Hi,
just to be clear. When we talk about MTVM, we talk about a MT-FFI, *not* a MTVM in general. In general, a “common” approach to MT cannot be applied in Pharo (or Smalltalk in general) and to get a VM *and* an image working properly is an effort that makes what I called massive some mails above like a small stone compared to a mountain.
Said that:
- What is in plans is MT-FFI, and that will be available eventually. - There is an approach I want to re-work, that would allow us profit of multicores without going multithread: the “hydra” experiment made some years ago by Igor creates a good basis to this. But is also a lot of of work (but a lot less than a complete MT), and not a real priority for now… I hope to resume work on that area some day… just not anytime soon.
Esteban
On 18 Oct 2015, at 17:56, Ben Coman btc@openInWorld.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 2:25 AM, Robert Withers robert.w.withers@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, exactly. I do realize I was consciously changing that effort synchronization order.
I see 64-bit being higher priority than multi-threaded for the wider community. Dealing with larger in-Image data opens the door to more corporate project/funding opportunities. Also simplifying the install on modern Linux platforms without requiring additional 386 libraries will help acceptance there.
It is my humble opinion, without really knowing, that 64-bit would have to be redone after the MTVM completes.
I would assume it was the other way around. Presuming that Eliot has sponsors influencing his priorities, it seems given that 64-bits will happen first. I would guess any MTVM development on the old vm would then need to be reworked.
I was doing so with the idea in mind that I and others might dig into working on the VM, for threading support, while Eliot maintains focus on 64-bits...a tall order, I know.
The usual downside of splitting resources applies. There are not that many "others" and maybe they would be drawn away from helping with the 64-bit vm. If the 64-bit vm goes slower for lack of resources then your footing for MTVM will shifting for a longer time. You may ultimately get where you want to go faster by helping with the 64-bit vm. The rapport built with other vm devs from working on 64-bit might could then be applied to MTVM. (Of course, its your free time, so you should pursue what interests you.)
I was barely familiar with the VM, slang, interpreter, it years ago... I'm totally unfamiliar with cog.
The experience you gain from working beside Esteban and Eliot on 64-bit Cog/Spur could then be applied to a MTVM.
btw, you may find these threads interesting...
- http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-dev_lists.pharo.org/2015-April/108648...
- http://forum.world.st/Copy-on-write-for-a-multithreaded-VM-td4837905.html
cheers -ben
I believe another item on that list ought to be modernizing slang. So many big items!
Robert
On 10/16/2015 12:48 PM, Stephan Eggermont wrote:
On 16-10-15 14:05, Robert Withers wrote:
Because of that assumption I've made and without the responsibilities you have, Esteban, but recognizing modernizing NB to FFI, my desired list is:
I would expect the least total effort to be needed by keeping the work of Esteban and Eliot as much as possible aligned. That is what Esteban's list achieves.
Stephan