UI

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251 discussions

Re: [UI] Seaside and UI Enhancements??
by Bill Schwab 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

Adrian, Agreed, though I have less objection to the multiple packages and more objection to the lack (my fault as much as anyone's) of a script that automagically gets the most recent versions of the packages required to load it. If you have some spare time, please take a look at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6005 and add anything you think might be missing. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> adi(a)netstyle.ch 02/17/08 5:38 PM >>> I tested UIEnhancements with a stock 3.9 image. Unfortunately, the package depends on Package Universes, which depends on YAXO. So its not straightforward to load, but its doable if you know how. It would be nice to have just one Monticello package without dependencies... Cheers, Adrian On Feb 17, 2008, at 21:00 , Simon Kirk wrote: > > > Bill Schwab wrote: >> >> Are any of you using Seaside with Gary's UI Enhancements? It seems >> like >> it should be ok, but if there are any tricks to getting everything >> installed, time-saving pointers would be appreciated. I am giving an >> introductory presentation on Smalltalk and Seaside (very basic >> stuff), >> and prefer to have the improved GUI if at all possible. >> > > Hi Bill. > > Here at Pinesoft (where Gary works!) we're developing with Seaside > in dev > images (as in, Damien Cassou's dev images) with the UI enhancements > enabled. > I'm not sure what you mean by "with", do you just mean an image with > the UI > enhancements making it look pretty? > > If that's the case I'm not sure what issues there are, as afaicr > Seaside and > the UI enhancements are orthogonal. > > Cheers, > Simon > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Seaside-and-UI-Enhancements---tp15529989p15532405.html > Sent from the Squeak - UI mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring
by Bill Schwab 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Tim, Agreed, and then some. I would not be upset by a framework that can work down to the individual widget, but what you describe would give most of the benefits of host integration and very few of the hassles. In that, I am assuming (a safe bet I think) that Gary will ensure that the feel is sufficiently configurable that we will not need an outside framework to impose discipline re keyboard focus, etc. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 02/15/08 3:00 PM >>> Our basic intent when designing Ffenestri was to allow pretty much any usage. If you want to map a single SystemWindow level object to a host window then that would be good and would match most needs in typical applications. Don't forget to consider floating palette type windows as well - those that accompany a main window and provide a palette of tool icons etc. And menus could be implemented by opening a short lived small window; this might well be much simpler and more portable than trying to hook cleanly into every OS menu api, whilst allowing the menu to be taller than a small app. window if needed. tim -- tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Klingon Code Warrior:- 10) "This code is a piece of crap! You have no honor!" _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring
by Bill Schwab 16 Feb '08

