etoys-dev July 2007

etoys-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

25 participants
63 discussions

[Etoys] EToys as textbook/exercise replacement ?
by Orestis Markou 07 Jul '07

07 Jul '07

Hello, I've downloaded the image of EToys and I'm playing around in my Windows PC, it works quite well. I want to create EToys projects that will replace the normal exercise texbook. Most of the exercises just need to display the question, provide a space for writing down, and a space for giving the final answer. A few (like geometry) would need tools like a compass and ruler, plus giving names to parts (like naming an edge of a triangle) and so on. Maybe some animation will be used, but no scripting, and there is no concept of grading in an automated sense. Now, for something like this, I'd use Flash in a web browser, but I've been dictated to use the EToys platform. Is this the correct platform ? Should I develop on EToys or should I drop in squeak ? I'd prefer python to do this, as I'm much more versed in python than smalltalk... Thanks, Orestis Markou

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Re: [Etoys] DRGEOII and ODECo on OLPC
by luis ACEVEDO 07 Jul '07

07 Jul '07

Hello : has appeared in this list new tools working in the image olpc, such as DrgeoII, ODECO (I wanted to see squeleton, too). My question is: these tools will be in the next/definitive version, or the size of the image grows too much? thanksPatricio Acevedo _________________________________________________________________ Descubre Live.com - tu mundo en línea reunido: noticias, deportes, el tiempo, y mucho más. http://www.live.com/getstarted

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[Etoys] ODECo on OLPC
by Takashi Yamamiya 06 Jul '07

06 Jul '07

Hi, http://propella.blogspot.com/2007/07/odeco-on-olpc.html (screen shot) ODECo http://languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15 is an easy tool kit for making dynamics simulation based on ODE http://www.ode.org. It was developed for Squeak 3.6 in 2004 though. Now I did small fix to work on OLPC etoys and Squeak3.9 for linux (I've tested it on Fedora 7). How to Play: - Download and extract the image. - Install the plugin. (for OLPC, you need to copy ODEPlugin to /usr/lib/squeak/3.9-11/) - Open the image. And try examples. Download: (image + examples + plugins for linux, windows, mac) http://languagegame.org/pub/ODECo-OLPC-2007-07-05.zip Source Code: http://squeaksource.com/ODE/ODE-Plugin-tak.2.mcz http://squeaksource.com/ODE/ODE-Base-tak.39.mcz Website: http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/15 Cheers, - Takashi

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[Etoys] problem loading .st file in etoy.image from OLPC
by Fredy Guio 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

hi list. I have a promblem loading a file .st from OLPC image. I can load the file in the squeak 3.9a image. but in the etoys.image for OLPC not load the file .st etoys.image can't admit the files .st I drag and drop the file from file browser to world in squeak3.9a image and run. but in etoys.image for OLPC not load, not generate error message, does nothing. that is de file: http://www.swa.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/projects/olpc/media/Games-DiceWars.st.gz Somebody know, how load a file .st in the etoys.image for OLPC thanks.

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[Etoys] Random and Times-Repeat
by Scott Wallace 05 Jul '07

05 Jul '07

Among recent updates to olpc-etoys, there have been remakes of both the "random" tile and the "repeat-times" unit -- significant enough in both cases that entirely new classes are used. Although support for the old "random" and "repeat-times" has been retained in the system for backward-compatibility, it would be highly desirable to upgrade any existing olpc-etoys project that uses either of these constructs so that it uses only the new versions of these tiles. In the case of "random", anywhere in a script that you have an old "random" tile, simply grab a fresh "random" tile from the Gold Box and drop it on top of the old tile; then set the argument of the new random tile as desired. In the case of "repeat-times", it's probably most straightforward to get a fresh "repeat-times" from the gold box -- this is guaranteed to be a new-style "repeat-times" -- and then move the tiles from the old repeat-times unit to corresponding areas of the new unit, then, finally, remove the (now-empty) old unit from its Scriptor and put the new one in its place. I know this is tedious and labor-intensive, but I believe you'll find that the enhanced functionality is worth it. And it would be nice if we could see our way clear to removing the old classes eventually. Cheers, -- Scott

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[Etoys] First Squeak-based activity
by Bert Freudenberg 04 Jul '07

