There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
At Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:51:01 -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
That would be helpful. Thank you for the suggestion!
Janko, could you do that?
-- Yoshiki
On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 04:14:01PM -0800, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
At Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:51:01 -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
That would be helpful. Thank you for the suggestion!
Janko, could you do that?
I did it: http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
This line makes the rest of the text on the page unclear:
"Etoys 4 is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institute, who holds the copyright for Squeak and Etoys"
It states that VPRI holds the copyright to Squeak and you must go to VPRI to view the Squeak licensing terms. But, right after this sentence is work on the change to Apache 2.0 and the current licensing terms for Squeak. Confusing to me.
Perhaps a clarifying sentence regarding the licensing terms, and the legal difference between squeak and etoys could immediately follow this sentence so it's clear. It seems to say that etoys and squeak are bundled together. (they may be together for this particular release, but there are versions of squeak that have licensing terms different from etoys)
---- Also, the following is a bit unclear even though it's in the section of "Upcoming License Change":
"In 2006, VPRI began to collect "Distribution Agreements" for all contributors to Squeak since V1.1 up to V3.8, asking them to relicense their contributions, which were originally licensed under SqL, to the MIT license. This was a great effort on behalf of many and VPRI has 100s of signed documents agreeing to this."
It sounds like the work is done. Perhaps changing "was" to "is": "This is an ongoing effort on behalf of many authors and VPRI has 100's of signed documents converting to the new Apache 2.0 license.
Also, Maybe we should add a clarifying line, like:
"We have not yet converted Squeak to the Apache 2.0 license. Squeak is still under the Apple License as cited below. Our anticipated date of conversion is xx/xx/xx"
---
On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Matthew Fulmer tapplek@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 04:14:01PM -0800, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote:
At Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:51:01 -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
That would be helpful. Thank you for the suggestion!
Janko, could you do that?
I did it: http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
-- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/ _______________________________________________ Webteam mailing list Webteam@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webteam
Hi!
Matthew Fulmer wrote:
I did it: http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
"Quite a few people have visited this page looking for the Etoys license, due to continuing discussion of distribution of Etoys in a few Linux distributions. Etoys 4, as is distributed with Sugar and the One Laptop Per Child, is a derived, but separate project from squeak as it is distributed from this website.
Etoys 4 is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institute, who holds the copyright for Squeak and Etoys"
Ehm... that text is not CLEAR, let me propose some small changes:
"Quite a few people have visited this page looking for the Etoys license, due to continuing discussion of distribution of Etoys in a few Linux distributions. Etoys 4, as distributed with Sugar and the One Laptop Per Child, is a derived but separate project from Squeak, which is distributed from this website.
Etoys 4 is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institute, who holds the copyright for Etoys 4."
The devil is in the details. :) I changed only the 2nd and the last sentence. And I am NOT sure that VPRI "holds the copyright for Etoys 4" - can someone verify that?
regards, Göran
I strongly disagree and believe this would further confuse the issue. www.squeak.org and ftp.squeak.org represent the project that develops and distributes Squeak, but not Squeak Etoys. Any license information should be closely connected to the distribution point for a piece of software and vice versa. We do not distribute Squeak Etoys, why should we be maintaining licensing information for that piece of software?
Ken
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 16:51 -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
Further regarding the current SqueakLicense page:
In my opinion the content on this page should be replaced with the original 'Squeak License' since I believe there are links to this page expecting the actual Squeak License (the license by that name, not the license for a given version of Squeak).
Another page should be created that as succinctly as possible explains the current license status and secondarily the history and links as appropriate to seperate pages (either internally or externally) for each license. A link could be put prominently on the SqueakLicense page pointing to this new page if the reader is looking for overall licensing information. And any existing links on the site that mean to refer to license status and not explicitly the 'Squeak License' should be changed to point to the new page.
Ken
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 18:16 -0600, Ken Causey wrote:
I strongly disagree and believe this would further confuse the issue. www.squeak.org and ftp.squeak.org represent the project that develops and distributes Squeak, but not Squeak Etoys. Any license information should be closely connected to the distribution point for a piece of software and vice versa. We do not distribute Squeak Etoys, why should we be maintaining licensing information for that piece of software?
Ken
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 16:51 -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
Webteam mailing list Webteam@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webteam
I'm just checking Google stats and license page has currently the highest pagerank, therefore we really need to take care about its content.
