Milan, (Now etoys@laptop.org is included.)
Attached is list of things I found and commented on (OO format), and also the crash log.
I started looking at the issues in the file. Below is my comment:
B2. Text and Images in Tools Flap seems cut when first started.
We won't have Tools Flap in eToyFriendly mode with eToys flaps. Somewhat lower priority.
B3. Loading Something using SqueakMap Package Loader: Message about Squeak MasterServer is running a different version (2.2) ...etc.
At one point, probably we should make sure that SqueakMap and Monticello works. But again, the primary goal is to provide good eToys experience. (Thank you for testing!)
B5. Installing RemoteFrameBuffer into OLPC image (updated) from SqueakMap, I received a MNU "SystemDictionary changes" around SMDefaultInstaller>>fileIntoChangesetNamed:fromStream
Ok.
B6. Error Not Indexable: Try TranscriptShow: someNumber,someNumber bombs- But CANNOT duplicate, Squeak log attached.
Thank you. I'll look at it, but it would be nice if we can reproduce...
B7. I think the following will be probably unreadable on OLPC Small Screen: (Publish Project and Save Project on File.)
The first patch for this problem is already in the update stream. But, Takashi will look at it and clean it up.
B8. (script in text mode.)
I tried it and seems to be doing the right thing here. Are you certain that you did put "^" in the textually coded script?
B9. I created a project completely in OLPC image with latest updates. Saved the project and put it on a website here: http://squeakers.ca:9091...
At this point, we aren't keen to make it possible to load a project from the OLPC image into the Squeakland image. It would make sense to modify the Squeakland image. (A radical idea is to make OLPC image with some font modifications *be* the next Squeakland image, but there are pros and cons.)
N1. Menu simplification.
The first cut is in the update stream. Again, a typical user won't see the World menu. Some useful stuff in the World menu were moved to the red-halo menu of the World.
N2. Source file.
It should be SqueakV3.sources. Basically, we should lobby for the space on the flash to put it.
N3. capitalization of names on menus.
Yes. Since there are translations for other languages, it would be wise to provide the English translation from Squeakly language.
Thank you!
-- Yoshiki
On 29.09.2006, at 02:05, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
N2. Source file.
It should be SqueakV3.sources. Basically, we should lobby for the space on the flash to put it.
Dan did a quite nice compression scheme for the .sources (compression to 1/4 of the size). This was done for the Weather station flash based system. Code is on SqueakMap and in the image (3.9, maybe 3.8, too), but slightly broken. Should not be too hard to fix.
Marcus
Marcus,
N2. Source file.
It should be SqueakV3.sources. Basically, we should lobby for the space on the flash to put it.
Dan did a quite nice compression scheme for the .sources (compression to 1/4 of the size). This was done for the Weather station flash based system. Code is on SqueakMap and in the image (3.9, maybe 3.8, too), but slightly broken. Should not be too hard to fix.
Thank you for reminding me of it. We don't know how much is the hard limit given to us (or its existence), but this would be a good option if we *need* to squeeze our stuff.
-- Yoshiki
Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
It should be SqueakV3.sources. Basically, we should lobby for the space on the flash to put it.
Dan did a quite nice compression scheme for the .sources (compression to 1/4 of the size). This was done for the Weather station flash based system. Code is on SqueakMap and in the image (3.9, maybe 3.8, too), but slightly broken. Should not be too hard to fix.
Thank you for reminding me of it. We don't know how much is the hard limit given to us (or its existence), but this would be a good option if we *need* to squeeze our stuff.
Note that the file system used on the internal Flash chip (jff2 or something like that) already does compression, so giving it a compressed file doesn't necessarily mean that fewer bytes will be used on the chip. It is best to actually test it and see what difference it makes.
-- Jecel
Thank you, Jecel,
Thank you for reminding me of it. We don't know how much is the hard limit given to us (or its existence), but this would be a good option if we *need* to squeeze our stuff.
Note that the file system used on the internal Flash chip (jff2 or something like that) already does compression, so giving it a compressed file doesn't necessarily mean that fewer bytes will be used on the chip. It is best to actually test it and see what difference it makes.
