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Re: [UI] A small change... for a start
by Gary Chambers 23 Mar '08

23 Mar '08

Well, to my mind there is no need for fillstyle type testing in a properly refactored Morphic. There is with what we currently have. (Will post again with a more comprehensive outlook on things). ----- Original message ----- From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: Squeak's User Interface <ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 03:36:35 GMT Subject: Re: [UI] A small change... for a start On 23/03/2008, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > But the fillstyle is only now aware of the canvas, not the morph (was neither before). > Yes, it's not and shouldn't be. As far a morph provides a coordinates of areas to fill, only the fillstyle can choose how to fill them. An isXXXFill patterns is really shows that parts of fillstyle behavior are handled by external entities, which adds complexity and uncertainty to many places in code. > Agree with you on relative vs absolute coordinates though. > > TC. Gary. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] A small change... for a start
by Gary Chambers 23 Mar '08

23 Mar '08

But the fillstyle is only now aware of the canvas, not the morph (was neither before). Agree with you on relative vs absolute coordinates though. TC. Gary. ----- Original message ----- From: Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> To: Squeak's User Interface e canv <ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Sun, 23 Mar 2008, 03:17:39 GMT Subject: Re: [UI] A small change... for a start On 22/03/2008, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > The current experiment works by double dispatch to "simple" methods that were previously the main entry point on Canvas, for compatibility. So provides the flexibility of FillStyles to utilise the existing capabilities of various canvasses. > > Ideally the whole thing could be restructured back to Canvas to efficiently deal with compositing. For the moment this achieves the overall aim without excessive redesign. > I think that your work with FillStyles highlighted some problems in Morphic, which cannot be handled as extension. For instance, a reason why morph asks if fillstyle isOrientedFill is to update a oriented fill origin point, when morph changes it's position. Which, in own turn, shows that it was a bad design choice to specify origin of gradient in screen-space coordinates, instead of coordinates relative to morph. But now, we can easily deal with that, because we dispatch to fill style. So, fill style can choose how it can fill, and using what coordinates - relative to morph or absolute. And finally, we can get rid isXXXFill protocol. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Host windows
by Bill Schwab 22 Mar '08

22 Mar '08

Gary, Having just stumbled on Squeak's SSL stack, I have another piece of my MS escape plan, at least to the point of being able to do some serious porting and stress testing. At the mission-critical level, there is one fairly intense fat client (that is where your work is most relevant to my plans), and various server apps. The latter have run as desktop apps under Dolphin, but that is becoming a problem as we move (over my unilaterally[*] bruised body) to virtual machines in racks. My plan is to build SSL into Kom and end up with "out of the box" secure Seaside-based configuration. Settings can be persisted by simply saving the image. Now the point (about time, I realize). The server apps will probably spend most of their lives in a headless configuration, but I will no doubt at times run them graphically to debug something. I have said this before, but I am becoming ever more convinced: using multiple host windows would be great, but we should also have the option of using system windows inside of one main Squeak window. I *think* the latter will be most useful for the debugging scenario above, but we should try not to lose the ability as we add the attractive idea of having browsers and debuggers floating around on an OS desktop. Thanks for your contributions to Squeak!! Bill [*] It is not all bad. I fear the VMs are in use out of mainstreamism, and they will almost certainly go from quick to overloaded with time. Having them locked up with dedicated staff to make backups, etc. is a good thing, both because it needs to be formalized, and because *I* don't have to do it ;) Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [UI] A small change... for a start
by Gary Chambers 22 Mar '08

22 Mar '08

Might now embark on a new theme as a showcase of the facility. STNG (Squeak The Next Generation). Fast machines only, maybe! :-) Gary

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Installation scripts
by Bill Schwab 02 Mar '08

02 Mar '08

Gary, Would you be willing and able to export your preferences, or (probably better) provide code or just a list of the preferences that should be true and false? All, regarding my goal of a script to build a new image, please take a look at http://installer.pbwiki.com/Installer What do you think? It looks like what I had in mind, only on steroids. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [UI] Installation scripts
by Bill Schwab 02 Mar '08

02 Mar '08

Ken, Your script was what got my attention. No offense, does it really work? :) Just form the docs, you appear to have covered the various sources, latest and greatest of this, specific version of that, etc. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> kbrown(a)mac.com 03/01/08 11:34 PM >>> I've just been going through all the Installer stuff. You might want to have a look at my example Installer script I just posted to squeak-dev. I am using it to prepare the latest 3.10 Dev image for building a Vm but you can get the idea and modify it to suit your own purposes. Let me know if you would like me to send it directly. Ken G. Brown At 11:24 PM -0500 3/1/08, Bill Schwab apparently wrote: >Gary, > >Would you be willing and able to export your preferences, or (probably >better) provide code or just a list of the preferences that should be >true and false? > >All, regarding my goal of a script to build a new image, please take a >look at > > http://installer.pbwiki.com/Installer > >What do you think? It looks like what I had in mind, only on steroids. > >Bill > > > > >Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >University of Florida >Department of Anesthesiology >PO Box 100254 >Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > >Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >Tel: (352) 846-1285 >FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >_______________________________________________ >UI mailing list >UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring
by Alain Plantec 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

