UI September 2007

ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org

29 participants
102 discussions

Closing windows
by Damien Cassou 07 Sep '07

07 Sep '07

Hi, the effect which appears when a window is close is interesting but too slow. It takes a while when you have a lot of windows to close. -- Damien Cassou

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Re: [UI] We haven't discussed Host windows yet
by Bill Schwab 07 Sep '07

07 Sep '07

I submit that native==fast is a myth. The fact that I can pound on Dolphin and tread lightly in Squeak is due to feel, and Dolphin indeed gets that from the host. However, when the going gets tough (large grids), I emulate for speed. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 9/6/2007 2:53 PM >>> On 9/6/07, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 06/09/07, Jason Johnson <jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 9/6/07, tim Rowledge <tim(a)rowledge.org> wrote: > > Yes, i think that was the plan. But given the host OS windows is not > enough to make them work. They also need a message loop > implementation. And this is the point, where easy integration fails.. > First, messaging APIs is very different on many OSes. Second, you need > to install callbacks to be able to handle events from OS. All this > raises complexity to nearly impenetrable levels. Ah, but I'm not so interested/sold on going full blow platform windows. I just want to be able to open new ones for e.g. modal windows (and I suspect the start up code could use some care/refactory). I would still want to use Blt'ing or your OpenGL stuff because of the message passing issues with widgets. Dolphin is/was a snappy beautiful Smalltalk with 100% (afaik) native windows. But that's after who knows how long of tuning, and it only ran on windows. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Mouse vs Keyboard
by Gary Chambers 07 Sep '07

07 Sep '07

Just noticed after the keyboard focus change I've done that most other OSes treat the mouse wheel as a mouse event. Squeak treats it as keyboard...

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We haven't discussed Host windows yet
by Herbert König 06 Sep '07

06 Sep '07

Hi all, after having spent some hours with Gary's work, (not yet tried the latest version) I think our discussions do not cover: 1-Dialogs usually are not limited to the main window. 2-Some applications need fixed window size. 2-Not every application needs full window decorations (maximize, minimize, close). IMO these call for host windows. Not as a matter of look (I'd prefer Morphic) but as a matter of feel. The third point needs an extension to the HostWindows plugin, maybe this is not possible to do independent of the platform. I think the only thing we can emulate with Gary's work plus the state of the discussions here is the multi document interface (M$ gave up years ago) in full screen mode. Or to put it more general: Do we want to limit this discussion to what is stated on the top of http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6005 or do we think of enabling Squeak to build applications behaving (and looking) like native applications. I vote for the latter. Cheers Herbert mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net

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New version of Widgets on SqueakSource
by Gary Chambers 06 Sep '07

06 Sep '07

There is a new version of the UI Widgets on SqueakSource (230) for the brave again. Have been holding off updating the Universe (not least because I've forgotten my password already, but, the Universe is better off without too many minor versions). Some general performance improvements, at least for me (much more spritely here). Looking for feedback...

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RE: [UI] We haven't discussed Host windows yet
by Bill Schwab 06 Sep '07

06 Sep '07

Gary, I would describe what you are doing as more than a stop-gap. You are well along to providing a working emulated widget framework. IMHO, assuming it holds up under various kinds of users, it would be largely superior to a native widget framework. Ideally, Squeak should embrace native widgets too, but with some additional pounding and an extra theme or two, you will have an immediately portable yet robust user interface that can meet the needs of various masters. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/06/07 10:54 AM >>> Oh, and the user/password for the wiki is...? Just trying my best to please with something that we use and though other might like. I don't mind too much criticism as long as constructive and justified. Looks like a lot of people are having trouble loading things, when I get access I'll put a fail-safe guide on the Wiki. As for the UI in general, I think we need to look at the wider picture. My stuff is really a stop-gap to allow us to provide Squeak applications to our users at this time. -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Brad Fuller Sent: 06 September 2007 3:32 pm To: Squeak's User Interface Subject: Re: [UI] We haven't discussed Host windows yet On Thu September 6 2007, Brad Fuller wrote: > On Thu September 6 2007, Herbert König wrote: > > Or to put it more general: > > Do we want to limit this discussion to what is stated on the top of > > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6005 > > or do we think of enabling Squeak to build applications behaving > > (and > > looking) like native applications. > > (By "native" I assume you mean "Squeak") > All I did was place Gary's introduction from SqueakSource on this wiki > page. So, it's not a direction from Gary. Oppss... I meant to say: it IS a direction from Gary, but he didn't write up the wiki page. Additionally: the wiki page is for everyone! If you've got ideas, please edit and tell us it's updated! > I guess the first question: is this a community effort or a > Gary/Pinesoft effort? Gary has sought advice, changed his code to > comply with suggestions and placed it on SqueakSource. So, I'd say the > former. But, that's Gary's call. _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] [ANN][Squeak-dev Beta Image] Versionsq3.10-7143dev07.09.1
by Bill Schwab 06 Sep '07

06 Sep '07

Gary, That is probably the answer. I will try it shortly. Again, it is a relatively minor point, and I am probably going about it incorrectly. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/06/07 7:49 AM >>> How were you trying to change the background? Can be done directly via halo. For something more permanent have a look at #initialColorInSystemWindow: (added this since was more flexible than the original hard-coded white). -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 05 September 2007 10:46 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: [UI] [ANN][Squeak-dev Beta Image] Versionsq3.10-7143dev07.09.1 Gary, I tried the changes (from yesterday) with the focus changes, and it was a huge help! I still think there is something that you install by default that I do no use, resulting in some problems. The universe definition might provide a clue - if I'd only look at it :( If I had to guess, I would say that the way to get it to work is to install from the universe and then update using the mcz files. I spent a little time trying to change the background colors, and found Shout to be stubbornly thwarting my efforts. That is not a big deal, other than eye-strain relief for me. It might well be more of a Shout question than anything to do with your work. Thanks again! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] [ANN][Squeak-dev Beta Image] Version sq3.10-7143dev07.09.1
by Bill Schwab 06 Sep '07

