Squeakfoundation January 2002

squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org

33 participants
38 discussions

Re: [Squeakfoundation]sqf-formation list
by Les Tyrrell 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

Two comments: 1 ) I just joined this list. I just did that because I thought that I had joined it earlier, but was apparently mistaken. Now you want to create another list? I'm not sure how many Squeak-related lists I'm on *now*- I think its two, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Still, I could see some benefit to that for those of you who will be actively making this thing work. "Just Do It" is oddly enough not a particularly appropriate slogan for many of us, no matter how well-intentioned. 2 ) Many of your e-mails ( Cees, that is ) are showing up in my client as attached text files... the only way for me to see them is to go through a lot of extra steps just to read them, and then in situations like this when I reply I don't have the benefit of having your text automatically included. The bottom line- I am much less inclined to read your e-mails, because I have to do a lot more jiggling of buttons to do so. I promise to blow away any non-essential content in my replies- gratuitous copying is something I don't care for either. Anyway, good luck with all of this. I'll be glad to assist, but can only promise very limited support at this time. - les

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Re: [Squeakfoundation]sqf-formation list
by PhiHo Hoang 21 Jan '02

21 Jan '02

> By limiting membership, I'm not trying to censor people or whatever (I hear > the Libertarian Squeak Faction shouting in the back of the virtual city hall ;-)), Is this just another variation of democracy ;-) > because anyone can read the archives and comment on this list when they > think wrong decisions are being made, At the least, it would be as much inconvenient as replying to this posting of yours. > I'm just trying to make sure that discussion on that list is kept to a minimum OTOH, I am afraid that there will not be sufficient discussion. I recall how it was like before some one yelled 'GET OFF YOUR BUTTS'. May I add, 'and open your heart'. Cheers, PhiHo. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cees de Groot" <cg(a)cdegroot.com> To: <squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 2:40 PM Subject: [Squeakfoundation]sqf-formation list

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Call for volunteers - Web presence/PR committee
by cg＠cdegroot.com 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

Hi, As you may have noticed in Dan's mail I've been bombarded to Squeak Foundation PR guru, and as such I'm looking for a handful of people who want to help out in this area. First, I'd like to get some brainstorming going about the best way to conduct (for the time being) low-budget PR, and chat on some topics like: - Press releases; - "front page" (squeak.org); - first time experience (if we're going to tell news hacks how great Squeak is, we'd better make sure that there's a single click download for their platform and that the resulting image shows off). etcetera. Without clear goals, it's probably too early to form a full committee, so for the time being it'd be great if people could just help out in brainstorming a bit. As the 'dev' in 'squeak-dev' seems to stand for 'development', I think everyone would appreciate it when we do that on the Squeak Foundation mailing list (http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation). Regards, Cees -- Cees de Groot http://www.cdegroot.com <cg(a)cdegroot.com> GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD 1986 F303 937F E098 9E8B

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sqf-formation list
by cg＠cdegroot.com 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

Hi, In order to combine openness with efficiency, I've setup a mailing list for those that are directly involved with the gory details of setting up the Squeak Foundation. I'm not sure whether this is a perfect thing, but the idea is that only people who are really directly involved with actual work subscribe here (the subscription process is moderated) and exchange their work there, so the end result will be a nice, public archive of what has happened during the formation. By limiting membership, I'm not trying to censor people or whatever (I hear the Libertarian Squeak Faction shouting in the back of the virtual city hall ;-)), because anyone can read the archives and comment on this list when they think wrong decisions are being made, I'm just trying to make sure that discussion on that list is kept to a minimum so that Joe A. History Graudate has a nice clean archive to work with when he's writing is thesis "the Squeak Foundation - How It All Began" five years from now. Is that OK with everybody? Regards, Cees -- Cees de Groot http://www.cdegroot.com <cg(a)cdegroot.com> GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD 1986 F303 937F E098 9E8B

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national subfoundations?
by Marcus Denker 20 Jan '02

20 Jan '02

Hi all! Do we need national subfoundations? Here in Germany we could have some major advantages: 1) Make it easier to donate. International Money tranfer is *really* expensive. And Credit Cards are not as common in Germany as in the US. The best thing would be a normal german Bank account, so people and companys can simply transfer the money they want to donate. 2) Let the government pay. This is really important. It should be possible to get an official status that would entitle the subfoundation to issue "donation-receipts" which allow the donor to reduce his taxes. (I don't pay taxes (poor student), so I'm not entirely sure about how this works, but I think it will be possible to set something up like that.) 3) It's good to have a local contact person. And it's simply the right thing to do: Companies and people are donating money for many cases, and it would make everything much simpler if Squeak would fit in the "normal" way of doing things. So if we think that this is a good thing, I would volunteer to search for more information about how to do this here in germany. Marcus -- Marcus Denker marcus(a)ira.uka.de

