UI September 2007

ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org

29 participants
102 discussions

Re: [UI] Well, shall we do something then?
by Bill Schwab 17 Sep '07

17 Sep '07

Tim, Could the style sheets be rendered on the fly, possibly cached with a limited size and/or max time since most recent access? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 09/16/07 7:15 PM >>> On 16-Sep-07, at 2:32 PM, Hans-Martin Mosner wrote: > > CSS allows for some pretty decent layout, and maybe using it as the > method for specifying GUI layouts would lead to some synergy effects > between web GUI and screen GUI developments. We've been using some CSS for UI layout in Sophie. Seems to work reasonably but decent integration would be useful. Having text files sitting around is not a good solution in my mind. tim -- tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- If he were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered twice a week. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Well, shall we do something then?
by Bill Schwab 17 Sep '07

17 Sep '07

Tim, Creating the next phase of GUI design is a laudable goal, but for now, I have to be able to speak my current and near-future users' language. I am game to discuss anything more that you want to consider, but a viable cross-platform solution to meeting current users' needs is anything but premature. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 09/16/07 5:12 PM >>> On 16-Sep-07, at 11:41 AM, Bill Schwab wrote: > Todd, > > I had forgotten about the costumes - now I really want no part of > Tweak Costumes are in my opinion one of the more useful parts of the tweak design. You an change the look by changing the costume. Now tweak events... that's a different story. Nice idea but living with them in practice has been a real pain. Debugging when there are dozens of processes running, each handling an event related script has not been pleasant. I'm sure there must be a solution but we (as in 'the Sophie team' have not found it. > > Perhaps we can offer a choice between > Morphic and "The Welch Thing" on a per-use basis. That would be 'the Welsh thing', if you don't mind, (http:// www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=welch&searchmode=none) or 'Ariethfa Ffenestri' or just ffenestri. Remember that ffenestri is *only* a system for creating and manipulating host windows and allowing us to draw upon them. Someone needs to implement whatever higher level code is need to make meaningful use of the window. Morphic, Tweak, even MVC could all do so. My preference would be to see something based on Cairo(http://cairographics.org/) since that offers quite good quality, reasonably portable, vector based drawing and fonts and image composition. I really think that the conversations about use of MVP, MVC, whatever a re very premature. Right now I'd urge people to be thinking about what a UI should be able to do and not worry about just how to do it yet. What sort of interactions are needed? What widgets will support them? What sort of UI creation tool (s) would be nice? What sort of presentation devices should be supported - big screen, little screens, colour only or monochrome as well, touchscreeens, projected giant displays, web browsers via Web2.0-whatever ? Take the time to really work out something sensible. Document what is worked out. Work through scenarios of use and programming of the design. tim -- tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: YII: Yield to Irresistable Impulse _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Widgets 233 and sounds
by Gary Chambers 16 Sep '07

16 Sep '07

New version (233) on SqueakSource with refactoring of the sounds used in a theme. Should allow people to make their own SoundTheme subclass packages. Brad, hope you don't mind me snippeting this to the whole list: On Mon September 10 2007, Brad Fuller wrote: > Gary, > > I misunderstood what your close and restore down methods did. Attached > is a zip of Set1 that works better. > > I've been using them and they work ok. > > brad > > On Mon September 10 2007, Brad Fuller wrote: > > Hi Gary, > > > > I went thru your UITheme quickly and what I saw was that most of > > your theme sounds were basically empty. Is that right? > > > > Anyway, I went ahead and created two sets of UITheme (set 2 should > > use sindow Max, Min and Close from set1). Zip files are attached. > > > > I was going to add them, but I didn't know how you really wanted > > them to work in your classes. One suggestion is to add them to > > SampledSound so that they are available for everyone. I made them > > AIF so one could use the handy method: > > > > SampledSound addLibrarySoundNamed: 'test' fromAIFFfileNamed: > > 'test.aiff' > > > > But, it's your call. > > > > Try them out and let me know what you think. > > > > brad

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Re: [UI] Well, shall we do something then?
by Bill Schwab 16 Sep '07