16 Feb '08

Karl, I think one ultimately "fixes" these things by adding a parallel framework that is clean from the ground up. Along the way, the existing Morphic IDE provides the tools to get there. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> karl.ramberg(a)comhem.se 02/14/08 11:04 AM >>> Gary Chambers wrote: > Not planning any Tweak low-level stuff. Just a restructuring of the event > mechanism to allow both "world" based and individual (host) window based > opportunity. Pick-n-mix! > A few morphic issues come to mind: Keyboard focus stuff is messy and cause lots of errors. Dozens of preferences that nobody use or know what are for. The mix of AlignmentMorph and other morphs for doing layout stuff. And more and more Karl > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab >> Sent: 14 February 2008 2:08 PM >> To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> Subject: Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring >> >> >> Gary, >> >> Morphic works, there is not much else to say in its favor, and you have >> shown amazing flare for user interface implementation, so I tend to >> trust your judgement. That said, a couple of questions/comments: >> >> Are you thinking of multiple host windows as in allowing each system >> window to have its own host window, perhaps in it own morphic world >> running therein? I have *no* idea whether the world is >> good/bad/optional. Details aside, it could be nice to have that option. >> There are times when a single host window for the IDE is great, and >> times when it is unfortunate. Any system that emulates (and I am >> convinced that emulation is a good thing far more often than the >> mainstream would have us believe) should be able to give the user the >> choice to host in one window or many. Great idea. Like it a lot :) As >> an example of when I might want to use a single window, imagine a >> machine running multiple "deployed" Squeak images with some debugging >> and image re-saving as part of the plan. Intermingling tools in host >> windows might get very confusing; I have not done this, but I would >> expect to do so if I end up using Squeak on a large scale. Multiple >> host windows have myriad uses, all the more so when considering end >> users. >> >> You mentioned Tweak. I fear Tweak. It has some good ideas, but >> altering the compiler was (IMHO) a huge mistake. I could mention >> a_few_other_things that are not quite where_they_belong, but you get the >> idea. Build separate code-generating/editing tools (e.g. WindowBuilder >> on steroids) to provide the same functionality with an >> object-composition/code-based event system underneath the tools, and I'm >> all over it. Put another way, I like new things to be built in >> Smalltalk, not into it, unless there is no other way. However, I >> suspect you are proposing backward-compatible changes to Morphic events >> to enhance it, which is probably great. What do you have in mind? :) >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 846-1285 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >>>>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 02/11/08 11:01 AM >>> >>>>> >> Would anyone agree that a reorganisation of the Morphic event system >> would >> be useful? >> Just looking to perhaps transparently support use of multiple host >> windows. >> Kind of like, if an event has a tag of some kind that it is deferred to >> a >> registered handler, default would be as-is. A little bit Tweaky but just >> a >> start on the infrastructure. >> >> >> Gary. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UI mailing list >> UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UI mailing list >> UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui >> > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring
by Bill Schwab 15 Feb '08

15 Feb '08

Gary, Morphic works, there is not much else to say in its favor, and you have shown amazing flare for user interface implementation, so I tend to trust your judgement. That said, a couple of questions/comments: Are you thinking of multiple host windows as in allowing each system window to have its own host window, perhaps in it own morphic world running therein? I have *no* idea whether the world is good/bad/optional. Details aside, it could be nice to have that option. There are times when a single host window for the IDE is great, and times when it is unfortunate. Any system that emulates (and I am convinced that emulation is a good thing far more often than the mainstream would have us believe) should be able to give the user the choice to host in one window or many. Great idea. Like it a lot :) As an example of when I might want to use a single window, imagine a machine running multiple "deployed" Squeak images with some debugging and image re-saving as part of the plan. Intermingling tools in host windows might get very confusing; I have not done this, but I would expect to do so if I end up using Squeak on a large scale. Multiple host windows have myriad uses, all the more so when considering end users. You mentioned Tweak. I fear Tweak. It has some good ideas, but altering the compiler was (IMHO) a huge mistake. I could mention a_few_other_things that are not quite where_they_belong, but you get the idea. Build separate code-generating/editing tools (e.g. WindowBuilder on steroids) to provide the same functionality with an object-composition/code-based event system underneath the tools, and I'm all over it. Put another way, I like new things to be built in Smalltalk, not into it, unless there is no other way. However, I suspect you are proposing backward-compatible changes to Morphic events to enhance it, which is probably great. What do you have in mind? :) Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 02/11/08 11:01 AM >>> Would anyone agree that a reorganisation of the Morphic event system would be useful? Just looking to perhaps transparently support use of multiple host windows. Kind of like, if an event has a tag of some kind that it is deferred to a registered handler, default would be as-is. A little bit Tweaky but just a start on the infrastructure. Gary. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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UI Enhancements dependency Package Universes
by Adrian Lienhard 14 Feb '08

14 Feb '08

Hi, Pinesoft-Widgets depends on a Package Universes class. Would it be possible to remove this dependency so that one can load UI Enhancements into an image where no Package Universes is installed? Btw, great work! Cheers, Adrian

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RE: [UI] Mouse wheel
by Bill Schwab 04 Feb '08

