UI September 2007

ui@lists.squeakfoundation.org

29 participants
102 discussions

User instructions?
by Ron Teitelbaum 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

Hi All, Could someone answer the question posted at http://news.squeak.org/2007/08/30/new-squeak-ui-enhancements-released/#comme nts They are asking for how to load the new UI. I thought possibly pointing to http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev/beta/sq3.10-7143dev07.09.1.zip would be helpful but it would be helpful to have better instructions for beginners. Thanks, Ron Teitelbaum Squeak News Team Leader

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UIEnhancement Preferences
by Has van der Krieken 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

When opening a new morphic project, I've to toggle the UITheme preference in the new project to see the SystemWindow bar. Just wanted to mention this. Regards, Has.

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PluggableTextMorph and a rubberband
by Has van der Krieken 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

Recently I installed Gary Chamber's UIEnhancements. Pretty neat. After that, there's a rubberband in PluggableTextMorphs around the text when they get focused. (See attachment) Do you know how I can turn this off? Example: textHolder := StringHolder new. textHolder contents: 'rubberband around me'. textView := PluggableTextMorph on: textHolder text: #contents accept: #acceptContents. textView color: Color white. textView openInWorld. Regards, Has.

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Re: [UI] What's next?
by Bill Schwab 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

Brad, Good point about the task bar - there are other solutions to that problem, but none as slick. More generally, if you want to start with specifications, that is fine; count me in. I suspect they will be completely ignored, just as Squeak's deficiencies have been ignored. Whether by preferences or perhaps themed feel, we might have a chance to break through the "please don't break our toy" resistance by producing something nice enough that there will be some backlash against any who attempt to blackball it. For those who genuinely prefer the motif behavior, we should offer it from the beginning, but we should also provide a way to meet the demands of end users who have learned that they can freely "shove the mouse out of the way." In short, however we get there, I think our ultimate product should be working code with enough appeal (and I think Gary has the basics to make it work) to get the average Squeaker (if there is such a person) to want it. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> bradallenfuller(a)yahoo.com 09/01/07 5:37 PM >>> ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:48:34 AM Subject: [UI] What's next? > Do any of you have any regrets about installing Gary's packages? > I am tempted to load them into my working 3.9 image. > Any reports of bad experience would be appreciated. I haven't found a problem except the one I mentioned to Gary, and it must have been my fault, so no need to elaborate on my errs ;-) > Without any implied lack of gratitude, the changes are thus far simply > eye candy. perhaps, with the excepttion of the taskbar at the bottom, which may be helpful to some for auto-arranging the desktop. Gary's work is much appreciated and I can't wait until he finishes it! > As impressive and helpful as the changes are, I will stick to my long-standing assertion that Squeak's real GUI problems are feel related. I don't agree that it's exclusively feel related. There are many "look" issues as well. I contend that "look and feel" go hand-in-hand and maybe we should approach it this way? > Does this group want to tackle that problem? YES! > How? I still push the idea that we need guidelines first. But, i wanted to hear from more on this discussion topic before I said anything else (plus, I've been swamped too!) > Do we want to adopt Gary's work as a foundation? Foundation for what? > I am tempted to vote in the affirmative on the latter, and > hope that we will go further by taming the mouse-over activation and > focus madness. This could be easily remedied by first agreeing upon a keyboard focus rule(s) and then implementing the rule into the standard image (maybe for 3.10?.) With the rule in place, software authors will at least know what the rest of the community believes to be best practice. They can violate it if they want in their own apps, but at least it's stated. Maybe this could be our first project. > Preferences are fine: I would not want to force > convention on others any more than I want to subject my users to (what > would appear to them as) random behavior as they move the mouse. Preferences settings has been a long standing feature in Squeak. Frankly, I don't know how good it is. I like it, but there are some good arguments against this (see Raskin.) > Gary's work is yet another illustration that native widgets are not > necessary to achieve any particular look, and I am confident we can > illustrate the same re feel. Sorry, I always get confused on what "native" means. Does it mean native to the hosting OS, or native to Squeak? Maybe we should not use the word "native" and use "Host" or "OS" and "Squeak": e.g.: OS-widgets, Host-widgets; Squeak-widgets, Host-derived widgets -- ??? To comment on your comment, I believe that Squeak-derived widgets forces easy portability between hosts. brad _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Squeak's User Interface Main Swiki page
by Brad Fuller 05 Sep '07

05 Sep '07

http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6004 From here we can place additional links to projects, tutorials, lists, you name it!