Ah, now I remember the similar discussion on the iPAQ's internal memory.
I haven't looked at Dan's implementation, but there may be some trade off between seek&read time and size, such as creating chunks rather than one flatly compressed file that may need to seek (just an idea...)
-- Yoshiki
Yoshiki,
Appreciate going through my list of notes, and I hope it did not take too much time, as most of them are fairly minor.
Over the weekend, I will spend some more time playing with the OLPC image, and also try to duplicate the crash, but it did look impossible so far (to duplicate). I spent about 6-8 intense hours building projects with it, and this was the only time it crashed, it does look pretty good!
A few notes on your comments inline:
On 2006 September 28 20:05, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
Milan, (Now etoys@laptop.org is included.)
Attached is list of things I found and commented on (OO format), and also the crash log.
I started looking at the issues in the file. Below is my comment:
B2. Text and Images in Tools Flap seems cut when first started.
We won't have Tools Flap in eToyFriendly mode with eToys flaps.
sounds good
Somewhat lower priority.
B3. Loading Something using SqueakMap Package Loader: Message about Squeak MasterServer is running a different version (2.2) ...etc.
At one point, probably we should make sure that SqueakMap and Monticello works. But again, the primary goal is to provide good eToys experience. (Thank you for testing!)
understand. It may take a while before users/students will cross beyond what is in the image to install new things (but hopefully it will not take too long :) )
B5. Installing RemoteFrameBuffer into OLPC image (updated) from SqueakMap, I received a MNU "SystemDictionary changes" around SMDefaultInstaller>>fileIntoChangesetNamed:fromStream
Ok.
I mostly ran SqueakMap FrameBuffer install because I wanted to run FrameBuffer server from Squeak and attach a client that run the 50% scaling. Probably not needed
B6. Error Not Indexable: Try TranscriptShow: someNumber,someNumber bombs- But CANNOT duplicate, Squeak log attached.
Thank you. I'll look at it, but it would be nice if we can reproduce...
I will try again .
B7. I think the following will be probably unreadable on OLPC Small Screen: (Publish Project and Save Project on File.)
The first patch for this problem is already in the update stream. But, Takashi will look at it and clean it up.
Thanks I will check this weekend.
B8. (script in text mode.)
I tried it and seems to be doing the right thing here. Are you certain that you did put "^" in the textually coded script?
Pretty sure the ^ was there, the missing "." made a difference if I remember, but I am not at that image now. - I will try again, can create a project and export if I can duplicate. Probably more of a interesting thing than a big deal anyway.
B9. I created a project completely in OLPC image with latest updates. Saved the project and put it on a website here: http://squeakers.ca:9091...
At this point, we aren't keen to make it possible to load a project from the OLPC image into the Squeakland image. It would make sense to modify the Squeakland image. (A radical idea is to make OLPC image with some font modifications *be* the next Squeakland image, but there are pros and cons.)
Sounds that you are thinking to keep OLPC stable and modify SqueakLand at some later point to enable import OLPC projects? that makes sense.
N1. Menu simplification.
The first cut is in the update stream. Again, a typical user won't see the World menu. Some useful stuff in the World menu were moved to the red-halo menu of the World.
Simpler menus are great. For a while, and still, menus were the single most confusing thing in Squeak for me .. too many long unorganized items .. but that's another story for another list. :(
N2. Source file.
It should be SqueakV3.sources. Basically, we should lobby for the space on the flash to put it.
Yes, I use V3 sources. I just ment to point out it was not in the zip. Sounds like it is not guaranteed the sources would make it on the laptop?
N3. capitalization of names on menus.
Yes. Since there are translations for other languages, it would be wise to provide the English translation from Squeakly language.
Yoshiki do you mean to make the menu sound more "english correct"?
Thanks for commenting, Milan
Thank you!
-- Yoshiki
etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Jecel Assumpcao Jr -
Marcus Denker -
Milan Zimmermann -
Yoshiki Ohshima