04 Feb '08

Gary, Ok, the place to start is for me to double check my preferences. More to come. Thanks! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 02/04/08 6:01 AM >>> Odd, I get the expected behaviour (with mouseClickForKeyboardFocus enabled and mouseOverForKeyboardFocus disabled). > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab > Sent: 03 February 2008 12:32 AM > To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Subject: RE: [UI] Mouse wheel > > > Gary, > > I saw 285 and loaded that and fiddled around slightly. I made a point > of using the wheel to scroll panes in inactive windows interspersed with > typing in the active window, and that seems to work except when the > scrolling list is part of the active window. With the other traffic, I > suspect that a change to regain keyboard selection in the lists is being > enabled on mouse over (if only in/under the active windows) vs. after > transfer of focus. I see where you are going, but it essentially brings > back the "lists grab the focus" problem. > > IMHO, if a user wants to simply point at a list and have it grab the > focus for keyboard navigation, they should use a policy that changes > focus on mouse-over. As a click/tab to change focus type, I want the > focus to be independent of the mouse movement, and will click/tab to a > list that I want to navigate by keyboard. Hopefully it will suffice to > limit the navigation to the list with the focus. Reasonable? > > As always, thanks for working on this!!! > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/28/08 11:42 AM >>> > Load Pinesoft-Widgets-gvc.284 from SqueakSource and enjoy! > Was tricky to figure out but done nicely, I think. > If the VMs get arround to generating mouse wheel events natively > (rrather > than simulating with a keystroke) it is a small matter to support that > when/if that happens. > > Will await feedback before updating the Universe. > > Regards, Gary. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab > > Sent: 22 January 2008 3:21 AM > > To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > Subject: Re: [UI] Mouse wheel > > > > > > Gary, > > > > It is not terribly high on my priority list, but the more I work with > > Squeak, the more I notice that the way other apps handle the wheel > makes > > a LOT of sense. Given a choice, I would opt for solid keyboard focus > > every time. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > > University of Florida > > Department of Anesthesiology > > PO Box 100254 > > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > > >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/21/08 6:27 PM >>> > > I've looked at that, would be nice! Unfortunately, in Squeak, the > mouse > > wheel is simulated as keyboard events. It would require some hacking > to > > pick these up and send to the mouse focus instead. If there is > > sufficient interest I'll take a stab at it. > > > > Thanks. Gary. > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > From: Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > > To: <ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > > Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008, 20:45:13 GMT > > Subject: [UI] Mouse wheel > > Gary, > > > > I hope this is not a repeat, or worse yet reflective of my not having > > installed a new enough release, but _almost_ as much as I think > keyboard > > focus should be managed very carefully and independent of the mouse > > cursor location, I think the mouse wheel input should follow the mouse > > cursor, even so far as scrolling panes that are not active, and not > even > > part of the active shell. First, I just noticed Ubuntu, its graphical > > terminal, and OpenOffice do this to good effect (as just one example); > > second, if I am typing, mouse movement is probably made to avoid > visual > > distraction from the cursor, if I am turning the mouse wheel, it is > > almost certainly a deliberate action associated with the cursor > > location. Fair? > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > > University of Florida > > Department of Anesthesiology > > PO Box 100254 > > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UI mailing list > > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > > UI mailing list > > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UI mailing list > > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] Mouse wheel
by Bill Schwab 04 Feb '08