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Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot!
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 19 Jan '02

19 Jan '02

Okay... I want to see a SqF gel up. I think the most important task for it is foster stable, independent Squeak packages that can be loaded or not - de facto modularity. When we do get that architecture modularity in, I'll gladly help with what refactoring/fixing needs to be done, either to packages I'm involved with (Celeste, RB), or other stuff. For starters, I'll post the RB Parser, which I've separated from the rest of the package. If Bijan does the associated algorithms, I'm obliged. Also, I think we should modularize the FileList - Stef sent a file in, I haven't played with it yet, but I think we shouldn't let it rust - big refactorings rust really quickly if not integrated. If I understand what needs to be done to make it possible for 50K of code to be harvested (harvesters, your guidance welcome), I'll do it. To start it off, I will survey Stef's changes and report what I think it'll take. I will also gladly help with harvesting generally. Dave, Dan - I think this is definitely worth doing, and will help as I can. Daniel Luciano Notarfrancesco <luciano(a)corest.com> wrote: > Tim Rowledge wrote: > > > GET OFF YOUR BUTTS > > > I offer my spare time (which is not much right now, but might be a lot > soon (I'm in Argentina)). I can help with the harvesting. I can also > compile VMs and plugins for Linux, BSD (Open, Free, Net), and Solaris > (in SPARC and x86) and help with porting efforts. > > There's a number of projects that I'd like to see done, so I'm willing > to help with them if there's any interest (from SqC and SqF) in having > them done: > > o. Replacing the current Streams with Craig's > o. Including Flow (especially NetStream and the ExternalResource hierarchy) > > and getting rid of Socket and SerialPort > o. Modularizing the image and producing a minimal image with no UI > o. Simplifying the parse tree nodes (factoring the bytecode generation > code out of them, for instance) > > o. Including Tim's new CompiledMethods > > o. And other stuff I can't remember now > > Cheers, > Luciano.- > > _______________________________________________ > Squeakfoundation mailing list > Squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation

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Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot!
by Luciano Notarfrancesco 19 Jan '02

19 Jan '02

Tim Rowledge wrote: > GET OFF YOUR BUTTS I offer my spare time (which is not much right now, but might be a lot soon (I'm in Argentina)). I can help with the harvesting. I can also compile VMs and plugins for Linux, BSD (Open, Free, Net), and Solaris (in SPARC and x86) and help with porting efforts. There's a number of projects that I'd like to see done, so I'm willing to help with them if there's any interest (from SqC and SqF) in having them done: o. Replacing the current Streams with Craig's o. Including Flow (especially NetStream and the ExternalResource hierarchy) and getting rid of Socket and SerialPort o. Modularizing the image and producing a minimal image with no UI o. Simplifying the parse tree nodes (factoring the bytecode generation code out of them, for instance) o. Including Tim's new CompiledMethods o. And other stuff I can't remember now Cheers, Luciano.-

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Re: [Squeakfoundation]Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot!
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 18 Jan '02

18 Jan '02

No, no no. You said you'd ... just kidding. I did determine a subset of the RB which makes the parser tests run. Not the minimal subset, but a first iteration, sure. I'll post it soon. Daniel Bijan Parsia <bparsia(a)email.unc.edu> wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 danielv(a)netvision.net.il wrote: > > > Okay... > > > > I want to see a SqF gel up. I think the most important task for it is > > foster stable, independent Squeak packages that can be loaded or not - > > de facto modularity. > > > > When we do get that architecture modularity in, I'll gladly help with > > what refactoring/fixing needs to be done, either to packages I'm > > involved with (Celeste, RB), or other stuff. > > > > For starters, I'll post the RB Parser, which I've separated from the > > rest of the package. If Bijan does the associated algorithms, I'm > > obliged. > [snip] > > Er..so long as that's "associated hooking up to current > browsing/altsyntax functionality", ok :) > > (May have to punt tiles/syntax morph to bob arning, but maybe not! I got > it sorta working once before.) > > Cheers, > Bijan Parsia. > > _______________________________________________ > Squeakfoundation mailing list > Squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation

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Yet another volunteer
by Mark Mullin 17 Jan '02

