging-into-showcase-from-etoys the set of steps and information any casual user must take before they can upload a project to the showcase? Do you expect children to do this?
As Tim wrote, many fields are optional. But an accnount should be a requirement to upload a project to a world visible server.
But as I wrote on a ticket on JIRA, this sign up process involves a lot of interaction such as when the new user tries to use a already-taken name, etc. Tim sometime ago suggested to launch a browser or at least show the URL of the registration page. We probably pursue that direction.
The signup procedure I put in JIRA already checks for an already-taken name.
We have other client software that signs up in an identical manner. It's really just a matter of rewriting that code.
Tim
At Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:45:37 -0400, Timothy Falconer wrote:
On Sep 5, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
At Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:37:10 -0500 (CDT), kharness@illinois.edu wrote:
Hi, Is this logging-into-showcase-from-etoys the set of steps and information any casual user must take before they can upload a project to the showcase? Do you expect children to do this?
As Tim wrote, many fields are optional. But an accnount should be a requirement to upload a project to a world visible server.
But as I wrote on a ticket on JIRA, this sign up process involves a lot of interaction such as when the new user tries to use a already-taken name, etc. Tim sometime ago suggested to launch a browser or at least show the URL of the registration page. We probably pursue that direction.
The signup procedure I put in JIRA already checks for an already-taken name.
We have other client software that signs up in an identical manner. It's really just a matter of rewriting that code.
Are you talking about the Java code snippet at http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-326, or what JIRA does? From the code snippet, I cannot tell what will happen when the user name is already taken on the client side, and what to do.
Pursueing the direction launching a browser is not what you like?
-- Yoshiki
Are you talking about the Java code snippet at http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-326, or what JIRA does? From the code snippet, I cannot tell what will happen when the user name is already taken on the client side, and what to do.
Pursueing the direction launching a browser is not what you like?
-- Yoshiki
This is a simple HTML post, which either works or it doesn't (see code for how to determine).
When it doesn't work show the signup dialog again, with "Please pick another username" (either as an alert box before showing the signup box, or as replacement text for the label at the top of the signup box.
If it does work, just show the login box, allowing them to login right then.
We could launch a browser if you like (especially if the signup box will take too much time). Most apps that do this sort of thing allow you to signup within the app, and I generally favor this when it happens.
URL for signup is: http://squeakland.org/action/accountAdd
On 08.09.2009, at 14:28, Timothy Falconer wrote:
That form looks odd. It does not have a title to say what it is. No explanation at all. I thought the consensus was to have just a nickname, email, and password? Also, the inverted checkboxes in the bottom feel sneaky, why not have them checked by default and remove the "don't"? And "Start Over" / "Save Changes" do not exactly sound like this is creating an account - "Clear Fields" / "Create Account" would better fit what I assume is done.
Or am I on the wrong page?
- Bert -
I haven't written the happy text yet.
On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:47 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 14:28, Timothy Falconer wrote:
That form looks odd. It does not have a title to say what it is. No explanation at all. I thought the consensus was to have just a nickname, email, and password? Also, the inverted checkboxes in the bottom feel sneaky, why not have them checked by default and remove the "don't"? And "Start Over" / "Save Changes" do not exactly sound like this is creating an account - "Clear Fields" / "Create Account" would better fit what I assume is done.
Or am I on the wrong page?
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
On Sep 8, 2009, at 8:47 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
I thought the consensus was to have just a nickname, email, and password?
Actually, this is the way it looks when you currently subscribe to the newsletter. The tell us about yourself is very useful, and nearly everyone uses it. The information doesn't appear anywhere on the website.
I have to enable the username / password fields, which aren't done on the main website. It'll still work from within Etoys though. (the fields are simply hidden from view).
Also, the inverted checkboxes in the bottom feel sneaky, why not have them checked by default and remove the "don't"? And "Start Over" / "Save Changes" do not exactly sound like this is creating an account - "Clear Fields" / "Create Account" would better fit what I assume is done.
Yes, the checkboxes are reversed. It's an artifact from an earlier technical glitch . . . I can still see if it's relevant. No sneakiness implied. BTW, these boxes don't even show on the public subscribe to newsletter page, so you're seeing stuff that no one yet sees.
Or am I on the wrong page?
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Unsubscribe is at the bottom of all mailings, though unsubscribing from the website (profile page?) is also helpful.
On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 15:08, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Actually, this is the way it looks when you currently subscribe to the newsletter.
On the newsletter subscription page there is an explanation. Okay. Would be nice to add unsubscribe instructions there, too.
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
Actually, you *can* unsubscribe from the profile page already (though not on the public site yet, unless you're an admin).
It's under "showcase / account" ... but only for admins.
Tim
On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Unsubscribe is at the bottom of all mailings, though unsubscribing from the website (profile page?) is also helpful.
On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 15:08, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Actually, this is the way it looks when you currently subscribe to the newsletter.