04 Feb '08

Gary, I saw 285 and loaded that and fiddled around slightly. I made a point of using the wheel to scroll panes in inactive windows interspersed with typing in the active window, and that seems to work except when the scrolling list is part of the active window. With the other traffic, I suspect that a change to regain keyboard selection in the lists is being enabled on mouse over (if only in/under the active windows) vs. after transfer of focus. I see where you are going, but it essentially brings back the "lists grab the focus" problem. IMHO, if a user wants to simply point at a list and have it grab the focus for keyboard navigation, they should use a policy that changes focus on mouse-over. As a click/tab to change focus type, I want the focus to be independent of the mouse movement, and will click/tab to a list that I want to navigate by keyboard. Hopefully it will suffice to limit the navigation to the list with the focus. Reasonable? As always, thanks for working on this!!! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/28/08 11:42 AM >>> Load Pinesoft-Widgets-gvc.284 from SqueakSource and enjoy! Was tricky to figure out but done nicely, I think. If the VMs get arround to generating mouse wheel events natively (rrather than simulating with a keystroke) it is a small matter to support that when/if that happens. Will await feedback before updating the Universe. Regards, Gary. > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Bill Schwab > Sent: 22 January 2008 3:21 AM > To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Subject: Re: [UI] Mouse wheel > > > Gary, > > It is not terribly high on my priority list, but the more I work with > Squeak, the more I notice that the way other apps handle the wheel makes > a LOT of sense. Given a choice, I would opt for solid keyboard focus > every time. > > Thanks! > > Bill > > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 01/21/08 6:27 PM >>> > I've looked at that, would be nice! Unfortunately, in Squeak, the mouse > wheel is simulated as keyboard events. It would require some hacking to > pick these up and send to the mouse focus instead. If there is > sufficient interest I'll take a stab at it. > > Thanks. Gary. > > ----- Original message ----- > From: Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > To: <ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008, 20:45:13 GMT > Subject: [UI] Mouse wheel > Gary, > > I hope this is not a repeat, or worse yet reflective of my not having > installed a new enough release, but _almost_ as much as I think keyboard > focus should be managed very carefully and independent of the mouse > cursor location, I think the mouse wheel input should follow the mouse > cursor, even so far as scrolling panes that are not active, and not even > part of the active shell. First, I just noticed Ubuntu, its graphical > terminal, and OpenOffice do this to good effect (as just one example); > second, if I am typing, mouse movement is probably made to avoid visual > distraction from the cursor, if I am turning the mouse wheel, it is > almost certainly a deliberate action associated with the cursor > location. Fair? > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Using keyboard on lists
by Damien Cassou 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Hi, without UIEnhancements loaded, I can easily select an item on any list if I type part of its label (open the world menu and type 'save'). With UIEnhancements, it does not work anymore if I use the #chooseFrom:* methods from UIManager. Can this be readded please? Bye -- Damien Cassou

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Re: [UI] Re: Promoting Squeak/Smalltalk
by Bill Schwab 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