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Re: [UI] [ANN][Squeak-dev Beta Image] Version sq3.10-7143dev07.09.1
by Bill Schwab 04 Sep '07

04 Sep '07

Karl, That would be up to Gary. Prior to any such change, open the preference browser, then morphic, and look for uiTheme at the end of the list. Failing that, paste these into a workspace and enjoy: UIThemeVistary beCurrent. UIThemeSoftSqueak beCurrent. UIThemeStandardSqueak beCurrent. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> karl.ramberg(a)comhem.se 09/03/07 4:55 PM >>> First time I tried to change a theme in the PreferenceBrowser I clicked the Theme button on the top of the browser... No luck there. Maybe the new themes could be added to the list under the Theme button ? Karl Bill Schwab wrote: > Are you sure your grabbed: > > http://damien.cassou.free.fr/squeak-dev/beta/sq3.10-7143dev07.09.1.zip > > The new UI definitely lurks therein. > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>>> mikael.kindborg(a)gmail.com 09/03/07 3:17 PM >>> >>>> > 2007/9/3, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>: > >> Damien, >> >> Great idea! As a side note, implementors, etc. seem to work fine; for >> whatever reason, my image was not happy, so I will probably just move >> some change sets into your image. >> >> One comment: the scrollbars do not work as well as they did in my >> previous image. Clicks between the thumb and top/bottom buttons >> (up/down a "page") appear to be ignored quite frequently. There might >> be some other lost clicks, but that was where I noticed it most. Is >> that a 3.10 bug? >> >> I _might_ have pre-selected the soft-squeak theme. The down-side >> > would > > Yes, I am also a fan of the soft theme. However, I did not find the > new UI in Squeak3.10beta.7143 ? > > Best, Micke > > >> be to turn off some users (but I doubt those people will ever agree to >> > a > >> change to the GUI). Either way, I would place a workspace in the >> > image, > >> having expressions ready to change the theme to soft and standard, and >> just about anything that opens a debugger, which IMHO received the >> > most > >> stunning facelift of the entire image. Given the way Smalltalkers >> > rely > >> on it, that is a good thing because it might hook some people enough >> > to > >> get them to support some changes. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 846-1285 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >> >>>>> damien.cassou(a)gmail.com 09/03/07 5:11 AM >>> >>>>> >> Hi, >> >> I've just uploaded a new squeak-dev beta image based on >> Squeak3.10-7143 which contains the new UI from Gary Chambers. If the >> new UI doesn't work well, please let the ui team know. >> >> >> In a few days, you can expect a new release with OmniBrowser changes. >> >> Changes in this version: >> --------------------------- >> >> - DynamicProtocols has been updated. You can now drop methods to a >> dynamic protocol, this will categorize the method as 'as yet >> unclassified'. Also, the different progress bars have been replaced by >> just one. >> - SUnit and SUnitGUI are now the ones of Keith Hodges. >> - The Universe now points to each SqueakMap entry. >> >> Contained packages: >> ------------------------ >> >> This image contains the following packages: >> >> AST version 149 >> AutomaticMethodCategorizer version 0.24 >> AutomaticMethodCategorizerServices version 0.2 >> ClassSelectorSets version 1 >> DynamicProtocols version 0.60 >> eCompletion version 0.88 >> eCompletion-Traits version 0.1 >> eCompletionOmniBrowser version 0.2 >> Installer version 1.0.130 >> OmniBrowser version 0.382 >> OmniBrowser-Full version 0.25 >> OmniBrowser-Morphic version 0.28 >> OmniBrowser-Refactory version 0.30 >> OmniBrowser-Standard version 0.282 >> OmniBrowser-SUnitIntegration version 0.5 >> OmniBrowser-TraitsIntegration version 0.1 >> Refactoring Engine version 37 >> RoelTyper version 0.60 >> ScriptManager version 0.6 >> Shout version 3.15-tween.70 >> ShoutWorkspace version 1-tween.1 >> SmaCC runtime version 13 >> Squeak dev packages version 0.14 >> SUnit version 0.33 >> SUnit-improved version 4.0 >> SUnitGUI-improved version 4.0 >> ToolBuilder integration for UI Themes version 0.51 >> UI Themes and Standard Widgets version 0.5 >> Universes version 36 >> Universes OmniBrowser version 0.32 >> YAXO version 9 >> >> Updating the image: >> ------------------------- >> >> You are not obliged to download a new image if you don't want. You can >> always update your image. >> >> To upgrade your already existing squeak-dev image: >> >> 1) World menu->open...->Package Universe Browser >> 2) Update list from network >> 3) Select all upgrades >> 4) Install selection >> 5) Execute: 'DEVImageCreator default install' (all windows will be >> closed) >> >> >> Prepared packages: >> -------------------------- >> >> There are a lot of packages prepared for you in this image. They are >> not loaded in the image, but they can be easily. >> >> - Open Package Universe Browser (world->open...->Package Universe >> Browser). >> - Click on "Update list from network" >> - Wait a few seconds >> - Select your packages >> - Install them >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> _______________________________________________ >> UI mailing list >> UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UI mailing list >> UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui >> >> > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] What's next?
by Bill Schwab 04 Sep '07