On the newsletter subscription page there is an explanation. Okay. Would be nice to add unsubscribe instructions there, too.
- Bert -
etoys-dev mailing list etoys-dev@squeakland.org http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
-- Timothy Falconer Waveplace Foundation http://waveplace.com 610-797-3100
On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Actually, you *can* unsubscribe from the profile page already (though not on the public site yet, unless you're an admin).
It's under "showcase / account" ... but only for admins.
Tim
On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Unsubscribe is at the bottom of all mailings, though unsubscribing from the website (profile page?) is also helpful.
On Sep 8, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 15:08, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Actually, this is the way it looks when you currently subscribe to the newsletter.
On the newsletter subscription page there is an explanation. Okay. Would be nice to add unsubscribe instructions there, too.
Food for thought . . . I'm leaning towards the "create account" hyperlink now. Also, the login, within the Keep dialog, though this likely wouldn't work as well for us because we use the same dialog for saving files locally.
On 08.09.2009, at 18:47, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Food for thought . . . I'm leaning towards the "create account" hyperlink now.
Keeping as much on the server as possible seems advisable indeed.
The "create account" button would require a way to open a URL in the user's browser though. There is no such function in Etoys yet.
We could ship the ScratchPlugin, it provides this IIRC. Including it in Etoys and the Squeak VM has been on the todo list for a while anyway:
http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-98
Wouldn't work in Sugar though. Maybe the simplest would be a message like "please go to squeakland.org and click '...' to create an account."
- Bert -
On Sep 8, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 18:47, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Food for thought . . . I'm leaning towards the "create account" hyperlink now.
Keeping as much on the server as possible seems advisable indeed.
The "create account" button would require a way to open a URL in the user's browser though. There is no such function in Etoys yet.
We could ship the ScratchPlugin, it provides this IIRC. Including it in Etoys and the Squeak VM has been on the todo list for a while anyway:
http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-98
Wouldn't work in Sugar though. Maybe the simplest would be a message like "please go to squeakland.org and click '...' to create an account."
What does Scratch do for their OLPC activity?
Tim
On 08.09.2009, at 20:41, Timothy Falconer wrote:
On Sep 8, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 18:47, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Food for thought . . . I'm leaning towards the "create account" hyperlink now.
Keeping as much on the server as possible seems advisable indeed.
The "create account" button would require a way to open a URL in the user's browser though. There is no such function in Etoys yet.
We could ship the ScratchPlugin, it provides this IIRC. Including it in Etoys and the Squeak VM has been on the todo list for a while anyway:
http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-98
Wouldn't work in Sugar though. Maybe the simplest would be a message like "please go to squeakland.org and click '...' to create an account."
What does Scratch do for their OLPC activity?
There is no official Scratch release for Sugar. They don't even save to the Journal yet.
- Bert -
On 2009-09-08 20:11, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 18:47, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Food for thought . . . I'm leaning towards the "create account" hyperlink now.
Keeping as much on the server as possible seems advisable indeed.
The "create account" button would require a way to open a URL in the user's browser though. There is no such function in Etoys yet.
We could ship the ScratchPlugin, it provides this IIRC. Including it in Etoys and the Squeak VM has been on the todo list for a while anyway:
http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-98
Wouldn't work in Sugar though. Maybe the simplest would be a message like "please go to squeakland.org and click '...' to create an account."
- Bert -
Scamper is not a option ? I guess if the form to fill in was on a _really_ simple html page it could be done.... ;-)
Karl
On 2009-09-08 20:11, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 08.09.2009, at 18:47, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Food for thought . . . I'm leaning towards the "create account" hyperlink now.
Keeping as much on the server as possible seems advisable indeed.
The "create account" button would require a way to open a URL in the user's browser though. There is no such function in Etoys yet.
We could ship the ScratchPlugin, it provides this IIRC. Including it in Etoys and the Squeak VM has been on the todo list for a while anyway:
http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-98
Wouldn't work in Sugar though. Maybe the simplest would be a message like "please go to squeakland.org and click '...' to create an account."
I guess the Scamper is not up to date ;-) Karl
At Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:47:58 -0400, Timothy Falconer wrote:
The rest of the website uses the former and the WebDAV stuff in Etoys uses the latter. I'm trying a few different things to get them to co-exist in the same host, later I'll create a new host just for the WebDAV.
Hmm, ok. with some equivalent of "mods", the basic auth can go through your mechanism?
The key to understand what I'm doing here is that I want WebDAV to use the same account information as the rest of the website, so you can signup on the website and use your username/password within Etoys.
Sure.
You can try testing now . . . I've turned authentication to basic for now on the main website, which will only affect admin users for now (a dialog box appears instead of the login page).
Hmm, what and how am I supposed to test?
-- Yoshiki
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Karl Ramberg -
kharness＠illinois.edu -
Timothy Falconer -
Timothy Falconer -
Yoshiki Ohshima