16 Sep '07

Jason, Well said. I would add the point I already made separately, which is that the work to connect sub-presenters is different, not in addition to, what is required in Morphic. I agree that Morphic can be leveraged for views, and replaced at a later date if necessary. Anyone looking for another reason to at least have a layer on top of Morphic might consider that Morphic is going to get clobbered (has already been?) in Croquet. I am not happy about their reasoning and suspect they will eventually regret the decision; Morphic could easily suffer for it. Morphic is certainly not all bad, and in a rewrite scenario, we should be able to clone (aka steal<g>) quite a lot of code from it, clearly classifying behavior as belonging to views, interactors (e.g. mouse tracking) and presenters. A lot of cruft will be left behind. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 09/16/07 8:25 AM >>> On 9/15/07, Brad Fuller <bradallenfuller(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Warning: I know NOTHING about Dolphin. I haven't even seen it. But, as you > explain it, it seems like some extra steps to make MVP objects interactive. > Morphic objects are by default interactive, with nothing to do to get there. > Why would you want a system that makes you perform extra steps? Because close coupling (and I'm assuming based on what I've read that Morphic is closely coupled to the models) makes a less flexable system. The way I personally program any GUI, web or otherwise, is I make my model classes. These are classes that only understand the work to be done. They know nothing about "does someone need to confirm this?" or what order their instance variables might be displayed or anything. You could call these classes in a background process that has no GUI components at all. Now, there will be lots of different ways of displaying these model classes and exposing the services they offer. It is very often the case that different people are going to be interested in different services. So to support this, the best way I have seen is to have a "presenter" class that described generically how the class would be presented to a "third party" if you will [1]. And even a given presentation may have different ways to view it (see Magritte for examples). > I agree the event processing in Morphic can be improved. And, from my small > experience with it, there are things that need to be fixed. But, why not put > energy into improving Morphic? It's already there and MVP seems like a LOT of > work! It will be a lot of work to be sure, but other systems have better means of doing GUI work right now then Squeak. It's time to catch up. And I am still asking and not hearing (probably my own fault): what does Morphic offer? Why bother with the huge clean up it needs? What power/flexability does it offer that other graphic systems don't have? But as has been mentioned by myself and others already, making MVP has nothing to do with Morphic. Morphic can make a suitable view for the MVP framework. [1] Note that Lukas seemed to arrive at this conclusion independantly with his Magritte framework that allows you to describe how a model will be presented, and then it can be viewed via the web, Morphic, anything that someone has written a "view" for. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] Well, shall we do something then?
by Bill Schwab 16 Sep '07

16 Sep '07

Gary, IMHO, you hit it. Presenters and event handling are the most important features to get right. Views are an active part of the framework, but they are not something that should have to be created or changed in ordinary development. Others will probably disagree, but given text, list (one and multiple column) and image presenters and buttons/menus, I can do just about anything at the low-level. Then one would want the ability to create composites, including layout managers. In ordinary Dolphin MVP work, the only time one messes with a view is to create something that cannot be created with the existing views. Suppose one wants to produce a Gantt chart: I say create it as an image, and present it with ImagePresenter. It needs to be interactive? Fine, process events, and change the image, and invalidate the relevant part of the view. I have in past subclassed View for such things, and later realized that I was missing the obvious. So, while one could try to emulate the view protocol, I think it is not strictly necessary, and probably not even a good idea. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/14/07 3:32 PM >>> For Dolphin, without platform widget (specifically Win32) support, we'd have to emulate the api it does use too... Or are we just talking about taking its event/composition model? > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of > Jason Johnson > Sent: 14 September 2007 4:46 pm > To: Squeak's User Interface > Subject: Re: [UI] Well, shall we do something then? > > > On 9/14/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > Jason, Gary, > > > > Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little nervous > about mining > > Dolphin, because it would be easy to trick ourselves into > thinking we > > have a cleanroom implementation. > > Hadn't thought about that. > > > The other Dolphin-related topic is the buyout effort. If > we succeed > > with it, then Dolphin would be open, and one could simply port its > > framework to Squeak. I dread putting the brakes on > enthusiasm, but in > > this case, it might be appropriate to do other things while > the buyout > > works its way forward. > > Does this buyout realistically have a chance? I mean don't > they want like half a million USD or so? > > > With that said, how do you envision a rewrite working? How would I > > ensure that I am not simply copying OA's work? Typically, > I have seen > > this kind of thing done by two people, one or more > consultant/guides > > familiar with (aka tainted by knowledge of) the reference > system, and > > developers sworn to never look at the reference system. > The "blinded" > > developers write the actual code. In that model, I would be a very > > good guide, but I know too much about Dolphin to write the > framework > > myself. > > > > Fair? > > > > Bill > > Well, I hadn't thought about it honestly, but there are > several papers on the subject matter. One from Dolphin at at > least one other one that predates the Dolphin effort. I > think we could work from there, no? > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] Squeak's Menus Are Awful
by Bill Schwab 15 Sep '07