About mentioning EToys license , isn't EToys a part of standard Squeak distribution? Or at least some code of it. If so, we need to at least mention the license of EToys and provide a link to its website.
From quick look at the license page and from history I'd conclude that it is under Apache license but further down the Apple license is states. But it is titled as Official Squeak license. Well, this is really confusing and need to be corrected ASAP.
We need a word from a Leadership, from Craig I suppose, about changing the exact license on that page?
Janko
Ken Causey wrote:
Further regarding the current SqueakLicense page:
In my opinion the content on this page should be replaced with the original 'Squeak License' since I believe there are links to this page expecting the actual Squeak License (the license by that name, not the license for a given version of Squeak).
Another page should be created that as succinctly as possible explains the current license status and secondarily the history and links as appropriate to seperate pages (either internally or externally) for each license. A link could be put prominently on the SqueakLicense page pointing to this new page if the reader is looking for overall licensing information. And any existing links on the site that mean to refer to license status and not explicitly the 'Squeak License' should be changed to point to the new page.
Ken
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 18:16 -0600, Ken Causey wrote:
I strongly disagree and believe this would further confuse the issue. www.squeak.org and ftp.squeak.org represent the project that develops and distributes Squeak, but not Squeak Etoys. Any license information should be closely connected to the distribution point for a piece of software and vice versa. We do not distribute Squeak Etoys, why should we be maintaining licensing information for that piece of software?
Ken
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 16:51 -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
Webteam mailing list Webteam@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webteam
Webteam mailing list Webteam@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webteam
On Sat, 2008-11-08 at 16:55 +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote:
I'm just checking Google stats and license page has currently the highest pagerank, therefore we really need to take care about its content.
About mentioning EToys license , isn't EToys a part of standard Squeak distribution? Or at least some code of it. If so, we need to at least mention the license of EToys and provide a link to its website.
No, the problem here is one shared by many not familiar with Squeak in depth. We are refering to two closely related but separate things by the name 'eToys'. One is a collection of classes and collateral data that is, in some form, distributed as part of the current Squeak core releases. The second, and the one relevant here, is a distribution of Squeak with modifications and additions to the eToys software and setup for educational purposes. This is distributed via squeakland.org and perhaps other locations.
From quick look at the license page and from history I'd conclude that it is under Apache license but further down the Apple license is states. But it is titled as Official Squeak license. Well, this is really confusing and need to be corrected ASAP.
We need a word from a Leadership, from Craig I suppose, about changing the exact license on that page?
Janko
Ken Causey wrote:
Further regarding the current SqueakLicense page:
In my opinion the content on this page should be replaced with the original 'Squeak License' since I believe there are links to this page expecting the actual Squeak License (the license by that name, not the license for a given version of Squeak).
Another page should be created that as succinctly as possible explains the current license status and secondarily the history and links as appropriate to seperate pages (either internally or externally) for each license. A link could be put prominently on the SqueakLicense page pointing to this new page if the reader is looking for overall licensing information. And any existing links on the site that mean to refer to license status and not explicitly the 'Squeak License' should be changed to point to the new page.
Ken
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 18:16 -0600, Ken Causey wrote:
I strongly disagree and believe this would further confuse the issue. www.squeak.org and ftp.squeak.org represent the project that develops and distributes Squeak, but not Squeak Etoys. Any license information should be closely connected to the distribution point for a piece of software and vice versa. We do not distribute Squeak Etoys, why should we be maintaining licensing information for that piece of software?
Ken
On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 16:51 -0700, Matthew Fulmer wrote:
There is ongoing discussion about including etoys in debian, fedora, and ubuntu. Several people have looked at
http://squeak.org/SqueakLicense/
and are confused, as that license is not the MIT/Apache license that we are advertising etoys to be available under. For the latest discussion, see the emails with the subject "Sugar in Edubuntu":
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-November/thread.html
I would like to add the following notice to the top of the page:
Notice regarding Etoys
Etoys 4, a product derived from Squeak and distributed with Sugarhttp://sugarlabs.org and the One Laptop Per Childhttp://laptop.org, is no longer distributed under the license listed on this page. Its licensing terms are described at Viewpoints Research Institutehttp://www.vpri.org/vp_wiki, the copyright holder for Squeak and Etoys
Webteam mailing list Webteam@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webteam
Webteam mailing list Webteam@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/webteam
webteam@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Brad Fuller -
Göran Krampe -
Janko Mivšek -
Ken Causey -
Matthew Fulmer -
Yoshiki Ohshima