04 Jul '07

Hi folks, I made a proof-of-concept Squeak-based activity. I took the "DiceWars" Smalltalk file from http://www.swa.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/projects/olpc/ and wrapped it as an XO bundle, included an icon, patched the .st file to automatically open the game in a new project, and off we go :) Screenshots and bundle attached. The bundle is actually a zip file, for anybody interested in looking inside. This needs the very latest etoys package and squeak vm to work, so use OLPC #485 or an up-to-date sugar-jhbuild to test. - Bert -

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[Etoys] Fwd: CHOOSE Talk: $100 Laptop
by Marcus Denker 03 Jul '07

03 Jul '07

Begin forwarded message: > From: Marcus Denker <denker(a)iam.unibe.ch> > Date: 30. Juni 2007 10:55:17 GMT+02:00 > To: Squeak in Germany / Squeak in Deutschland <squeak- > ev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Subject: CHOOSE Talk: $100 Laptop > > ============================================================ > The CHOOSE executive board is pleased to invite you to a > presentation by > Dr. Bert Freudenberg on 'One Etoy Per Child on the $100 Laptop'. > > This event is free for all SI-CHOOSE members, even the drinks after > the talk! Non-CHOOSE members are also welcome, and are encouraged to > fill out the membership application form (http://www.s-i.ch/) before > attending the meeting. If you want to know more about CHOOSE and > the events which CHOOSE organises, please visit www.choose.s-i.ch > > NOTE: registration for this event is required. Please fill out the > registration form at the end of this e-mail. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > One Etoy Per Child on the $100 Laptop > ========================== > > When: 06.07.2007, 17:15 > > Where: Institut fuer Wirtschaftsinformatik (IWI), Universitaet Bern, > Engehaldenstrasse 8, 3012 Bern, Hoersaal 001 > > Travel instructions: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~scg/Resources/Maps/ > > Speaker > ------- > Dr. Bert Freudenberg > > Agenda > ------ > > 1 hour Talk and Q/A > > Afterwards you are invited to a refreshment. > > Abstract > ======== > Most of the two billion children in developing countries have > unsufficient > access to education. The non-profit "One Laptop per Child" project is > working on a learning machine, a cheap, networked computer with > software to > support "learning to learn" for every child. One of its software > components > is "Etoys", a tile-based authoring environment written on top of > Squeak. > The talk will present the OLPC project, its current state of > development > in general and the progress on Etoys in particular. > > Bio > === > Dr. Bert Freudenberg got a PhD from the University of Magdeburg > (on non-photorealistic realtime rendering). He worked for impara GmbH > in Magdeburg developing software for children. Currently he is a > freelancing > developer working for Alan Kay's Viewpoints Research Institute on > porting the > Squeak and Etoys environment to the 100 dollar laptop. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > REGISTRATION > ------------ > > Please DO NOT reply to this e-mail! > Fill in the form below and sent it to choose AT glue.ch. Thanks. > > I want to register for the following event: ___ > > Name: ______________________________________ > > Email: ______________________________________ > > Company: ______________________________________ > > Address: ______________________________________ > > ZIP/City:______________________________________ > > Please check: > > [ ] CHOOSE member > [ ] JUGS member > [ ] SI member > [ ] Non-Member > > > Marcus > -- > Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch > http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker > > > Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker

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Re: [Etoys] Some comments on the olpc Etoys (interface)
by Eduardo Silva 03 Jul '07