15 Sep '07

Gary, anybody, DUMB question: I found http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6005, which looks like a nice boost in getting things to work. Maybe Monticello will like me now ;) Are there any other tricks to this, such as install either by universe or Monticello, and then apply bleeding edge stuff from Squeak Source??? Just confessing ignorance in hopes that I will be testing the correct stuff. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/14/07 5:36 PM >>> Have changed Utilities #informUserDuring: and #informUser:during: to go via UIManager and overridden #informUserDuring: in PSUIManager to redirect to using the SystemProgressMorph do deal with the "popup" cases when recompiling etc. Deals with some of the mis-uses of popup-menus. Feedback appreciated (ToolBuilder-gvc.6 and Widgets-gvc.235 from SqueakSource). Had some hassles with Monticello (using Keith's changes...). Hopefully ok now :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of > Gary Chambers > Sent: 14 September 2007 8:29 pm > To: 'Squeak's User Interface' > Subject: RE: [UI] Squeak's Menus Are Awful > > > Sounds fair. There are still a lot of direct users of > PopupMenu in the image (ST-80 based), grim. Perhaps they > should be changed to go via the UIManager and/or theme and > use a MenuMorph. (even confirm: in the standard > MorphicUIManager uses PopupMenu rather than a MenuMorph). > Then fix/modify MenuMorph to have the behaviour we require > (or subclass it and direct it from the active UIManager). > > I could adapt the technique I used for a DropList's list to > make surethe menu gets deleted when a click occurs beyond its bounds. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of > > Jason Johnson > > Sent: 14 September 2007 5:51 pm > > To: Squeak's User Interface > > Subject: Re: [UI] Squeak's Menus Are Awful > > > > > > Sounds like you have a handle on it to me. :) > > > > On 9/14/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > > > Gang, > > > > > > Now that I have filtered this list into its own folder, I have > > > remember to **look at it** ~:0 > > > > > > How about this as a compromise: menus that are worthy of > > being left in > > > place (not many IMHO - they should instead be separate > > system windows) > > > should have a title bar and be draggable by that; other > > menus should > > > be sufficiently modal that it is not a consideration. > > > > > > Squeak has long (ab)used menus in situations where more > > complex views > > > were appropriate. Look at the file picking menus: one gets > > a chain of > > > menus vs. a dialog. Note that there are dialogs, but there > > are also > > > hideous menus. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > > > University of Florida > > > Department of Anesthesiology > > > PO Box 100254 > > > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > > > > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > > > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > > > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > > > > >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/13/07 7:00 PM >>> > > > I think you should be "able" to pick up the menus, just via halo > > > though, to move them out of the way. Not by a default click/drag. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of tim > > > > Rowledge > > > > Sent: 13 September 2007 11:55 pm > > > > To: Squeak's User Interface > > > > Subject: Re: [UI] Squeak's Menus Are Awful > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13-Sep-07, at 3:18 PM, Todd Blanchard wrote: > > > > > > > > > Specifically, they open to the right of the mouse. > > > > There's a good reason for that; if you click the mouse > button you > > > > get a button-down followed by a button-up. If the menu > > opened under > > > > the mouse location you would have accidentally picked > > whatever item > > > > was in the right place. Delete all files, anyone? > > > > > > > > It's particularly likely to be annoying when the menus > > are slow to > > > > dispaly, which they certainly seem to be in recent > Squeak images. > > > > Now venting about Morphic performance in 3.9 is something worth > > > > doing. Dismal. And I'm running on a 2GHz dualcore OSX > > machine with > > > > 2Gb ram, not exactly a slow system. > > > > > > > > > If you open a menu, don't move the mouse, and > click, you will > > > > > pick up the menu with the hand. This happens to me - > > oh - about > > > > > 50% of the time. Either open the menu under the mouse, > > or make it > > > > > so I can't pick it up except with the title bar. > > > > Do the latter for the reasons mentioned above. Being able > > to pick up > > > > a menu at any point is insane. > > > > > > > > > > > > tim > > > > -- > > > > tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; > http://www.rowledge.org/tim Press > > > > [ESC] to detonate or any other key to explode. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > UI mailing list > > > > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > UI mailing list > > > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > UI mailing list > > > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UI mailing list > > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Well, shall we do something then?
by Bill Schwab 15 Sep '07