Andreas, Some random thoughts: The standard (and not altogether unreasonable) answer to "no support for x on y" is "Want FFI on Solaris? Write it." You are correct in pointing out the deficiencies; "they" are correct in pointing out that "we" could help more. Sadly, I suspect many would help more if help were more aggressively accepted. I accept some blame for failing to make it easier to write certain apps. I really should put an MVP wrapper around some of the morphic chaos. Various things have distracted me, including learning more about Linux - Squeak is of dubious value to me if I stay on Windows, hence the diversion. Ubuntu installs quite easily, though an upgrade to 7.10 fried my VPN (getting to be a pain) and added/revealed some largely cosmetic bugs. I also want to get craftier with shell scripts. I am starting to think fondly of "reinstall, run custom script, return to find re-configured machine." Come to think of it, I want the same thing for Squeak, getting the latest version of various things (Gary's work being high on the list) w/o having to click and wait my way through a GUI. No lack of gratitude implied; the GUIs are great, but sometimes a script is the better way to go. I also looked at ST/X, and found pretty much what you did. It has strong supporters, but early experiments left me concerned that it would fail a lot too easily for my taste and needs. Re Squeak's GUI speed, have you tried some older versions? IIRC, Squeak took a real speed hit somewhere around 3.8 or 3.9???? That's not to say "downgrade or suck it up," but I _am_ curious if older versions are faster. One nice thing about slow platforms is that slow code crawls all the more on them. To add a concern to your list, what about incompatibilities with other dialects? To continue my rant about streams, 'hello' at:200 raises an error, but 'hello' readStream next:200 truncates. Hmmmm. Dolphin and VW get this one right. Nile includes some beginning efforts to rewrite some methods to use its streams, but to really fix it (I think) requires a breaking change. I am tempted to turn the RB loose to turn #next into #nextOrNil and #next into #nextAvailable: (there might be others I have yet to recognize), and then begin work in the new image after adding some methods and/or switching to Nile. Add confusion over that to my list of reasons/excuses for delay in MVP ;) Humor aside, it *is* a concern to me. So, what are we going to do to fix all of this stuff? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> A.Wacknitz(a)gmx.de 01/30/08 4:20 PM >>> The following is from a different subject but I find it more appropriate for the "Promote Squeak/Smalltalk" thread: Bill Schwab schrieb: > Lukas, > > Gary provided the authoritative answer, to which I will add that a stray > method to set the various preferences might be helpful. We will all > have our own variants, but it is getting hard to tell which options are > not truly independent. FWIW, it is a great problem to have. > > As far as keyboard focus being off topic: it is **ON TOPIC**. I wish > you guys could have heard Aileen type. Failing that, watch a clerk who > has learned how to work without a mouse (and hates having to stop to > touch it) pound on a keyboard. We should be able to meet their > expectations. > > Meeting expectations is a good catchword. And to make a long story short: Squeak is often advertised as being "multi platform" and having a decent class library. In my experience the reality is different: Windows is supported best, followed by Mac and Linux x86. Every other platform has more or less problems: - On Solaris (x86 and SPARC): FFI is not supported and thus no depending packages like ODBC (so no generic database connectivity). - Are there any actual VMs and images for ARM, MIPS or something similar? - What about Linux on non-Intel? Another, often discussed problem area for Squeak is its not standard conforming GUI. It may be that Morphic is in many areas superior to most other GUI frameworks. Nevertheless it is very difficult and annoying to create GUIs for standard business applications (eg. the aforementioned bank account SW). Code quality and documentation is another major concern. There is a lot of brilliant code in the Squeak base. But there is also a lot of mess in it. And you can be sure that most experienced programmers will find many more occurrences of mess than brilliant code. At least the mess is more likely to be remembered. Furthermore it is quite easy to find problems and annoyances in the tools of a standard image. (BTW I have similar experiences with ST/X. It takes only a few minutes to find MNUs in the standard tools.) Did I mention that Squeak is sometimes painfully slow on my Sun Blade 2000 (equipped with two US-III+ processors and 8GB RAM)? This has two causes: gcc produces slow code for SPARC (and Sun C and its tool chain is not quite supported) and Morphic (or at least most of Squeak's GUI) is painfully slow. Regards Andreas _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Fwd: OBSystemBrowser vs. Browser
by Bill Schwab 30 Jan '08

30 Jan '08

Lukas, Gary provided the authoritative answer, to which I will add that a stray method to set the various preferences might be helpful. We will all have our own variants, but it is getting hard to tell which options are not truly independent. FWIW, it is a great problem to have. As far as keyboard focus being off topic: it is **ON TOPIC**. I wish you guys could have heard Aileen type. Failing that, watch a clerk who has learned how to work without a mouse (and hates having to stop to touch it) pound on a keyboard. We should be able to meet their expectations. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> renggli(a)gmail.com 01/30/08 7:52 AM >>> > Of course, the context menu for taskbar buttons is only available if the existing "generalizedYellowButtonMenu" preference is switched off (don't ask why!). > As for window switching, alt-leftArrow/alt-rightArrow was the only combination I could find that wouldn't conflict with (mostly text) morphs and the host OS. > > All described here http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6005 This is really cool. Thanks for the pointers. Even if this is getting more and more off-topic, what would it take to get the focus detached from the mouse? Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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