03 Jul '07

> Eduardo, > > Thank you for the comments and suggestions! > > In various parts of Etoys, there is balloon help, > > which is really nice, especially the programming > > tiles. But I think the balloon help for the > > interface > > is many times is too verbose. > > Ah, yes. I sometimes agree with it. But, can you > give us some more > your thoughts on *why* verbose balloon help is not > preferable? I'm not sure. I just think that there are times when you are using an interface, and want a few tips to continue, others when you those tips aren't enough, and you want to fully understand it. So, a difference between interface tips (like desktop tooltips), and interface help. Perhaps there could be 2 help balloons? The first gives a short sentence explaining the function/button, the second only appears after some more time hovering over the object, and gives a bigger and more thorough explanation. I've had this idea, or the idea of more advanced bubbles from the game "The Movies", where the first bubble help allways showed basic information plus urgent ones, and if you waited, or clicked the bubble, the main bubble would have its own bubbles giving full info about the object. See these screenshots: As an aside, Scratch doesn't have tooltips for code blocks. Instead you can right click one, and choose Help, which opens up a view, with a piece of text, and illustrations right from the reference guide, explaining that specific code. Perhaps one of these would be a good idea for future versions or programs you will develop. On the other hand, I understand how better help can be good, especially how I see them work in KDE, a desktop I use. Preferences windows have a ? button, with which you click on the options and get a 3-4 line description of that option, which is really usefull. > > New Project Button -> balloon text should only say > > "New Project" instead of "Start a new project" > > > > Save Project icon -> balloon text should say "Save a > > Project. Hold down button to reveal additional > > publish > > options" . Take away the "Click here to", and "Hold > > down _this_ button". In both cases the kid knows > > that > > it is a clickable button (all activities have > > clickable buttons on top), and which button the > > balloon text is referring to (the one bellow his > > cursor). This looks like how people used web links > > many years ago, "click _this link_ to go to my > > homepage". > > That would be a good observation. Some of the help messages indeed any years old!1 > > Find Project icon -> "Find a Project. Hold down > > button > > to reveal additional options". > > I would think that these are more or less reasonable suggestions.1 > Once our native speaker colleague gets spare time, > this may happen. > > > Undo icon - When I click it once, it undoes, then > I > > click it again, and it Re-does? There should exist > > an > > Redo button next to this one instead. > > I'm not sure about this (having an extra button for redo), > especially because we don't have multi level redo. But it's confusing. The undo button won't act the same as the other activities in the olpc, and the redo function is the opposite of undo, so making it do-able using the undo button seems wrong to me. > > > Flags icon -> "Change Language" > > > > Neighbourhood and Close icons -> I thought these > > where > > in the top frame. Or will etoys replicate the > > outside > > frame? > > As of 466, there is no close icon in the "top frame". Share is not > in the "top frame". Ah, ok, I haven't played with recent builds of sugar. > > And the neighbourhood is way verbose. If the look > > for > > the badges are that unobvious that their function > > should be detailed here, then they probably need > > improvement? But won't they be XO icons with the > > friends colors. If so, kids by then will now what > > they > > mean. And extra help like "drag objects to give to > > your friend" could be in the badges themselves. > > These list shows the neighbors icons in their colors. The ideal > situation is that an accompanying document explains > what would really > happen, and then the verbose explanation becomes really unnecessary. > > Display icon -> "Select Display Mode", but not sure. > > > > For the interface, the text doesn't have to explain > > in > > detail every button's function, because most of them > > are not destructive, and so through experimenting > > kids > > will work them out. > > Or they simply ignore. Yes, but too much explaining, all the time, is also suffocating to use. It's like having a parent which, every the child asks about something in the world, he goes on for half an hour explaining (non-interactively) the ins and outs of it. After a while, you don't like to ask about things, even if you wanted to know them, because you don't care for another big lecture. Other times you may want a lecture. But etoys allways gives a pseudo-"lecture". > > > I've noticed that when you create a new window, its > > thumbnail is colored, then when you go inside, the > > background is gray, and then out and it remains > > gray. > > > > Having multi-colored backgrounds for new Etoys > > projects was something that I found nice in the > > past, > > and even made the environment fun too look at. It > > would probably be the same for kids. If the problem > > is > > contrast, then couldn't you choose less saturated > > colors, so they became light green, light > > blues,etc.? > > The first one probably can be and should be fixed > (i.e., the newly > created project thumbnail bear the background color > of the project). > In regards to Multi-colored backgrounds... that would certainly make > the documentation effort harder. (it would not be > a bad idea of > course). Why would it make documentation harder? Because it already exists and is using the gray backgrounds? Oh, but colored are much more fun! > > The color picker to choose a project's world color > > is > > very small and different than all the other windows > > (the button to "pin" the window is tiny, for > > example). > > Any color picker is really bad. It should be fixed. > > I think trash should be present in new Projects. > > Can you explain why? I usually delete the trashcan before publish a > project. Right, but I'm thinking about the beginning of a project. To be honest, I forget many times that you can delete an object on the cross halo button, but I think that you can assume that every kid starting a fresh project will want to discard/delete things inside of it, and having a trash already present (with the ability to be removed of course) just makes their task easier . (Then having to go get a trash object everytime they start a new project, or not even knowing about its existence) > > > When you colapse a morph with the circle halo, it > > stays collapsed on top of the sugar bar, and uses > > different button icons. > > There is an argument for removing the collapse handle altogether. > What do you think? I'm not sure. I think that the collapse button is good, a quick way of getting something out of the way. But I originally had some ideas about organization of the halos. For example, making the 4 corners be used by the most important and most used functions . I'll check my notes, and etoys as well, and tell what I think. > > In the script windows, there are two buttons which > > show some repeated tiles, the chest button and the > > menu button. The ones they repeat are: > > Self title, random number title, button down?, > > button > > up?, repeat title. > > > > The chest icon doesn't follow the style of the > > neighbours. > > That is exactly correct. The redesign of scriptor is on our list, > and making the header line similar to sugar-bar and > our supply bin > would be a good idea. You mean making the "toolbar" of scriptors black and white? I had thought about it, but was wondering if it would be too much a change, or if it would make the interface look too "somber". But I think it's maybe a pretty good idea. It makes the function of those bars a lot obvious (that they can be manipulated), since they follow the look of other toolbars in the system. If you think about it, having all the menus (from the halos for example), use that same look would also give the environment visual tidy-ness. But this could be tested. > > > Also, in the Object Catalog, in the Scripting > > category > > there is repeat, button up? and button down? > > Yes. Is that bad? Hm, I think so! It's unorganized :) Why did those specific code tiles where chosen? Because someone used them a lot, and wanted them there? Well, but some kids may want other often-used stuff in there. Let each of them decide, by making it clear that you can drag almost everything to the object catalog. Also, I think that it's a bit confusing initially, especially when learning about the environment. If things are duplicated around, it's harder to make a sense of it all (Object catalog has this stuff, Scriptor toolbar has this other stuff). You might say, harder to make a mental understanding of the organization of the environment and its tools when they aren't very tightly organized. > > Finally, It would be really handy if there was a > > button which sent to the trash all of the method > > tiles > > scattered on the "desktop". While I'm doing a > > project/etoy, it becomes tiresome to have to allways > > trash > > them, so I just drop them anywhere out of the way > and > > continue my thing. > > After a while I have a big mess of tiles on screen. I > > think kids may also behave like this in the beginning, > > when they are just messing with and trying new tiles > > (exploring?). But perhaps the Button tiles and > > "values" tiles could stay. > > I also see many kids delete a tile as soon as they drag out from a > scriptor. What do you think if the multi-selection > feature is easier > to use (such as, just click and drag the background > to initiate > multiple selections)? Ah yes, that would be good for all the objects. Also, perhaps I'm not thinking this fully, but would this make sense: Dragging a code title to the Object inspector (where all the draggable code is), would delete it? Sort of a "sending to its maker" thing. This is how Scratch works, besides being able to delete each one individually. It would also make it easier to dispose of code blocks, since the area to drag them to is bigger. (But could it also happen to loose codes unintentionally? Better test if before committing to it) > > Again, thank you for the comments! > > -- Yoshiki You're welcome! It is my "desire" to make etoys as streamlined as possible, that is, to make the interface as obvious and clear as possible, so as to make the real difficulty go into programming the etoys, and not into dealing with the interface (and with an eye towards the common sugar interface, make it behave as similar as possible to the other activities so it becomes more "natural" to use, through habit). Eduardo OH MY ... http://www.geocities.com/jobezone/index.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/

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[Etoys] error updating French translation
by Hilaire Fernandes 02 Jul '07

02 Jul '07

Hello, With the latest squeak-dev image, I try to load an updated fr.translation file from http://squeak.ofset.org/traduction/fr.translation, then I got the error message in the picture bellow. No error log is produced. Hilaire

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[Etoys] Loading SqueakLand project in olpc-image
by Hilaire Fernandes 02 Jul '07

02 Jul '07

Hello, OLPC image looks great with new tiles as Repeat and mathematical functions. Loading Squeakland project in olpc-image works great, even the French accent are getting through (For example this example http://superswiki.ofset.org:8000/super.46 from Pierre-André). However after loading the specific layout of OLPC image is lost and the Squeakland specific layout with flap prevail. It will be nice if it could be preserved as could reuse material Hilaire

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etoys-dev July 2007