17 Jan '02

I'll volunteeer too. I'm a little dated on my ST'ing, just getting back into it after a 10 year hiatus. We're using Squeak as an adjunct to our virtual reality engine, and have great interest in the mechanisms where Squeak can be used by a community consisting of non-commercial and commercial users, and there's a mechanism for us commercial folk to "pay back". We tried Java, it was a dreadful misteak, we really really want Squeak to go forward. For what it's worth, I've also spent the last three years chasing funding (successfully on a femto scale, but enough...) and my biz-thought is reasonably well exercised. Finally, we've got some extra cycles here, in the next few weeks if anyone can think of something that requires organizational effort and labor but not rocket science, we've got a guy free. What I'd like to see come out of the Squeak foundation is a solid plan for potential _commercial_ use of Squeak, where the entry barriers are like they are now, nice and low, but there is a mechanism for companies to return non-competitive components of their squeak investment to the fold. In our case, we're planning on releasing all of the scaffolding, macros, and methodologies we used to integrate Squeak and our VR core. They benefit us far more shared with the squeak community than lying around in our code repositories. Oh yeah, and count us in for $1K. We're not rich, but if it weren't for Squeak, we'd have spent a lot more, or worse yet, might still be having to futz with Teabag, err, Java. Regards to all Mark Mullin/CEO/Vibrant 3D -----Original Message----- From: squeakfoundation-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeakfoundation-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of squeakfoundation-request(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: None To: squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Squeakfoundation digest, Vol 1 #76 - 3 msgs Send Squeakfoundation mailing list submissions to squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to squeakfoundation-request(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org You can reach the person managing the list at squeakfoundation-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Squeakfoundation digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot! (Luciano Notarfrancesco) 2. Re: Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot! (Bijan Parsia) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:41:00 -0800 From: Luciano Notarfrancesco <luciano(a)corest.com> To: dave(a)bedarra.com, dan(a)squeakland.org Cc: squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: [Squeakfoundation]Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot! Reply-To: squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Tim Rowledge wrote: > GET OFF YOUR BUTTS I offer my spare time (which is not much right now, but might be a lot soon (I'm in Argentina)). I can help with the harvesting. I can also compile VMs and plugins for Linux, BSD (Open, Free, Net), and Solaris (in SPARC and x86) and help with porting efforts. There's a number of projects that I'd like to see done, so I'm willing to help with them if there's any interest (from SqC and SqF) in having them done: o. Replacing the current Streams with Craig's o. Including Flow (especially NetStream and the ExternalResource hierarchy) and getting rid of Socket and SerialPort o. Modularizing the image and producing a minimal image with no UI o. Simplifying the parse tree nodes (factoring the bytecode generation code out of them, for instance) o. Including Tim's new CompiledMethods o. And other stuff I can't remember now Cheers, Luciano.- --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:47:50 -0500 (EST) From: Bijan Parsia <bparsia(a)email.unc.edu> To: squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Squeakfoundation]Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot! Reply-To: squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Luciano Notarfrancesco wrote: [snip] > There's a number of projects that I'd like to see done, so I'm willing > to help with them if there's any interest (from SqC and SqF) in having > them done: > > o. Replacing the current Streams with Craig's > o. Including Flow (especially NetStream and the ExternalResource hierarchy) Me to. Good to port all existing network apps, too (which isn't nearly as it sounds). I'd help with that. I'd even work on completely updating the Squeak networking chapter to fully document it (and cutting out the older stuff), so there'd be comprehensive documentation from the get go. [snip] > o. Simplifying the parse tree nodes (factoring the bytecode generation > code out of them, for instance) Or moving to the RB parser, whatever. I'm *very* into that and would happily work on a gelled, official, we really mean it, version of that. Specifically, I'll happily do the work to get all the prettyprinting browse modes working with the new stuff (and to clean it up a bit). (Moving to StreamWrappers would be nice, too.) These seem like tangible, feasible projects to test organization an procedures. Even better if they demoed modules (since they're both core, but not *only* core, bits of functionailty). It reminds me of the Squeak Projects page on the Swiki. A lot of good came out of it, but somethings withered and enthusism sorta died. Perhaps something like that again? As a start? (cough, blockclosures, cough :)) Cheers, Bijan Parsia. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Squeakfoundation mailing list Squeakfoundation(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/listinfo/squeakfoundation End of Squeakfoundation Digest

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Re: SqueakFoundation; get off your butts you lot!
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Hi! Tim Rowledge <tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu> wrote: > If people actually have any serious interest in seeing a foundation > founded then > GET OFF YOUR BUTTS Ok, time to get off it then... Since I don't want to promise doing anything that I don't like doing :-), I am signing up for these possible tasks: 1. Hosting stuff (got full control of Linux machines and connection to the net here at Bluefish) 2. Helping out with the harvesting process (It seems to be one of the "tight sectors" today) 3. Building "infrastructure" for the community (bugreporting, voting, etc.) The last one is something I am interested in and since I am currently doing cool webstuff based on Comanche and other network/socket related development in Squeak, I can reuse a lot of that. Anyway, I hope I am not the only one signing up... :-) And feel free to contact me with other "assignments" even if I reserve the right to say no if it sounds like something I am not the right man for. :-) regards, Göran

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Squeakfoundation January 2002