06 Sep '07

Gary, I tried the changes (from yesterday) with the focus changes, and it was a huge help! I still think there is something that you install by default that I do no use, resulting in some problems. The universe definition might provide a clue - if I'd only look at it :( If I had to guess, I would say that the way to get it to work is to install from the universe and then update using the mcz files. I spent a little time trying to change the background colors, and found Shout to be stubbornly thwarting my efforts. That is not a big deal, other than eye-strain relief for me. It might well be more of a Shout question than anything to do with your work. Thanks again! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [UI] [ANN][Squeak-dev Beta Image] Version sq3.10-7143dev07.09.1
by Bill Schwab 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

Are you sure your grabbed: http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev/beta/sq3.10-7143dev07.09.1.zip The new UI definitely lurks therein. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> mikael.kindborg(a)gmail.com 09/03/07 3:17 PM >>> 2007/9/3, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > Damien, > > Great idea! As a side note, implementors, etc. seem to work fine; for > whatever reason, my image was not happy, so I will probably just move > some change sets into your image. > > One comment: the scrollbars do not work as well as they did in my > previous image. Clicks between the thumb and top/bottom buttons > (up/down a "page") appear to be ignored quite frequently. There might > be some other lost clicks, but that was where I noticed it most. Is > that a 3.10 bug? > > I _might_ have pre-selected the soft-squeak theme. The down-side would Yes, I am also a fan of the soft theme. However, I did not find the new UI in Squeak3.10beta.7143 ? Best, Micke > be to turn off some users (but I doubt those people will ever agree to a > change to the GUI). Either way, I would place a workspace in the image, > having expressions ready to change the theme to soft and standard, and > just about anything that opens a debugger, which IMHO received the most > stunning facelift of the entire image. Given the way Smalltalkers rely > on it, that is a good thing because it might hook some people enough to > get them to support some changes. > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>> damien.cassou(a)gmail.com 09/03/07 5:11 AM >>> > Hi, > > I've just uploaded a new squeak-dev beta image based on > Squeak3.10-7143 which contains the new UI from Gary Chambers. If the > new UI doesn't work well, please let the ui team know. > > > In a few days, you can expect a new release with OmniBrowser changes. > > Changes in this version: > --------------------------- > > - DynamicProtocols has been updated. You can now drop methods to a > dynamic protocol, this will categorize the method as 'as yet > unclassified'. Also, the different progress bars have been replaced by > just one. > - SUnit and SUnitGUI are now the ones of Keith Hodges. > - The Universe now points to each SqueakMap entry. > > Contained packages: > ------------------------ > > This image contains the following packages: > > AST version 149 > AutomaticMethodCategorizer version 0.24 > AutomaticMethodCategorizerServices version 0.2 > ClassSelectorSets version 1 > DynamicProtocols version 0.60 > eCompletion version 0.88 > eCompletion-Traits version 0.1 > eCompletionOmniBrowser version 0.2 > Installer version 1.0.130 > OmniBrowser version 0.382 > OmniBrowser-Full version 0.25 > OmniBrowser-Morphic version 0.28 > OmniBrowser-Refactory version 0.30 > OmniBrowser-Standard version 0.282 > OmniBrowser-SUnitIntegration version 0.5 > OmniBrowser-TraitsIntegration version 0.1 > Refactoring Engine version 37 > RoelTyper version 0.60 > ScriptManager version 0.6 > Shout version 3.15-tween.70 > ShoutWorkspace version 1-tween.1 > SmaCC runtime version 13 > Squeak dev packages version 0.14 > SUnit version 0.33 > SUnit-improved version 4.0 > SUnitGUI-improved version 4.0 > ToolBuilder integration for UI Themes version 0.51 > UI Themes and Standard Widgets version 0.5 > Universes version 36 > Universes OmniBrowser version 0.32 > YAXO version 9 > > Updating the image: > ------------------------- > > You are not obliged to download a new image if you don't want. You can > always update your image. > > To upgrade your already existing squeak-dev image: > > 1) World menu->open...->Package Universe Browser > 2) Update list from network > 3) Select all upgrades > 4) Install selection > 5) Execute: 'DEVImageCreator default install' (all windows will be > closed) > > > Prepared packages: > -------------------------- > > There are a lot of packages prepared for you in this image. They are > not loaded in the image, but they can be easily. > > - Open Package Universe Browser (world->open...->Package Universe > Browser). > - Click on "Update list from network" > - Wait a few seconds > - Select your packages > - Install them > > -- > Damien Cassou > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] What's next?
by Gary Chambers 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

>Can you tell me what the difference between the current >mouseOverForKeyboardFocus and your new mouseClickForKeyboardFocus? >It would seem that when mouseOverForKeyboardFocus is false and clicking a >morph and entering text would be the same. The focus is still on the text >area that you last clicked even though the mouse is not over the morph. The difference is rather subtle. With the existing mouseOverForKeyboardFocus disabled, the focus remains with a morph until the mouse enters another focus sensitive morph (excluding the desktop). When enabled, the focus is gained on mouse entry and released on mouse leave. The new mouseClickForKeyboardFocus requires a mouse down before the focus gets assigned. Pinesoft Computers are registered in England, Registered number: 2914825. Registered office: 266-268 High Street, Waltham Cross, Herts, EN8 7EA This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com

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UI September 2007