04 Sep '07

PERFECT!!!! Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/04/07 1:19 PM >>> That's the plan! (conditionally create a feel). -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 04 September 2007 6:12 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] What's next? Gary, I think you will understand my position once you face the masses. If you find them agreeable to a Squeak feel, PLEASE let me know. Otherwise, I look forward to creating something that can conditionally create a feel that I could put before the users I have described. Thanks! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/04/07 1:06 PM >>> I agree, I'd like a nice consistent UI. However, I'd also not want to alienate different approaches. Hard to do both! -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 04 September 2007 5:59 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] What's next? Gary, I believe the image in question originated via my Ubuntu system - no warranties re which version etc., though it can probably tell us. However, I doubt very much that I loaded the integration first. I can try it again, but I am fairly certain I got that right. My comments re Dolphin are not meant as a slight; you are doing a great job. I am disappointed that so many in the Squeak community seem to forget that much of the mechanical and visual vocabulary embodied in mainstream interfaces (to avoid web weirdness, say circa 2000) has its origins in usability testing (to be fair, much of it done my M$), a very long time ago. Things work(ed) the way they do because that was what worked with Joe Average in various walks of life. To the extent that we can benefit from that research, the better we will serve our users. I have no objection to trying to do better, but we should do so having the basics covered. Consider me interested in making menus stay put unless dragged by a title bar. Won't presume to speak for others (except your users<g>). Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/04/07 12:27 PM >>> I think the topWindow problems were due to having possibly loaded the the ToolBuilder integration before the Widgets. I've done through the senders of #topWindow in my stuff and identified only one place that it may fail (when using the task Switcher), fixed. I have noticed there's an unprotected call on that method from ServiceAction (World topRequestor), outside my changes. If there's interest I can preferentially change the "pick-up" of menus. Remember, Dolphin, at its heart, is based on the Windows api. Very fixed! I'm try to please all people all of the time (lol). Lost clicks - if anybody else can identify this as a problem I will, of course, investigate. Thank you for your freedback. Gary -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 04 September 2007 5:18 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] What's next? Gary, Unless they are really desperate and computer aware enough to understand what is going on, my prediction is that they would complain about menus that get picked up on errant clicks, "random" focus movement, etc. I know it drives me nuts. I push Dolphin pretty hard. Not that I would enter a contest, but people sometimes complain about the racket while I type; I burst at well over 100 words per minute when I am "on" [*]. Note that I can do this only when the words are in my head vs. on paper. Regardless of the details, Squeak's GUI feels incredibly fragile to me by comparison to Dolphin's, and in fact, just about any text or programmer's editor I have ever used. I suspect your users would have the same reaction. My problems with #topWindow were in 3.9; no lost clicks there. I never quite fixed the IDE problems though (implementors etc. throw walkbalks), very likely my fault. The 3.10 Squeak-dev image works, except that it suffers lost clicks. Bill [*] Note that I am a mere shadow of the fastest typist I have ever seen. She was a secretary in my department during grad school, and literally wore the markings off of keyboards. Scary thing was she could talk while going at full speed (accurately too). Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/04/07 11:35 AM >>> As for users... Yet to be deployed to them (Report Builder)... Though I have done some work on "lock-down" to prevent unexpected menus etc in a deployed application. For version, this has not been tested by myself with 3.10, just 3.9. I haven't noticed any "lost clicks" with scrollbars but then, they are timing/step based for the "page" areas... -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 04 September 2007 4:22 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: [UI] What's next? Gary, That was quick! I will certainly check it out. I am negligent in not yet finding your previous emails listing some assumptions about the image. Reasons aside, I had problems until I downloaded the Squeak-dev image, at which point implementors... etc. worked. I noted some problems with "lost clicks" but I assume that pre-dates your recent changes and/or is specific to 3.10. Are there any tricks to updating that image to contain your new work? As an aside, I am surprised you have put so much attention into look w/o worrying (much) about feel. If you don't mind describing it, who are your users? If not specifically, what type of tasks, what level of expertise? I am curious because I find it difficult to envision people who would be attracted by your appearance enhancements and not lost due to the feel problems. THANKS!!! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/04/07 10:48 AM >>> I have uploaded a new version of Widgets to SqueakSource. Hopefully adds "click to focus" functionality. Untested properly at the moment so holding off updating the Universe. Perhaps some brave people would like to have a go! Two extra preferences added: mouseClickForKeyboardFocus and windowsActiveOnFirstClick. The first covers the changes for making the #mouseEnter behaviour (i.e take keyboard focus) optional for most basic morphs. The second, with a bit of a fix, allows the first click on an inactive window to properly propagate to the clicked morph after activating its containing window. I find it a bit strange to have to assume "normal" behaviour with these options! (Have go used to the Squeaky/Motif way of focus handling, in a (using Squeak) modal way!). Feedback always appreciated! Gary. -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 02 September 2007 12:11 am To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: [UI] What's next? Brad, Good point about the task bar - there are other solutions to that problem, but none as slick. More generally, if you want to start with specifications, that is fine; count me in. I suspect they will be completely ignored, just as Squeak's deficiencies have been ignored. Whether by preferences or perhaps themed feel, we might have a chance to break through the "please don't break our toy" resistance by producing something nice enough that there will be some backlash against any who attempt to blackball it. For those who genuinely prefer the motif behavior, we should offer it from the beginning, but we should also provide a way to meet the demands of end users who have learned that they can freely "shove the mouse out of the way." In short, however we get there, I think our ultimate product should be working code with enough appeal (and I think Gary has the basics to make it work) to get the average Squeaker (if there is such a person) to want it. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> bradallenfuller(a)yahoo.com 09/01/07 5:37 PM >>> ----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:48:34 AM Subject: [UI] What's next? > Do any of you have any regrets about installing Gary's packages? I am > tempted to load them into my working 3.9 image. Any reports of bad > experience would be appreciated. I haven't found a problem except the one I mentioned to Gary, and it must have been my fault, so no need to elaborate on my errs ;-) > Without any implied lack of gratitude, the changes are thus far simply > eye candy. perhaps, with the excepttion of the taskbar at the bottom, which may be helpful to some for auto-arranging the desktop. Gary's work is much appreciated and I can't wait until he finishes it! > As impressive and helpful as the changes are, I will stick to my long-standing assertion that Squeak's real GUI problems are feel related. I don't agree that it's exclusively feel related. There are many "look" issues as well. I contend that "look and feel" go hand-in-hand and maybe we should approach it this way? > Does this group want to tackle that problem? YES! > How? I still push the idea that we need guidelines first. But, i wanted to hear from more on this discussion topic before I said anything else (plus, I've been swamped too!) > Do we want to adopt Gary's work as a foundation? Foundation for what? > I am tempted to vote in the affirmative on the latter, and hope that > we will go further by taming the mouse-over activation and focus > madness. This could be easily remedied by first agreeing upon a keyboard focus rule(s) and then implementing the rule into the standard image (maybe for 3.10?.) With the rule in place, software authors will at least know what the rest of the community believes to be best practice. They can violate it if they want in their own apps, but at least it's stated. Maybe this could be our first project. > Preferences are fine: I would not want to force > convention on others any more than I want to subject my users to (what > would appear to them as) random behavior as they move the mouse. Preferences settings has been a long standing feature in Squeak. Frankly, I don't know how good it is. I like it, but there are some good arguments against this (see Raskin.) > Gary's work is yet another illustration that native widgets are not > necessary to achieve any particular look, and I am confident we can > illustrate the same re feel. Sorry, I always get confused on what "native" means. Does it mean native to the hosting OS, or native to Squeak? Maybe we should not use the word "native" and use "Host" or "OS" and "Squeak": e.g.: OS-widgets, Host-widgets; Squeak-widgets, Host-derived widgets -- ??? To comment on your comment, I believe that Squeak-derived widgets forces easy portability between hosts. brad _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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RE: [UI] Fwd: [Newbies] PluggableTextMorph and rubberband
by Bill Schwab 04 Sep '07