On Saturday 23 February 2008 18:30, Gary Chambers wrote: > Once we have a nice performant and flexible framework I see the roles being > reversed, Morphic being handled via an adaptor in the new framework... > > All thoughts welcome. > Gary. Hi Gary, Maybe this is (at least partly) what I'm working on with Miro. Here is what I said about it on squeak-dev 2 weeks ago as a answer to Hilaire > On Tuesday 12 February 2008 13:49, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: > > Regarding the recent posts on Morph. I just want to write I am very > > interested by what Juan is doing with Morph 3, and also about Alain > > Plantec work to improve Morph. > > .... > > Thanks Hilaire, > Miro is in very early stage and I did'nt want to say to much about it > before I can show something to the community. > but I can say a little bit more. The aim is to provide a set of > re-targetable widgets. By re-targetable, I mean that it would be possible > to use them with Morphic2, Morphic3, or SqueakGtk or another connectable > viewing framework. For now, I'm using a fork of 4 morph classes (Morph, > ImageMorph, TextMorph and TransformMorph). My widgets are build by > composition of these 4 morph classes (no inheritance but only real > composition). Each widget is connected to its view classe (like my 4 Morph > classes are) by a mediator called a Director. A director have the > responsibility to build the scene (compose Morphs), to dress the scene > (style and theme handling) and to manage communications between the scenes > and the widgets. > Communications between the scene and the director and the widgets and > finally the client GUI is made with the help of Announcement framework. > So I think this architecture can be powerful but it has a cost and I want > to experiment it before I claim I have something interesting. > From my point of view, Morphic3 is a very interesting project because it > aims to provide a minimal set of very clean Morph classes. This is exactly > what I'm looking for as a built-in viewing framework. > A first demonstration of Miro usability will be obtained when I will be > able to really transparently re-target the same client GUI from Morphic2 > compatible classes to Morphic3. The next big step will be to connect Miro > to SqueakGtk. I will really be satisfied when I will be able to bring > native widgets connection to squeak. > As soon as I have a minimal set of clean widget connected to Morphic2 > compatible view classes, I document it and expose it to the community in > order to receive some feedbacks. > A long way to go but funny :) > cheers > alain >

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Re: [UI] Morphic restructuring
by Bill Schwab 23 Feb '08

23 Feb '08

First, I am not aware that anything is being done in the dark. However, Object Arts did pretty well with MVP w/o a lot of input, so maybe a small group _should_ be working behind closed doors. Indeed, the technology that seeded this effort came from a well-intentioned and skilled group of people at Pinesoft. Please note that they have made substantial changes based on our feedback, and this thread started with them asking for input on a future change. It's working; let's not derail them. Sincerely, Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> siguctua(a)gmail.com 02/16/08 4:53 PM >>> I'd like to add, it wouldn't hurt to discuss design of new framework publicly, so everyone will have a chance to put his 2 cents and share ideas. :) On 16/02/2008, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Tim, > > Agreed, and then some. I would not be upset by a framework that can > work down to the individual widget, but what you describe would give > most of the benefits of host integration and very few of the hassles. > In that, I am assuming (a safe bet I think) that Gary will ensure that > the feel is sufficiently configurable that we will not need an outside > framework to impose discipline re keyboard focus, etc. > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 02/15/08 3:00 PM >>> > > Our basic intent when designing Ffenestri was to allow pretty much any > usage. If you want to map a single SystemWindow level object to a host > window then that would be good and would match most needs in typical > applications. Don't forget to consider floating palette type windows > as well - those that accompany a main window and provide a palette of > tool icons etc. And menus could be implemented by opening a short > lived small window; this might well be much simpler and more portable > than trying to hook cleanly into every OS menu api, whilst allowing > the menu to be taller than a small app. window if needed. > > tim > -- > tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim > Klingon Code Warrior:- 10) "This code is a piece of crap! You have no > honor!" > > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Seaside and UI Enhancements??
by Bill Schwab 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

Hello all, Are any of you using Seaside with Gary's UI Enhancements? It seems like it should be ok, but if there are any tricks to getting everything installed, time-saving pointers would be appreciated. I am giving an introductory presentation on Smalltalk and Seaside (very basic stuff), and prefer to have the improved GUI if at all possible. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [UI] Seaside and UI Enhancements??
by Bill Schwab 18 Feb '08

18 Feb '08

Simon, By "with" I indeed meant just making it look nice, not to mention have an improved feel. I thought they would be orthogonal, but it is great to know that you have run the configuration for a while. You guys are doing great work, and I fully intend to put it on display. Thanks!! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> simon(a)pinesoft.co.uk 02/17/08 3:00 PM >>> Bill Schwab wrote: > > Are any of you using Seaside with Gary's UI Enhancements? It seems like > it should be ok, but if there are any tricks to getting everything > installed, time-saving pointers would be appreciated. I am giving an > introductory presentation on Smalltalk and Seaside (very basic stuff), > and prefer to have the improved GUI if at all possible. > Hi Bill. Here at Pinesoft (where Gary works!) we're developing with Seaside in dev images (as in, Damien Cassou's dev images) with the UI enhancements enabled. I'm not sure what you mean by "with", do you just mean an image with the UI enhancements making it look pretty? If that's the case I'm not sure what issues there are, as afaicr Seaside and the UI enhancements are orthogonal. Cheers, Simon -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Seaside-and-UI-Enhancements---tp15529989p15532405.html Sent from the Squeak - UI mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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