15 Sep '07

Jason, The buyout _should_ have a chance. The target is $230k US, which means that 50 people could do it for under $5k each. There is an effort now to spread the load (as much as possible) over a wider audience. I am hopeful (who wants to pay more than necessary), but not optimistic about that working. OTOH, I will be very disappointed if we cannot scrape up 50 people willing to pay the cost of a VA license. However, the possibility of Dolphin going away has always existed. At first, I had nothing to lose; when that changed, I also started noticing that M$ was going a little nuts, and started looking elsewhere as an escape valve, hoping I would not need to press the shiny red button. Anyway, keep your fingers crossed. You will see an announcement when we are ready to accept donations. A good first step would be to collect the documents you describe. We should further be able to make something compatible with Dolphin's MVP; we simply have to be careful about how we do it. Unfortunately, I am too familiar with Dolphin to clone the system w/o a careful plan. AFAIK, it is perfectly acceptable for me to test and offer guidance. I would be a natural choice to write import/export filters for Dolphin users wanting to move view resources to Squeak. What if any use of other Smalltalks are used as references for Squeak's development? How is that done? Clearly it wasn't done for streams and certain characters related to assignment :( Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 09/14/07 11:45 AM >>> On 9/14/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Jason, Gary, > > Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little nervous about mining > Dolphin, because it would be easy to trick ourselves into thinking we > have a cleanroom implementation. Hadn't thought about that. > The other Dolphin-related topic is the buyout effort. If we succeed > with it, then Dolphin would be open, and one could simply port its > framework to Squeak. I dread putting the brakes on enthusiasm, but in > this case, it might be appropriate to do other things while the buyout > works its way forward. Does this buyout realistically have a chance? I mean don't they want like half a million USD or so? > With that said, how do you envision a rewrite working? How would I > ensure that I am not simply copying OA's work? Typically, I have seen > this kind of thing done by two people, one or more consultant/guides > familiar with (aka tainted by knowledge of) the reference system, and > developers sworn to never look at the reference system. The "blinded" > developers write the actual code. In that model, I would be a very good > guide, but I know too much about Dolphin to write the framework myself. > > Fair? > > Bill Well, I hadn't thought about it honestly, but there are several papers on the subject matter. One from Dolphin at at least one other one that predates the Dolphin effort. I think we could work from there, no? _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] Squeak's Menus Are Awful
by Bill Schwab 14 Sep '07

14 Sep '07

Gang, Now that I have filtered this list into its own folder, I have remember to **look at it** ~:0 How about this as a compromise: menus that are worthy of being left in place (not many IMHO - they should instead be separate system windows) should have a title bar and be draggable by that; other menus should be sufficiently modal that it is not a consideration. Squeak has long (ab)used menus in situations where more complex views were appropriate. Look at the file picking menus: one gets a chain of menus vs. a dialog. Note that there are dialogs, but there are also hideous menus. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/13/07 7:00 PM >>> I think you should be "able" to pick up the menus, just via halo though, to move them out of the way. Not by a default click/drag. > -----Original Message----- > From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of > tim Rowledge > Sent: 13 September 2007 11:55 pm > To: Squeak's User Interface > Subject: Re: [UI] Squeak's Menus Are Awful > > > > On 13-Sep-07, at 3:18 PM, Todd Blanchard wrote: > > > Specifically, they open to the right of the mouse. > There's a good reason for that; if you click the mouse button > you get > a button-down followed by a button-up. If the menu opened under the > mouse location you would have accidentally picked whatever item was > in the right place. Delete all files, anyone? > > It's particularly likely to be annoying when the menus are slow to > dispaly, which they certainly seem to be in recent Squeak > images. Now > venting about Morphic performance in 3.9 is something worth doing. > Dismal. And I'm running on a 2GHz dualcore OSX machine with 2Gb ram, > not exactly a slow system. > > > If you open a menu, don't move the mouse, and click, you will > > pick up the menu with the hand. This happens to me - oh - about > > 50% of the time. Either open the menu under the mouse, or make it > > so I can't pick it up except with the title bar. > Do the latter for the reasons mentioned above. Being able to pick up > a menu at any point is insane. > > > tim > -- > tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim > Press [ESC] to detonate or any other key to explode. > > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Well, shall we do something then?
by Bill Schwab 14 Sep '07

14 Sep '07

Jason, Gary, Sorry for the delay in response. I am a little nervous about mining Dolphin, because it would be easy to trick ourselves into thinking we have a cleanroom implementation. The other Dolphin-related topic is the buyout effort. If we succeed with it, then Dolphin would be open, and one could simply port its framework to Squeak. I dread putting the brakes on enthusiasm, but in this case, it might be appropriate to do other things while the buyout works its way forward. With that said, how do you envision a rewrite working? How would I ensure that I am not simply copying OA's work? Typically, I have seen this kind of thing done by two people, one or more consultant/guides familiar with (aka tainted by knowledge of) the reference system, and developers sworn to never look at the reference system. The "blinded" developers write the actual code. In that model, I would be a very good guide, but I know too much about Dolphin to write the framework myself. Fair? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 09/10/07 2:21 PM >>> On 9/10/07, Gary Chambers <gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > Have we discussed enough. Probably not yet. > Can we decide on a plan to move forward? Quite a man of action! :) Well, in my opinion the next step should be to make some kind of design on how we want MVP to work in Squeak. Nothing fancy with UML or anything like that if we don't want, but at least: What classes do we need and what is their responsibility. Bill, do you want to take a cut at this? I can go through my Dolphin image and start taking notes but you or someone else might produce results faster. Thanks, Jason _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Upgrading the universe
by Damien Cassou 14 Sep '07

14 Sep '07

Hi Gary, can you please upgrade the universe a bit more often so that people can upgrade their image and I can publish new squeak-dev images? Thank you -- Damien Cassou

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