04 Sep '07

Gary, I just remember it was (apparently) not easy to get it to do what I wanted :) I bow to your theory on the mechanism. Anyone wanting to beat me to it is most welcome, but if creating a custom tool builder means what I think it means, I would be willing to take a crack at making a themed IDE. It would be a significant proof of concept, and would make Squeak that much easier for me to (ab)use in daily work. It would (again, assuming I have the correct things in mind) also allow us to localize feel changes, leaving much of morphic alone. Messing around with GUI builders/translators is also a good thing for me to be doing, because if I ever move the cash cows to Squeak, translating some GUIs would be an essential step. Other things need to be fixed too, but the GUIs are certainly a big and highly visible component; I am hopeful that Pavel's kernel effort will provide ready access to fixes for the other (call them ANSI related for a 30k ft view) snags. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/04/07 1:14 PM >>> Background colour, IIRC is imposed on "panes" in a window... Can do better when using some of the extra themed controls. -----Original Message----- From: ui-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:ui-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab Sent: 04 September 2007 6:09 pm To: ui(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: [UI] Fwd: [Newbies] PluggableTextMorph and rubberband Guys, For the record, I can live with it either way, though I think that some focus indication is a good idea - again, MS of old did it that way for a reason, based on feedback from users, to whom they actually paid some attention in those days. The amount of text snared is really of little interest to me. I simply was reminded of the trouble I had changing the background color, but that is a morphic/squeak but, not anything wrong with Gary's work (though we might be able to improve things, or I could be missing the correct way to change it in Squeak as-is). More later. This is quite low on my priority scale. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 09/04/07 12:43 PM >>> On 4-Sep-07, at 8:18 AM, Gary Chambers wrote: > The dotted border indicates the current keyboard focus... I can add a > preference if required, or, perhaps, a choice of focus indication > styles. Whilst I'm not at all convinced that any special focus indicator is needed, I am convinced that the aggressively visible dotted line around the *wrong* area is a poor choice. Currently in an empty text pane the dotted line appears around a single line instead of the rather more logical entire text pane. tim -- tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: RP: Read Printer _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Fwd: [Newbies] PluggableTextMorph and rubberband
by Bill Schwab 04 Sep '07

04 Sep '07

Guys, For the record, I can live with it either way, though I think that some focus indication is a good idea - again, MS of old did it that way for a reason, based on feedback from users, to whom they actually paid some attention in those days. The amount of text snared is really of little interest to me. I simply was reminded of the trouble I had changing the background color, but that is a morphic/squeak but, not anything wrong with Gary's work (though we might be able to improve things, or I could be missing the correct way to change it in Squeak as-is). More later. This is quite low on my priority scale. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 09/04/07 12:43 PM >>> On 4-Sep-07, at 8:18 AM, Gary Chambers wrote: > The dotted border indicates the current keyboard focus... I can add a > preference if required, or, perhaps, a choice of focus indication > styles. Whilst I'm not at all convinced that any special focus indicator is needed, I am convinced that the aggressively visible dotted line around the *wrong* area is a poor choice. Currently in an empty text pane the dotted line appears around a single line instead of the rather more logical entire text pane. tim -- tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: RP: Read Printer _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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Re: [UI] Fwd: [Newbies] PluggableTextMorph and rubberband
by Bill Schwab 04 Sep '07

04 Sep '07

I believe there is more to it, though I spend very little time (arguably none now<g>) looking at the current Windows interface. The first thing I do to an XP box is change it to the 2k theme and undo all of the "make this screaming machine appear slow" effects I can find. With that caveat, do they not enhance shadows or otherwise put dotted lines around controls with focus? You are correct about the top level windows, but focus of course drills down into the view hierarchy. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 846-1285 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> jason.johnson.081(a)gmail.com 09/04/07 1:50 PM >>> Current windows just shows focus by changing the color of the.... what ever you call that top bar with the minimize, maximize and close buttons, no? What does Mac do? On 9/4/07, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Guys, > > For the record, I can live with it either way, though I think that some > focus indication is a good idea - again, MS of old did it that way for a > reason, based on feedback from users, to whom they actually paid some > attention in those days. > > The amount of text snared is really of little interest to me. I simply > was reminded of the trouble I had changing the background color, but > that is a morphic/squeak but, not anything wrong with Gary's work > (though we might be able to improve things, or I could be missing the > correct way to change it in Squeak as-is). More later. > > This is quite low on my priority scale. > > Bill > > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 846-1285 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > >>> tim(a)rowledge.org 09/04/07 12:43 PM >>> > > On 4-Sep-07, at 8:18 AM, Gary Chambers wrote: > > > The dotted border indicates the current keyboard focus... I can add a > > preference if required, or, perhaps, a choice of focus indication > > styles. > Whilst I'm not at all convinced that any special focus indicator is > needed, I am convinced that the aggressively visible dotted line > around the *wrong* area is a poor choice. Currently in an empty text > pane the dotted line appears around a single line instead of the > rather more logical entire text pane. > > tim > -- > tim Rowledge; tim(a)rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim > Strange OpCodes: RP: Read Printer > > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > > _______________________________________________ > UI mailing list > UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui > _______________________________________________ UI mailing list UI(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ui

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